Speaker 1
00:00
I have to joke that I wasn’t paying attention, could you do it again? But now I’m like, there are too many names: Amangasit, Hempstead, Hotter, C.O. Wongtaw, Pukapsi, Sufid. No, don’t confuse me. Sorry.
Speaker 1
00:13
Are you kidding me? I was just thinking of dinner. Now? I’m thinking of lunch. I’m eating. Yeah, Jerry’s having his chicken. Hey. Pack your body bags. We’re going on a Slaycation. These are murders and mysterious deaths that happen while you’re on vacation.
Speaker 1
00:42
I am your co-host, Adam Techstavis. And as always, I’m joined by my lovely wife. Hi, Cam.
Speaker 2
00:56
Hi, honey.
Speaker 1
00:58
Hello, Jerry. And, of course, my buddy, my business partner, Jerry Culber. Our buddy.
Speaker 2
01:00
Thank you for clarifying. Yes, our buddy. Okay, right.
Speaker 1
01:03
Tim and I are a unit. Anyway, we’re back. We did have to take a little break last week. And we missed you.
Speaker 2
01:09
Yes, we absolutely missed you. We missed recording.
Speaker 1
01:13
And here’s the funny thing. I was so excited to come into the studio today to record. And I almost didn’t make it because we just… Well, first of all, we just moved into a new apartment. And we’ll get into some of the moving hell in a second. But literally, this just happened within the last hour.
Speaker 1
01:29
The super was painting the front stairs. So he asked us if we would go down into the basement and then up through a cellar door that has these crazy concrete steps. There’s like four of them. And I was carrying some trash, bringing down some trash from the apartment.
Speaker 1
01:46
And we were like, okay, so we go downstairs. And as I’m going up the steps, I didn’t realize that the height of the first step to the second step is about two inches higher than all the other steps. So as I’m going up, I’m just in the rhythm of my foot going up.
Speaker 1
02:02
And then I hit that last step. And it’s higher. And I stumble forward. And I smash my hand, my left hand, into the ground. And I feel pain in my pinky finger. Let me just say it looked exactly how it sounded.
Speaker 1
02:14
And I’m like, ow. And then the guy’s like, hey, are you okay? And Kim’s behind me. And she’s like, are you all right? And I hold up my hand. And my pinky is jutting off. It was crazy looking.
Speaker 2
02:26
A little crazy looking.
Speaker 3
02:28
No, and this just happened. This was like moments ago. Yes, within the hour. How are you not in so much pain that we have to take you somewhere to have something done?
Speaker 1
02:40
I’m hopped up to do the show. I’ve had 17 Advil. I just did a shot of Mezcal.
Speaker 2
02:54
Oh, so you’re fine.
Speaker 1
02:56
My fingers are taped together. You’re healed. And here’s the craziest part, okay? And I’m gonna take a picture of the shirt I’m wearing. And we’ll post it on our Facebook and Slick Haters Only. I’m wearing a shirt that’s basically a Ouija board. It’s a concert T-shirt for an artist that I like who did a shirt as a Ouija board. The last time I wore this shirt was when I was in Prospect Park in Brooklyn playing frisbee with my friend and tore my quad tendon and had to be rushed to the hospital.
Speaker 2
03:17
Can we burn the shirt now?
Speaker 2
03:21
Please. So who is the shirt? What’s the artist?
Speaker 1
03:24
It’s a guy named Dax Riggs. He does solo stuff. He’s done a bunch of indie bands. He was in a band called Dead Boy and the Elephant Man. Here’s the thing, I’ve never worn this shirt again.
Speaker 1
03:36
I tore my quad tendon playing Frisbee in the park. I was running after a Frisbee. I hit a mud patch. My legs scooted out in a crazy direction. My quad tendon tore. It was the worst injury I’ve ever had.
Speaker 1
03:48
I was off my feet for months. Jerry, you came to the hospital.
Speaker 3
04:01
Yeah, you had to have surgery.
Speaker 1
04:03
That’s right. I couldn’t walk. I got that cold. Yeah, it was during the pandemic. I had to be like medevaced out of the…
Speaker 2
04:05
Park.
Speaker 1
04:07
Yeah, he could not get up on his own power. It was like if my foot, my leg wasn’t connected anymore.
Speaker 2
04:11
Now, you’re a somewhat superstitious person.
Speaker 1
04:16
I am superstitious. And so did you not wear this shirt again because you were associating it with…
Speaker 3
04:27
Yes, I will tell you my mother would have seen that shirt and would have said never wear that shirt again. When we were kids and somebody gifted us a Ouija board, she went crazy.
Speaker 3
04:33
She was like, this cannot be in the house. You would start an exorcism, burn it in flames, and, you know, the sun and the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1
04:43
The fact it’s a Ouija board shirt then I wore it and got hurt and then this morning I picked it up and I said, you know what? I want to break the curse. I said, listen, the day I got hurt I was also wearing pants and socks and sneakers—none of that gets attributed to the accident.
Speaker 1
05:00
So why is it the shirt? Why should the shirt get all the blame? So I put the shirt on. I’m going to break the curse.
Speaker 3
05:08
I’m raised to know better. Why did I stop that?
Speaker 1
05:11
Because I broke my finger. And now I’m going to destroy this.
Speaker 2
05:18
Oh my God, this shirt. I’m not superstitious, but I am now. This shirt is bad luck, dude. I don’t even like it that it’s in here. Do we have, could you, can you just do this? I should have brought a shirt.
Speaker 2
05:29
Is it okay if he’s shirtless? Because I want to rip the shirt off you and burn it right now? It’s crazy. Like, we had to actually do a ritual with the Ouija board that my sister and I had growing up. Like, Bonnie and her friends were doing stuff with the Ouija board that got really, really dark.
Speaker 2
05:45
Like, some bad juju. And we had to do a whole ritual to get rid of this board. And now you’re—Kim, you seem like you know.
Speaker 3
05:57
Yes, but here’s the thing. Our daughter and I were walking through the neighborhood, and somebody was throwing out a Ouija board. There was a Ouija board game in the box set, and we took it home. Kim went crazy and said we had to throw it out. We pretended to throw it out.
Speaker 1
06:10
We hid it under our daughter’s bed, and Kim found it. It went crazy again. Don’t you remember?
Speaker 2
06:24
Yes. Oh my God. And we’re like, it’s a game. It’s Parker Brothers. You buy it in the store. It’s in Toys R Us.
Speaker 2
06:30
Parker Brothers is another sponsor who will not be advertising on our show. Or maybe they will because it proves that the Ouija board is real.
Speaker 1
06:34
I can’t believe this just happened, and after the show, I’m probably going to go to urgent care.
Speaker 2
06:38
Oh my God. Now, I will tell you, I did complete my CPR first aid certification this week.
Speaker 2
06:46
Well, congratulations. That’s timely. Yeah. They did not teach me how to deal with broken fingers. That’s not within my training.
Speaker 2
06:50
But if you become overwhelmed and pass out, I can check you. And if needed, I can deliver CPR.
Speaker 1
06:56
Okay. I know that there’s a thing about people. Well, I think I made that joke once, that people who learn CPR just always want to do CPR. So any injury, you’re trying to do CPR.
Speaker 2
07:05
The reason Brian and I have wanted to get certified for first aid for over a decade. It’s been on our to-do list. We almost did it when Megan from Brain Games was getting certified to be a set medic, but she was going through a much more involved, like, the full course. We just wanted the basic training.
Speaker 2
07:23
The reason we did it now is not only because we wanted to, but my mother was listening to the episode where you made the joke about people who learned CPR just wanting to do CPR. She called me and said we should all stop joking about CPR and get certified because it’s important. So, you know what?
Speaker 2
07:41
We have been wanting to do it for a while, but that joke is what led us to actually signing up for it. We did four or five hours of online study and then a two-hour in-person course, but yeah, it’s a good skill.
Speaker 2
07:55
It is a good thing because now if someone’s choking or, you know, having a cardiac arrest, we can actually provide care until EMS gets there.
Speaker 1
08:03
Jerry, get off me. It’s my finger.
Speaker 2
08:06
I am so ready to give you mouth-to-mouth. Anyway, so that was an unplanned opening. I can’t believe that just happened. And more importantly, that it’s the same shirt.
Speaker 2
08:17
And you are a superstitious person. You’re a guy who like caresses the plane before we get on it.
Speaker 1
08:23
There goes that, like, getting rid of superstition. There goes that. I am back on the team full-throat.
Speaker 2
08:29
I am now supportive of you, too.
Speaker 1
08:32
It’s nuts. Kim and I got halfway to the studio when I stopped and said, “The shirt!” and she goes, “Holy shit.” That’s right. It didn’t even dawn on us immediately.
Speaker 2
08:44
And I have not seen the shirt in forever. No, no, I didn’t know that was the shirt you were wearing when you got injured in the park.
Speaker 2
08:53
Does it say anything on the shirt about what the Ouija is? Like, does it say, like, “Break Adam’s finger” or something?
Speaker 1
08:56
No, it’s got the name of the artist at the top, and then it’s got a Ouija board underneath. Anyway, one other thing I wanted to talk about before we start. It’s about me? No, no, actually, no, it’s about all of us, but especially Kim.
Speaker 1
09:12
Can we talk about what people thought we looked like?
Speaker 2
09:15
Oh my God, that is hilarious. You know, everybody is like, they had people like, okay, so I posted a picture of the three of us on our Facebook page and our Slaycation Haters Only.
Speaker 1
09:28
And people were like, “Oh my God, now we get to see what these guys look like.” But they were especially blown away by what Kim looked like. It did not match anybody’s thought of what Kim, you know, the sound of Kim to what Kim looks like. It did not match at all.
Speaker 2
09:42
It’s so funny because, I mean, I’ve known Kim for so long, to me, Kim’s voice and what she looks like, it doesn’t seem like a disconnect to me.
Speaker 1
09:53
What did people think she looked like? Kim, what did they think you looked like?
Speaker 3
09:56
Exactly. Who was that character on SNL? There was that?
Speaker 2
10:00
Yeah, it was Mike Myers as the Coffee Talk lady.
Speaker 1
10:07
Oh my God. Coffee Talk with Linda Richmond.
Speaker 2
10:15
It’s Bob Wuh. It’s like butter.
Speaker 1
10:21
I guess you can say it’s like butter. It’s like butter.
Speaker 2
10:25
I don’t think I can.
Speaker 1
10:29
Verklempt. Verklempt. Verklempt. Verklempt.
Speaker 2
10:36
That scared me a little bit, all of my ancestors. 1940s, just crazy.
Speaker 1
10:45
They were saying, they were saying white Jewish lady from Long Island, who now apparently yells like a…
Speaker 2
10:55
And then I will say, so they thought she was a white Jewish lady from Long Island. That’s what they thought.
Speaker 1
11:00
I was thinking, you know what? They thought she was Roz from our Hong Kong episode.
Speaker 2
11:07
So Roz is a white lady who lives on the Upper West or Upper East Side. But she’s, I don’t know what she sounds like, but from the pictures of Roz, I think she would sound a little like Kim.
Speaker 2
11:20
Yeah. Get the box cutter. Who wants wine? We need to get Roz as a guest on the show. She’s in New York. We might.
Speaker 1
11:27
But I was just like, congrats, Kim. You spent your life trying to lose the Black woman from the Bronx accent, and then you turned it into Amy Fisher.
Speaker 3
11:36
Amy Fisher. Oh my God. Wow.
Speaker 1
11:41
So anyway, all right, we got broken fingers. We got Roz. We’ve got Kim from Long Island. Kim, does…
Speaker 2
11:48
How does that land for you that people think you’re a white Jewish lady from Long Island?
Speaker 3
11:55
Intrigued by it. It’s interesting that people sort of conjure up their own images of the face that they connect to the voice. It kind of tickles me when I see the faces.
Speaker 1
12:12
We should have had a “Draw Kim” contest. Oh my God.
Speaker 3
12:15
Imagine. That would be funny. Well, that is just hilarious.
Speaker 2
12:21
We still could.
Speaker 3
12:22
Look, new people come to the show. I’m sure they’re going to be wondering the same thing, right?
Speaker 1
12:27
Well, you can see what we look like. You’ll see my Ouija board shirt, and we’ll take some pictures so you can see what we look like. But yeah, anyway, do you have anything else? Did you wanna—on this topic?
Speaker 1
12:39
No, no, no, on anything before we start. I have a review.
Speaker 2
12:45
I have a review, too.
Speaker 1
12:46
Our listeners really do love hearing their reviews and hearing their name. They really like the shout-outs.
Speaker 2
12:52
This one made me laugh. So this is from Booville from last week. Five stars: Laugh Out Loud Storytelling. I’ve been here since the beginning with y’all, and I have to say, it keeps getting better and funnier with every episode.
Speaker 2
13:07
I’ve actually gotten in trouble at work for laughing out loud at something Adam said. Oh, that made me laugh. Kim, I don’t understand your fondness for yarn. She said, “I don’t understand it.”
Speaker 1
13:18
Fondness for yarn. Me neither.
Speaker 2
13:21
But your descriptions of the destinations almost make me want to go on vacation. Well. Jerry, you’re very tolerable. Alright. I love this review.
Speaker 1
13:35
Yeah, that’s great.
Speaker 1
13:35
Alright, I feel like we’ve done a lot of chit-chatting. Let’s get into it. Kimmy, where are we slaycating today?
Speaker 3
13:44
Today, our slaycating expedition takes place in France, in the foothills of the French Alps, located near the picturesque and clear waters of Lake Annecy. The scenic campsites of Seythenex offer a serene and beautiful backdrop to any camping experience, providing campers the opportunity to explore nature, gorgeous mountain views, hiking and biking trails, rock climbing, paragliding, and whitewater rafting.
Speaker 1
14:17
Alright, so it’s a campsite at the base of the French Alps near a lake.
Speaker 2
14:25
Yes. What could go wrong? It sounds fantastic.
Speaker 2
14:25
It sounds awesome. It’s like a postcard of where you’d want to go on vacation.
Speaker 1
14:30
And it’s a vacation spot, or is it more like the local secret?
Speaker 3
14:34
Tourists do flock there.
Speaker 2
14:38
OK. Yeah, it seems like it’s the kind of place you go if you want to do outdoorsy stuff, like the equivalent of going to a national park. I was going to say in the States.
Speaker 1
14:45
Alright, so then what happens?
Speaker 3
14:48
Who does it happen to? So, as summer was coming to a close and business in Geneva, Switzerland, beckoned, this was the perfect excuse for Said Al Halil, 50, to gather his family and go on a last-minute, fun-filled getaway to France.
Speaker 1
15:15
Saeed from Switzerland.
Speaker 3
15:17
Well, not from Switzerland. He had business in Switzerland. He’s actually from the UK.
Speaker 2
15:23
Can I just— I actually meant to ask you this logistics question before. So, caravan seems like it’s their term for RV, right? So we should mention that. I thought you meant like a Dodge Caravan.
Speaker 3
15:34
Although the caravan is more of a thing that they hook up to the back of your vehicle. It’s sort of like a trailer.
Speaker 2
15:40
Did they have the caravan in Switzerland, or did they bring it? Like, I was confused as to, did they rent it? Like, I didn’t know.
Speaker 3
15:50
No, no. It was actually, it was a brand new one. As an engineer, he had a fascination with building these types of things and had actually restored a caravan at one point.
Speaker 2
16:04
But how did he get it from—
Speaker 3
16:06
He lived in the UK.
Speaker 2
16:16
So they took a ferry, I guess?
Speaker 3
16:18
Yes. How many people? It was Said’s wife, Iqbal, their two daughters, Zainab and Zeena, and Grandma, Iqbal’s mother, Sahulia. So, she joined the family, so they all loaded up the BMW. In the UK?
Speaker 2
16:40
So they started in the UK?
Speaker 3
16:42
Yes, yes.
Speaker 3
16:52
Now, you’re probably thinking because the mom does live in Switzerland, but the origin of the trip took place in the UK.
Speaker 1
17:01
Okay, so they’re in the UK. They buy this caravan, which is like a trailer-type thing.
Speaker 3
17:09
Right. And grandma joined them on this outing. The girls had actually nicknamed the caravan. They had nicknamed it Spotty.
Speaker 1
17:20
Like the Wi-Fi.
Speaker 3
17:22
Yes. And they would take off from their home in Claygate, Surrey in the UK and head towards a ferry which would bring them to France. The family enjoyed the last days of August 2012 road-tripping through the countryside of the village of Chevaline, stopping to enjoy the sights along the way and enjoy nature.
Speaker 3
17:54
Said loved France. This was one of his favorite places. The family had enjoyed previous excursions to the French Alps, and it always provided a nice, reliable, and quick getaway for the family.
Speaker 1
18:09
So they’d been to this place before?
Speaker 3
18:09
Yes. This was something that they had done before.
Speaker 1
18:13
Is he Middle Eastern?
Speaker 3
18:18
He’s Iraqi. Born in Iraq, but he’s a British citizen. His wife is—
Speaker 1
18:21
—British?
Speaker 3
18:26
No, her mother is in Switzerland.
Speaker 1
18:26
Grandma is his mother.
Speaker 3
18:26
Her mom.
Speaker 1
18:26
Her mom.
Speaker 3
18:26
Okay.
Speaker 3
18:43
On September 5th, 2012, after another camping feat, they commenced on the journey just after 1 p.m., stopping shortly at the village of Darshad, and then continuing on to the mountains of Chevaline.
Speaker 3
18:58
It was the little girl Zainab’s turn to choose what they wanted to do that day. Her dad had asked if she wanted to go shopping in town or go on a hike in the woods.
Speaker 1
19:01
You choose what to do, but here there are two choices.
Speaker 3
19:01
Why not? It’s always good to have a choice. So, the little girl chose to hike in the woods.
Speaker 1
19:11
Not our daughter.
Speaker 3
19:14
That is true. And then we’re still alive.
Speaker 2
19:18
Hey, you raised a city kid.
Speaker 3
19:20
I don’t know, maybe this was a seven-year-old little girl. Maybe she was seven.
Speaker 1
19:26
For a hike at the base of the French Alps? Okay, so they’re going to go hiking. They pull up and they get out of the car. She gets out of the car with her father. How old are the parents?
Speaker 3
19:31
They’re in their 50s. He’s 50; the mom is 47. And the kids are 7 and 4. And grandma is in her 70s, I think 74.
Speaker 2
19:55
Yeah, Zainab is 4; she’s the little one. And Zainab is the one who got to choose today.
Speaker 3
20:02
So they had pulled up, and Zainab and her dad had gotten out of the car, I think it was to look at a map that was at the site and see what trails were there.
Speaker 2
20:13
This is around 3:45 in the afternoon.
Speaker 3
20:18
And as they’re doing that, suddenly, gunshots ring out. In an instant, Said is shouting at the top of his lungs to his daughter to get back in the car. And they made a mad dash back to the vehicle.
Speaker 3
20:36
The mom and her other daughter and the mother-in-law were still in the BMW, likely frozen in complete horror. So they’re in the car, not the caravan. And they make their way to the car.
Speaker 3
21:04
Cut to a former Royal Air Force officer who was just in the area riding his bike. He happens upon the scene. As he is approaching, he notices a bike lying in the road and then his gaze happens upon a very seriously injured Zainab.
Speaker 3
21:28
He sees the little girl stumbling around, bleeding, and in obvious pain and distress. He jumps into action and places the girl in what they call a recovery position. Do you know what it is?
Speaker 2
21:51
Just learned this. Yes, the recovery position is where you’re placed on your side with one arm up to stabilize you and both knees bent to stabilize the body. It’s a position used if you’re not needing CPR but are badly injured.
Speaker 3
22:10
Wow, this couldn’t have come at a better time.
Speaker 1
22:14
I know, right? How helpful.
Speaker 2
22:14
Does it work for fingers? Oh, did I mention that I snapped my finger back into position?
Speaker 1
22:18
Oh God, you did not mention that.
Speaker 2
22:20
You know, I told you, we started talking, and then I realized my finger was at this right angle, so I snapped it back into position and now it’s taped to the other finger.
Speaker 1
22:30
But I don’t want to make this about me. Well, listen, so—
Speaker 2
22:33
So, the guy Kim is talking about, Brett Martin, the former British officer who came upon the scene, this is only about 3:48 p.m., so three minutes after the shots had started happening.
Speaker 2
22:45
He comes upon the scene, as Kim said, and sees Zainab bleeding and stumbling around. He sees the car on the side of the road, so he assumes—
Speaker 3
22:55
He doesn’t immediately recognize the scene as anything nefarious.
Speaker 2
23:01
He thought it was a car accident.
Speaker 1
23:02
So, but there’s a girl stumbling and her family is inside the car, right?
Speaker 2
23:11
Well, it was a very chaotic scene, and that’s the thing. Now, Brett Martin had come upon the scene, they suspect, just mere moments after this whole thing had gone down. It was sheer luck that he happened to be there.
Speaker 3
23:25
Yes. And he had noted the bike in the road. He also saw a man not far away lying on the road.
Speaker 2
23:39
If you came upon the scene, it looked like there was an accident where a car had hit a bike, and a little girl had gotten out of the car, and then there was a bike and a man on the ground. So your first assumption would be—
Speaker 1
23:52
Or a man and a girl are riding a bike together and got hit.
Speaker 2
23:57
But his assessment was there’s been a horrible car accident.
Speaker 1
24:00
Sure. Oh, is Saeed the guy in the road?
Speaker 3
24:04
No, the man in the road was a man by the name of Sylvain Moire, a Frenchman. Brett had noticed that the man was deceased. He gauged from the position of the bike that it belonged to Sylvain Moire, whom Brett had recognized because they had passed each other while biking on this road.
Speaker 1
24:36
Gotcha. Okay.
Speaker 2
24:39
So he recognized him and thought, “That’s right.”
Speaker 3
24:42
Just as, you know, I figured there was an accident.
Speaker 1
24:48
Okay, so just to recap, so I have it straight and anyone listening is not confused. So basically, the father and one of the daughters got out of the car to look at a map or something outside. Gunshots ring out, and they run back to the car, but apparently, the girl didn’t make it.
Speaker 1
25:06
She may or may not have gotten shot. It sounds like she’s hurt in some way. The father, the mother-in-law, the wife, and the other daughter are all in the car.
Speaker 1
25:16
Right. Okay, then you’ve got this Royal Air Force guy who happens upon the scene. Correct. He sees a hurt girl and a dead guy.
Speaker 1
25:28
Correct. In the road and a bike in the road. Yeah. Okay. That’s where we’re at. This is crazy. Sounds like a great opening scene to a movie. Right. Now what happens?
Speaker 3
25:37
So, after reviewing the situation, Brett noted that the car was still running and the wheel was spinning. The car was stuck in the road. He made his way over to the vehicle and noted that the BMW had been riddled with bullets.
Speaker 3
26:01
And it was at this time that he noted all the occupants in the vehicle had been shot.
Speaker 2
26:19
Yeah, it was too remote to get a cell signal.
Speaker 3
26:21
So he knew he had to get help. He was trying to figure out what to do with the injured child, but then decided he had to jump on his bike to get help. En route, Brett encountered a group of French hikers and explained that something had happened and they needed to get emergency personnel on the scene.
Speaker 3
26:49
The hikers were able to contact paramedics and law enforcement.
Speaker 1
26:57
Meanwhile, there’s a shooter on the loose.
Speaker 2
27:07
We didn’t know at this point. He saw that they’d all been shot. Some of the adults had been shot in the head.
Speaker 1
27:17
So nobody was moving or speaking?
Speaker 2
27:20
No, he assumed they were all deceased.
Speaker 3
27:23
So, the paramedics did arrive. Did you go back?
Speaker 1
27:27
The Air Force guy?
Speaker 2
27:29
Yes, he went back to help the girl until the paramedics arrived.
Speaker 3
27:35
Paramedics arrived, and all the car’s occupants were pronounced dead at the scene. The other little girl was nowhere to be found.
Speaker 1
27:45
So there’s one girl hurt and one girl missing.
Speaker 2
27:49
The situation is, the three adults from the family are dead, the guy on the bicycle is dead, and Zainab is alive but barely. She’s not able to tell them much because she has to be airlifted to a hospital. They didn’t even know immediately that there was another girl.
Speaker 3
28:31
Because no one knew about the missing girl yet.
Speaker 2
28:38
And this poor child, Zainab… The one that’s hurt is the seven-year-old?
Speaker 3
28:57
Yes, and the four-year-old is missing. Zainab, this poor child had been shot and viciously beaten about the head, resulting in a concussion, traumatic brain injury, and a fracture to her orbital bones.
Speaker 3
29:09
She was put in a medically induced coma upon being airlifted and received at the hospital.
Speaker 2
29:17
She was shot in the shoulder, and then the attacker hit her in the head with the gun.
Speaker 1
29:28
You know, I was under the impression that it was like a sniper situation. Now it sounds like this psychopath was right there with them, close enough to cause such random violence.
Speaker 1
29:34
Alright, well, you will tell me, right after this quick break and a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 4
29:34
Most people aren’t interested in just one topic.
Speaker 5
29:36
Don’t settle for a podcast about just one subject. That rhymed.
Speaker 6
29:40
Greetings. We’re Technically a Conversation, a podcast for curious people by curious people.
Speaker 4
29:46
On our podcast, we do things just a little bit differently.
Speaker 5
29:48
Every week, we share a new topic, and the other hosts have no idea what the topic will be. Our topics are all over the place.
Speaker 6
29:55
From light and funny to dark and sometimes spooky.
Speaker 4
29:59
We’ve covered everything from true crime, historical events and people, the supernatural and the occult.
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30:06
Urban legends and folklore.
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30:06
My favorite.
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30:07
No matter what we cover, we try to make the episodes interesting and funny.
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30:16
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30:16
Let me tell you what I told our lawyer. Come here so I can show you how far I can legally stick my high-heeled boot up your—
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30:22
Check us out at TechnicallyAConversation.com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 6
30:29
Technically a Conversation.
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30:31
We’re like a lifestyle brand.
Speaker 4
30:31
Yeah.
Speaker 6
30:34
Hi, I’m Matt Harris. Seton Tucker and I host the podcast Impact of Influence, which for two years covered in depth, Alex Murdaugh, who was eventually convicted in 2023 of murdering his wife Maggie and son Paul.
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30:47
That story continues to evolve, and we will cover that. Plus, we will tell you stories of other true crime events that have happened in the South. Please join us on Impact of Influence and give us a follow on the Impact of Influence Facebook page.
Speaker 1
31:04
And we’re back. Wow, this is really strange.
Speaker 2
31:08
It’s only strange because it’s unprecedented for this area. This doesn’t happen. This is not an area where violent crimes occur.
Speaker 3
31:20
Until this, there was no report of anything even remotely violent happening here before. First time for everything, so yes, it was a real shock and a very unusual situation.
Speaker 1
31:39
But again, there’s a missing girl, and nobody even knows.
Speaker 3
31:42
At this point, nobody’s even aware that there’s a missing child. That is until the investigators began questioning the campers that were there.
Speaker 2
31:57
Who said, “Oh yeah, there were two daughters.” Because this is such a bizarre situation, the investigators have cordoned off the whole area. They’re looking for a shooter, but they’re also puzzled by the whole situation—why was this entire family gunned down?
Speaker 2
32:16
Why was this bicyclist gunned down? So they’re taking extra care with the whole crime scene, being very meticulous.
Speaker 3
32:26
In fact, they would not even touch the vehicle until forensics arrived.
Speaker 2
32:32
Because they don’t have a real forensics unit in this area of the Swiss Alps. This kind of thing doesn’t happen. So they said, “Don’t touch the car.” They noted where all the bullets were; there were 21 bullet casings on the ground.
Speaker 1
32:45
So I will say it’s refreshing to finally have a competent crime scene because there are so many of these cases we cover where—
Speaker 2
32:53
They’re relatively competent. They’re trying to do the right thing. This isn’t a case where the local police are like, “We got this,” even though they’ve never done anything like this before.
Speaker 2
33:03
They understood the gravity of the situation and that it was a big deal. Kim, what was it, about eight hours later?
Speaker 3
33:14
Eight hours before forensics arrived on the scene. By this point, investigators, having understood through interviews that there was another child, started to wonder if this was a kidnapping or if the child had fled into the woods.
Speaker 3
33:36
There was a lot of uncertainty. Forensics arrived around midnight, approximately eight hours after the police and paramedics were on the scene. They went into the vehicle and discovered four-year-old Zena unharmed, cowering under her dead mother’s skirt, where she had stayed hidden, likely paralyzed with fear for that whole eight hours.
Speaker 3
34:15
She did not move. Can you imagine? Yeah, that’s pretty intense. Of course, traumatized, yes, but physically unharmed. That is insane. Robbery had been ruled out, as it was noted that the occupants were still in possession of their phones, wallets, and a digital camera.
Speaker 3
34:39
A helicopter search had commenced to see if they could find any leads on the perpetrator of this shooting. Do they think it was one person or more than one person?
Speaker 2
34:58
I don’t think they made an assumption. I mean, there was—
Speaker 3
35:00
There was only a gunshot from one gun.
Speaker 2
35:04
Right, the bullets were all from a very specific gun. It was actually quite an unusual gun—a Luger P08 semi-automatic pistol.
Speaker 3
35:19
A Swiss model service pistol that had been a standard issue to members of the Swiss Army in the 1920s and 30s. So the gun was what we might say antiquated.
Speaker 2
35:36
Wait, yeah, this was like— And that old. Yeah. Also—
Speaker 1
35:39
That old piece of vernacular. I just thought the Swiss Army had those knives. I thought they’d all be corkscrewed and—
Speaker 2
35:46
I also have guns.
Speaker 1
35:48
Huh, they had guns? I didn’t even know if there was still a Swiss army.
Speaker 2
35:58
But this is a gun that was in use in like World War I and World War II.
Speaker 1
35:58
So it’s crazy.
Speaker 3
35:59
Yes, it’s a semi-automatic pistol and can reportedly fire almost 50 rounds in a little over 30 seconds.
Speaker 1
36:11
I can’t believe Americans aren’t lining up to get that.
Speaker 2
36:17
Well, they are now.
Speaker 3
36:21
The interesting thing about this weapon is it’s considered unusual because it’s old and more a museum piece and collector’s item as opposed to a gun used in the commission of a crime.
Speaker 1
36:43
You’d think you should be able to track down who bought bullets for this old gun.
Speaker 2
36:48
Yes, you should. It is a funny point because usually these are guns you would never fire because they’re so old and valuable. They’re interesting relics. But this person not only fired it, but the forensics folks noted that all the adults had been shot at least twice in the head.
Speaker 2
37:10
With close-range shots?
Speaker 3
37:14
Yes, close range. In fact, there were 21 spent shell casings, of which 17 had hit the target.
Speaker 2
37:25
So also, someone who was good at shooting.
Speaker 1
37:28
Wow. Like a Swiss Son of Sam.
Speaker 2
37:34
And now all these questions come up, like not just who did it, but why? Why did they attack this family?
Speaker 3
37:42
Investigators were wondering too if this was a professional hit.
Speaker 2
37:47
Mm-hmm, because it felt like it. They initially thought it was a professional hit, but by someone using a World War I-era gun.
Speaker 2
37:58
So they thought this had all the markings of a professional hit—like someone knew where they were going to be and gunned them down. But the question is—
Speaker 1
38:09
Let’s hang on. Because earlier you said this guy did business in Switzerland. Yes. And now he’s killed with a Swiss gun. Is there a Swiss connection?
Speaker 2
38:23
Not like a French connection. Not a French connection. So here’s the problem with the professional hit theory at first: if it is a professional hit done by someone who uses really old weapons that might not work, who was the hit on?
Speaker 2
38:39
Because you’ve got a whole family in a car and some random guy on a bicycle. Was the hit done on the guy on the bicycle, and the family was collateral damage?
Speaker 2
38:51
Or was it the family, and the bicycle guy was collateral? And all of these—
Speaker 1
38:56
Suck. Like, if you’re riding a bike through a hit on a car or you’re in a car as a guy on a bike drives by and someone’s shooting at it, or was it just someone like, “I didn’t think this gun was going to work. I pulled the trigger 21 times.”
Speaker 3
39:13
That’s a lot of—
Speaker 1
39:14
You said it could shoot 50 times in whatever second. I pulled the trigger one time, I was shooting at a bird, and holy shit, it worked.
Speaker 3
39:22
Because it doesn’t, Kim, did you check this out? The gun can shoot a lot of rounds very quickly. But from the way the shots were delivered so precisely, it doesn’t seem like it was a spray-and-pray situation.
Speaker 2
39:38
Like they do in America. These shots looked quite precise.
Speaker 3
39:43
We actually shot a gun like that, didn’t you, when you went to the—
Speaker 2
39:46
We did. What was that? The AR.
Speaker 1
39:49
Shot a couple of other things, but the AR was the only thing we could hit the target with.
Speaker 2
39:54
First of all, it’s like, who is the target? And then the second question is, what kind of professional assassin uses this insane gun?
Speaker 3
40:03
It’s in museums and collectors’ items.
Speaker 2
40:06
It doesn’t make any sense.
Speaker 3
40:07
Right. So it just became, “Alright, we have to explore other angles.” But they did hold on to the hit theory and looked into it further.
Speaker 1
40:22
Hold on to that theory. I mean, look, the whole family is massacred. It’s not like, you know, a huge shot at the bike person, killed him, caught one or two of the others. They were all assassinated.
Speaker 1
40:34
And the only reason the girl wasn’t killed was that she was hiding. The other girl was even hit and she wasn’t even in the car. So it feels like somebody was targeting them.
Speaker 1
40:45
Maybe the bike guy was a witness and had to be dispatched—no loose ends. I don’t know.
Speaker 2
40:52
So, doing their police work, they start looking into the Sade family, Sade’s family, and him, and the bike guy, and they were all spies.
Speaker 3
41:04
Well, I mean, the theory of espionage was on the table, right, Jerry?
Speaker 2
41:10
Yeah, it was, for both of these guys. So that’s where it gets interesting. They start looking into both Sade and Sylvain, the bicyclist who was killed. It turns out both of them potentially could be involved in espionage.
Speaker 3
41:34
Well, they both certainly needed to be looked at.
Speaker 1
41:37
Really?
Speaker 2
41:43
Yeah, and there are a bunch of other cans of worms on this one too. So maybe this is a good spot to break and come back in the next episode to keep talking about this.
Speaker 1
41:54
Oh, wow. Okay. A two-part episode. That was unexpected. I think for all of us. All right. Great. Um, yeah. All right. We’ll see you next week with part two. Also, join us on Slick Haters Only on Facebook or our Slick Hation.
Speaker 1
42:12
You can email us at Slaycation.wtf. Just click “Contact Us,” keep the good reviews coming, and we will read them. We love you guys. Yeah. We’re so glad to be back and I’m going to go get my finger looked at.
Speaker 1
42:26
Bye.
