Ep 27 You Cruise, You Lose

Speaker 1 00:00

Six hundred thirty six hundred four hundred and fourteen dollars you’re making up numbers I wait wait am I wait six

 

Speaker 2 00:08

6 -plea -44, 2 -de -4, 3 ,439.

 

Speaker 3 00:13

Meemaw, meemaw, meemaw, meemaw.

 

Speaker 4 00:28

Pack your body bags. We’re going on a Slaycation. These are murders and mysterious deaths that happen while you’re on vacation. I’m your co -host Adam Tex Davis, and I’m joined by my lovely wife, more or less Kim.

 

Speaker 1 00:44

I say more, uh, hello, hello, hi, honey. Hi, hon.

 

Speaker 4 00:49

And of course, the always tolerable Jerry Culber. Hello. Hello, buddy.

 

Speaker 1 00:54

Jerry.

 

Speaker 2 00:55

Hello. I like, I actually prefer big or little Kim. I think this, yeah, instead of more or less Kim, but always, I want more Kim.

 

Speaker 1 01:03

Well, thank you. I do appreciate that. I do. Right.

 

Speaker 3 01:09

All right. Yeah. Okay.

 

Speaker 4 01:11

Well, moving right a lot. Well, no, I was going to say Kim and I, we will be married 24 years in August and then Jerry and I have been business partners for easily 14 years and have known each other for over 30 years.

 

Speaker 4 01:26

So if we sound comfortable mocking and enjoying each other’s company, it’s because we do and we are comfortable. All right, ready? Come for the vacation, stay for the murder. It’s a new tagline. I’m workshopping.

 

Speaker 2 01:41

Come for the vacation, stay for the murder.

 

Speaker 4 01:42

because we need to come up with some stuff for merch because our fans are literally asking for merch

 

Speaker 1 01:50

Hello, fans. Hello, my sleigh -caters. I do want to say, like. Hello, hello.

 

Speaker 2 01:54

Sending love. We have done so many shows over the years, including many podcasts. I have never experienced such a fun relationship with our fans as we have on Sleekation. I love them, they love the show.

 

Speaker 2 02:09

It’s just they get it.

 

Speaker 1 02:10

It’s so fun.

 

Speaker 4 02:12

Yeah, and it’s like it is kind of happening the way I predict I was like they’re gonna love Kim except for that one person They’re gonna love Kim

 

Speaker 1 02:21

Aww, honey, they love you too and you, Jerry.

 

Speaker 4 02:25

Well, I thought I would be the one that they talk.

 

Speaker 3 02:26

No, dude, it’s funny, they love you.

 

Speaker 2 02:29

Some do some do well those who understand your role on the show that you’re like you’re literally learning the case in the real time And that you are able to like be funny in real time is that they get it I mean that did you guys see this one from Becky this review now.

 

Speaker 2 02:45

Oh, it’s great It’s from a couple days ago. She says love to the woman, etc

 

Speaker 1 02:53

Hey, Becky.

 

Speaker 2 02:54

Exactly. You’re going to love Becky. I am a random almost 40 -year -old woman who loves your podcast. Whoever says less Kim is, as the kids say, a fart face. A fart face. Nice. A fart face. Also, Kim’s voice is raspy and smooth as a human being who has been slowly inhaling yarn all of their life.

 

Speaker 1 03:16

That is correct. That’s exactly correct. All the interesting fibers, the shedding fibers. You are so right, Becky. So right. I wish she was inhaling more yarn. Thank you for getting it.

 

Speaker 2 03:32

And she also says Jerry’s tolerable.

 

Speaker 3 03:34

KIDDING.

 

Speaker 2 03:37

So you’re not. Yeah, I’m not sure. And then the other one that I, the other one I loved, I’ll just read one more, was from Duke Loves Josh. So I guess it’s a happy, it could sound like either someone has a dog named Josh or a gay couple, or I don’t know, maybe it could be their son.

 

Speaker 2 03:53

Duke Loves Josh, hilarious bad taste. They remind me of me and my friends talking when we hope nobody hears us say some stuff and thinking we are hilarious. It makes me laugh out loud and they are detailed and yes, compassionate too for the victims.

 

Speaker 2 04:08

Aww. Thanks Duke Loves Josh, you get it.

 

Speaker 1 04:10

Yes, we love that.

 

Speaker 2 04:12

Kim, your voice really does sound like you’ve just been inhaling, Yarn.

 

Speaker 1 04:15

But I have been I mean cashmere alpaca. I mean, it’s just what I do

 

Speaker 4 04:22

I do love this knitting, criming crossover is pretty great. And I do have some plans for the future with that, but we’ll put that aside for a second.

 

Speaker 1 04:32

I think our fans recognize us as the Holy Trinity. I do, I think so. We are. That’s H -O -L -E -Y.

 

Speaker 3 04:40

I feel like Martha’s got it.

 

Speaker 4 04:42

to us. Just when we got out of trouble with the Christians, Kay gets us right back in. No, I was going to say, what merch should we do? I mean, obviously we should do a less Kim shirt or some kind of…

 

Speaker 4 04:53

No, no, not a less Kim shirt. No, it’s ironic. It’s like… More Kim. Less Kim equals more Kim. Or… Just do more Kim. Mo -Kim. Mo -Kim. Somebody suggested, somebody suggested less Kim because that’s the joke.

 

Speaker 4 05:05

The joke is out there so let me try it. Yeah, but what?

 

Speaker 1 05:07

I give, you know, all right. Well, the fan gave birth to something greater mark him. I think that’s what needs to be.

 

Speaker 4 05:16

to stop interrupting the woman. I don’t know who that’s for. That’s a good one. That’s a good one. Obviously a macho baby man. Oh my God. It has to be something.

 

Speaker 2 05:27

from being a fat Greek murder. Oh my God. That was the one time that both Kim and I were simultaneously unable to speak. Kim could speak for like minutes.

 

Speaker 4 05:36

I couldn’t I couldn’t I couldn’t

 

Speaker 3 05:39

too. Yeah.

 

Speaker 4 05:40

I was thinking, like, we could do a take on, like, Les Miserables for you, and like, Les Tolerables for you would be fun. And then, yeah. Oh, someone named Jess P, I just love that they they singled me out and they said they I was having the same reactions to some of the stuff that they did in our episode.

 

Speaker 4 06:00

And they said, keep being the least tolerable one, just like the rest of us, which is great. So this show is for the yeah, this show is sort of for the rest of you, for the ones who who love that intersection of crime and comedy.

 

Speaker 4 06:13

And just so you know, you can email us. We figured this out on the last episode or two episodes ago. I don’t remember what is their email. You can you can go to the websites location dot WTF and you can hit contact us and you can send us an email.

 

Speaker 4 06:25

Right. And speaking of the website, our photos are now up on the website. You know, I think we look exactly how we sound and come across on the show. But some people saw photos of us and we’re surprised.

 

Speaker 4 06:37

Really? Yeah. What did they say? They were surprised. Somebody said that Kim did not look anything like that. They what they thought. Huh. And then I also did. I know that was a crazy picture. But I kind of want to know what they were thinking.

 

Speaker 4 06:51

Well, wasn’t the pictures that were on the web are on the website now. It was other pictures that were that were used for the interview episode that I did. Kim thinks she looks crazy in that. But I don’t know.

 

Speaker 4 07:01

All I could say is that Kim looks great in the picture that’s on the website. And I feel good about that. Yeah.

 

Speaker 1 07:06

Thank you, you guys, man. Oh, love you. I look like.

 

Speaker 4 07:09

a big goofball.

 

Speaker 1 07:10

No, you don’t. You’re adorable. And Sherry looks like he’s going to do your tax night, so I really…

 

Speaker 3 07:15

I just look like so I’m sorry. I understand that they are auditing you. Don’t worry. I have this under control

 

Speaker 4 07:23

I will take your tax collector to Mexico.

 

Speaker 1 07:26

I gotta say it’s a comforting look. It is a comforting look.

 

Speaker 3 07:29

This is Josh, this is what we got going on.

 

Speaker 2 07:32

I have a question. Why did we use different pictures of you guys on this the page that we did for the Apple podcast?

 

Speaker 4 07:40

Apple’s standards of photos kept getting kicked out. So that picture, I tried to use that picture of Kim and they wouldn’t allow it. Gotcha.

 

Speaker 2 07:50

You look like, on the Apple Podcast page, Adam, you look like a swashbuckling prince from a Disney film. Yes. It’s amazing. That’s perfect. I don’t understand. I don’t know what this photo is, but I love it.

 

Speaker 4 08:02

Yes, it’s my Errol Flynn look. It’s really delicious. So on, you know, obviously you can find us on, you can email us, but also we have a Slaycation Facebook page, and then we have a private Slacaters -only Facebook group, which is a great place to chat with us, but also other Slacaters, and people are on there.

 

Speaker 4 08:22

Kim is all over that thing. Kim’s on there all the time, right?

 

Speaker 2 08:25

like 100 something people already joined up there, right? Yeah, we’re close.

 

Speaker 1 08:28

to a hundred people. Yes. Get us to a.

 

Speaker 4 08:30

100. Come on, guys. And also you learn things like we were baffled by that little window that connects the bathroom and the kitchen and the Christie. Matt with Christie and Kirsty Maxwell. Kirsty Maxwell episode.

 

Speaker 4 08:42

And it turns out one of the slake haters who lives in Copenhagen says, oh, I had one of those. It’s to let light in to the bathroom from the other room. Otherwise, no sunlight would get in. I also learned you can’t spell slaughter without laughter.

 

Speaker 4 08:58

Thanks to Amy Dougal. I’m sorry, what’s her name? A woman named Amy. Hopefully, yeah.

 

Speaker 2 09:05

That might be a good tagline for something. You can’t spell slaughter without laughter. I mean, that’s amazing. That’s amazing for you, Amy.

 

Speaker 4 09:12

Yeah, yes girl and then yeah, and so on the on the slate caters only we’re gonna post photos and other fun stuff Kim, like I said is all over it. So if you want more Kim Facebook is where it’s at and Speaking of where it’s at, honey.

 

Speaker 4 09:25

Where is it at? Where are we slaking today? Where?

 

Speaker 1 09:29

Today, our slacating voyage takes us on the high seas of Palma de Maroca, Spain, setting sail to Messina, Sicily, located on the northeastern tip of the island to Livorna, a charming port city on the western coast of Tuscany, Italy.

 

Speaker 1 09:51

On the cruise ship, the island escapes.

 

Speaker 3 09:56

I just want to say, I love that as this show goes on, every episode, Kim’s description of where we’re going, just gets a little bit longer.

 

Speaker 1 10:04

Well, you know, it is a slaycation. I, I need for our audience to just visualize the space. You know what I mean? And what better way to do it than with descriptive language. Now let’s talk about pronunciations.

 

Speaker 1 10:19

That was beautiful. Yeah, that was really nice. Thank you guys. Thank you. I’ve been rehearsing. No, I haven’t. So yeah. So the cruise ship, the island escape with various port stops, the ship along the way, the MS island escape would evolve and have many iterations.

 

Speaker 1 10:37

The liner began its life in the early eighties as the MS Scandinavia, a cruise ferry owned by DFDS Seaways, an international logistic and shipping company, and operated for a time between New York to Freeport, Bahamas.

 

Speaker 1 10:55

In 1985, this MS Scandinavia was sold to Sundance Cruises and rebranded the Star Dancer. Star Dancer. Does that sound familiar to anybody? Yes. We did. Was that the shout box? Yes. Yes, it was. If you recall, we covered a slaycation on the Star Dancer.

 

Speaker 1 11:17

Star Dancer. Yes. So if you haven’t heard it, go give episode 13, the shove boat a listen.

 

Speaker 3 11:27

That was also the one with the crazy stories with the Israelites.

 

Speaker 2 11:30

really spies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Speaker 4 11:32

It’s an amazing episode if you haven’t heard. Yes. Okay. Wait the stardancer star dancer. Yes. Okay, so we’re back on the star

 

Speaker 1 11:42

island escape now the island escape but yes the star dancer cruise line sun dance would merge with two smaller cruise lines to form admirable cruises in 1986 admirable yes from the makers

 

Speaker 4 11:55

of tolerable comes admirably.

 

Speaker 1 11:58

In 1988, the line announced a new addition to their fleet, a new vessel called Future Seas. And later that same year, Admiral Cruises was acquired by Royal Caribbean. Oh, I heard of them. In 1990, the star dancer was renamed Viking Serenoy.

 

Speaker 1 12:19

It has many names. Yes. And the ship would undergo significant interior refurbishments, redesignings, the cabins, the dining and the entertainment venues and public areas would all see significant upgrades.

 

Speaker 1 12:34

The goal at the time was to customize the cruise ferry to a more full -time ocean liner because it was a ferry and cars would be transported. So they just updated the look. And the MS Viking Serenade would enjoy an uneventful 12 -year tenure with Royal Caribbean.

 

Speaker 1 12:59

In 2001, a venture between Royal Caribbean Cruises and UK holiday operators First Choice Travel created Island Cruises and would begin operations with transferring the Viking Serenoid to Royal Caribbean’s new subsidiary Island Cruises and christened the ship the Island Escape in 2002.

 

Speaker 4 13:24

Okay, I just have one question is all of this gonna be on the test. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes

 

Speaker 1 13:30

You never know when another ship with a murder will come up, and you want to be able to know. Okay. There’s a lot of them.

 

Speaker 4 13:35

That was a lot of shit.

 

Speaker 2 13:36

Well, it’s just, I think, you know, it’s just, it sort of gets to this point that this ship started life as a car ferry, right? So it was a windowless giant box, basically. And if you remember from the shove boat episode, one of the things that made that murder interesting was the fact that it’s a high fall because there’s no protruding other decks, right?

 

Speaker 2 13:59

So it’s just a straight, like unlike most cruise ships, it’s just a, it’s just a box. And so over the years Kim was saying, like the ship just keeps getting additions and upgrades. They’ve added balconies actually that they’ve basically just like stuck balconies on the side and like cut out holes as they’ve made staterooms.

 

Speaker 2 14:19

So it’s just kind of a janky. How big is this thing? It’s not a giant ship. I don’t know exactly.

 

Speaker 4 14:24

I mean, it’s…

 

Speaker 1 14:25

It really isn’t considering the ships that we see today. It carries about 1 ,700 passengers, which is… It’s not huge. No.

 

Speaker 2 14:34

But it’s not small, but it’s also, you know, part of walking through all those different lives it has. It’s an old ship. It was never designed as a cruise ship. It’s kind of on the jankier, like, it’s not a nice ship, right?

 

Speaker 2 14:49

It’s not like if you’re like looking for like a nice luxury cruise. This is not it. This is more of a low budget.

 

Speaker 1 14:57

Exactly. And in fact, this ship, because it was kind of janky, it sort of aged out of Royal Caribbean’s fleet and they kind of was like, let’s start a venture. And the company that they actually had the shared ownership of the ship with, it was because it was aged out of their fleet.

 

Speaker 1 15:20

And because they was going to sort of, this cruise was going to be kind of a budget cruise situation.

 

Speaker 2 15:28

Mainly for European. Exactly. Mainly like if you’re in Europe, like if you’re in the UK and you want to go on a cheap quick cruise, this ship is now serving that market. Gotcha.

 

Speaker 1 15:38

So who are the players? Well, the players are actually an American couple. Lonnie Coccantes recently had begun courting his ex -wife Mickey Kanasaki The couple had divorced four years prior in 2002 after seven years of marriage So Lonnie had just come out of yet another failed marriage before reuniting with Mickey.

 

Speaker 1 16:02

Oh, yes It is a new twist and he had arranged this romantic getaway for the two of them to build upon that spark and revitalize their relationship making this a Reconciliation to remember always a good idea always

 

Speaker 2 16:19

You want to talk about their marriage a little bit, or do you? Ooh, yes, yes, honey, spill that tea. Yeah, I just, I think it’s real. I think Lonnie’s, it’s an interesting backstory. So, you know, Lonnie was born in, the husband was born in 1957.

 

Speaker 2 16:33

He attended undergraduate college in Nebraska in the late seventies.

 

Speaker 1 16:37

and went on to law school.

 

Speaker 2 16:38

to law school, we did find the footnote that while in Nebraska at undergrad, he was convicted in 1976 of possession of marijuana with the intent to deliver possession of a controlled substance and burglary.

 

Speaker 2 16:49

Yeah, did jail time. Did three years of jail in Nebraska. While in college. Well, yeah, it was like right towards, I think it was either right at the end or right after college. Now, I will tell you, I look very askance at any conviction that includes the words marijuana possession.

 

Speaker 2 17:04

Because typically those are really crappy laws that mostly are fortunately.

 

Speaker 4 17:11

violent crime right and by the way your photo on the website looks exactly like the kind of person who would say a scant just say you know Jerry

 

Speaker 1 17:26

one of the things I love about.

 

Speaker 2 17:27

I wouldn’t say this word is this look is a scant. It’s something else, but we’re moving on. Anyway, sorry. So he served three years in prison, five years on parole, and he was released from state supervision in 1984.

 

Speaker 2 17:39

He moved to Texas where he got his law degree, and then he went on to California and passed the bar and got his license to practice law in 1993 in California. He and Mickey, his first wife, met at the law firm, okay?

 

Speaker 2 17:54

She was a paralegal. They fell in love.

 

Speaker 1 17:57

I think Mickey was his second wife.

 

Speaker 2 18:00

That’s a second wife already.

 

Speaker 1 18:01

He had a lot of marriages and I kept losing track of it myself, but carry on Jerry, sorry for the interruption.

 

Speaker 2 18:08

I mean, I know he’s had a lot of wives in the current version, but maybe he had a wife before. They got married in 1995. And things were a little crazy right from the beginning, like by…

 

Speaker 1 18:21

heard there was no she was actually a little older than him.

 

Speaker 2 18:24

Okay. Yeah, and she had come over to the States from Japan as a child with her brother. So she grew up in America, but was born in Japan. Very beautiful, according to everybody, very sweet, very smart lady.

 

Speaker 2 18:37

And they, in 1999, he was accused of having had sex with a 15 -year -old girl in California.

 

Speaker 1 18:46

Apparently, it was a weird connection. It was the daughter of a client, I think, or a colleague.

 

Speaker 2 18:54

Yeah, I didn’t even see that but that’s that makes it even weirder, but

 

Speaker 1 18:59

just tells you a little bit about all right

 

Speaker 4 19:03

You know who to read.

 

Speaker 2 19:03

against listen she the girl no the gun hitting kidding oh yeah yeah anyways so mr. Lonnie was accused of having sex with a 15 year old girl which he denied the girl refused to testify so the charges were never there was never any formal case against him

 

Speaker 4 19:22

Oh, how was that accusation made? Like she told somebody or somebody saw something?

 

Speaker 2 19:27

she told someone, and then, but they, so Lonnie and Mickey, who were married, were expecting some kind of significant civil suit action against them, so they supposedly, according to the story, divorced in 2000, 2001.

 

Speaker 2 19:44

Right, to protect their assets.

 

Speaker 3 19:46

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Speaker 4 19:48

That’s a lawyer move there, right?

 

Speaker 2 19:51

Is that a lawyer move? But because the charges were never brought and but people were talking about it, he sued the girl and her family successfully for a million dollars for defamation.

 

Speaker 4 20:02

Oh, keeping it classy. You know, so maybe he, I mean, maybe he didn’t do it because if you’re ballsy enough to sue them, you better hope that they’re not going to find evidence that you did this, but maybe that’s just me.

 

Speaker 2 20:17

I am only telling the story. He is a lawyer.

 

Speaker 4 20:20

I’m not a great guy. Wow. Okay. And it’s a client’s daughter. Mm hmm. Right.

 

Speaker 2 20:26

So they’re divorced supposedly to protect their assets. However, and this is the part Kim and I, we didn’t have a chance to talk about this, immediately after getting divorced to quote unquote protect their assets.

 

Speaker 2 20:37

Right.

 

Speaker 4 20:37

He meets because of my penal we need to

 

Speaker 3 20:43

Hahaha

 

Speaker 2 20:44

So, he starts a relationship with this woman, Amy Noguya.

 

Speaker 1 20:50

I was wondering myself, but yeah. I met her on a dating website. And there was some speculation that he actually met her while he was even still married to Mickey.

 

Speaker 2 21:04

Yeah. So assets protected new lady picture, right? He gets married to her in 2005.

 

Speaker 4 21:14

Okay, so the good choices continue.

 

Speaker 2 21:16

I’m just bringing this up because I wanted to give a little back story on this relationship. This marriage was a little tumultuous because he was also still living with Mickey, mostly, but moved in eventually with Amy, but continued, he had shared finances and all this stuff with Mickey.

 

Speaker 1 21:38

unaware.

 

Speaker 2 21:40

Mickey had no idea. Wait, what? Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah, yeah. He’s pulling all this off without Mickey knowing. Eventually Mickey finds out.

 

Speaker 4 21:47

I can’t even have like a soda. Also, wait, you can be married to someone and live with someone else.

 

Speaker 2 21:54

you think about that. I did not know that. It’s an option.

 

Speaker 1 21:59

Yeah, I came as now.

 

Speaker 2 22:01

looking at scans at you.

 

Speaker 3 22:05

That’s good. That’s good. That’s good.

 

Speaker 1 22:07

Yeah, they had a lot of complicated issues going on.

 

Speaker 4 22:13

He’s kind of a mess, I think is the word you were looking for.

 

Speaker 2 22:17

So keep in mind, so he married Amy in 2005, one day shortly after they got married in 2005, Mickey, wife Mickey, former wife Mickey, goes to the house where he is now living with Amy, talks to Lonnie for about an hour, and that she leaves and that same afternoon he packs up his things and leaves Amy and moves back in with Mickey.

 

Speaker 2 22:41

Interesting. Why would that happen? The prevailing theory is that she had told people that she thought Lonnie had taken money from his law firm. And so she was a pretty… Oh, she was still working there.

 

Speaker 2 22:55

No, no. No, but she had… The thought is that she had some incriminating evidence. She went to him and said, you come back home or I’m releasing this information that will incriminate you. Yeah. So what do you think of that, Kim?

 

Speaker 1 23:10

You know, what was very clear to me was they were not good together. They were not a good couple. They were. She had been arrested twice for domestic violence against him. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, let me note that it was following the allegations.

 

Speaker 1 23:29

I was going to say, yeah, you can’t blame her too much. No, but you know, no, but that’s when you take the cue to keep your distance.

 

Speaker 4 23:39

Yeah, all these people should stay away from.

 

Speaker 1 23:41

each other. Well, anyway, so at this point, so they’re now getting ready to get on a cruise. Oh, can I say one last thing?

 

Speaker 2 23:48

I’m so sorry. I know you want to get them on the stamp cruise, but I do want to say one other thing. So the accusations about the 15 -year -old girl that he allegedly had sex with had completely derailed his legal career, right?

 

Speaker 2 24:02

And he was fired. He was fired, yeah. And so he was in a situation where he wasn’t making much money. He really wanted to sell this big house that he owned with Mickey that they’d bought back in the late 90s, early 2000s.

 

Speaker 1 24:17

Yeah, she wasn’t having it.

 

Speaker 2 24:19

I’m not interested in selling the house. All right, I’m glad we don’t have any motives. And Amy even says no motives at all, right? This is not a mess whatsoever. And Amy even recalls and told her lawyer, which by the way, Amy just had a lawyer.

 

Speaker 2 24:34

So just to put that out there.

 

Speaker 3 24:36

Amy just randomly had a lawyer who she told that Lonnie said to her

 

Speaker 2 24:42

Lonnie had said, Mickey won’t sell the house. The only way she’s ever gonna sell that house is if she goes away forever.

 

Speaker 4 24:48

I just went on a long trip, a long sunset cruise around the world forever.

 

Speaker 2 24:55

Yeah. Okay. So there’s a lot of that happening. But then he actually says, I want to go on this cruise. Lonnie says this. Lonnie says, I want to, I do want to take her on this cruise, Mickey. And he’s actually, they were planning to go with their friends.

 

Speaker 4 25:14

Susan and Bill, Donald and Kofi.

 

Speaker 3 25:16

Sorry. Sorry.

 

Speaker 2 25:20

Susie and Bill were friends who were gonna go with them who backed out at the last minute because they had a family crisis. Right. But the idea was this was gonna be a couple’s cruise for Lonnie. Lonnie and Mickey were gonna rekindle and be there with their best friends.

 

Speaker 4 25:34

Lonnie and Amy have been divorced at this point.

 

Speaker 1 25:37

No, they had divorce, they had divorce by this time.

 

Speaker 2 25:45

Yes. In fact, they weren’t married that long, like a few months.

 

Speaker 4 25:50

Yeah, months. Yes. All right. So just like an old or whatever.

 

Speaker 2 25:53

I don’t know how they better the technical guy. Okay, point is he’s back with Mickey now, and they’re they are looking to Rekindle and we’re going this cruise, right?

 

Speaker 1 26:03

has even talked that they’re going to remarry on their previous wedding anniversary, which was November 29th. Mm -hmm. Great idea. So, yeah. Very romantic. Yes. So he had chosen this cozy cruise cabin for the two of them to share on the 10 -deck ship.

 

Speaker 1 26:22

But the budget cruise? Yeah. I know. We’ve established it’s the budget cruise. Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s why the, I guess, the cabin had to be cozy. And with a balcony in which the couple could sail, unwind, and enjoy the beautiful ocean views.

 

Speaker 1 26:39

What could go wrong? Right. So, on May 23rd, 2006, Lonnie and Mickey, along with 1 ,700 fellow cruisers, would embark aboard the island escape at the port of Palma del Maroca. So, the ship set sail across the sea for the next three days, bound for Italy, and finally docked in the port of Messina, Sicily.

 

Speaker 1 27:08

Lonnie and Mickey boarded a tour bus and set about taking in the sights of Sicily’s third largest city, digesting the rich history and culture. Mickey took a moment even to pose for a photo Lonnie took of her standing before the Orion Fountain, which represents the city’s connection to mythology and is considered one of the most beautiful fountains in Italy.

 

Speaker 4 27:35

And we’ll hear all about it when we get back from this quick break.

 

Speaker 5 27:40

Hi, I’m Matt Harris. Seton Tucker and I post the podcast Impact of Influence, which for two years covered in depth, Elick Murdock, who was eventually convicted in 2023 of murdering his wife Maggie and son Paul.

 

Speaker 5 27:53

That story continues to evolve and we will cover that. Plus, we will tell you stories of other true crime events that have happened in the South. Please join us on Impact of Influence and give us a follow on the Impact of Influence Facebook page.

 

Speaker 4 28:10

All right, we’re back.

 

Speaker 1 28:10

Yeah, and the fountain. Yes, the fountain. And so after a day of exploring, the couple made their way back to the ship, had dinner, shared a bottle of wine, following which they tried their luck at the ship’s casino, and then went to see a comedy show.

 

Speaker 1 28:30

After a long eventful day, the couple retreated to their room, and in anticipation of the next day antics, Lonnie wanted to be sure he was well rested and refreshed for the day, and still lagging from the time change, he took a couple of Ambien, and got ready for bed.

 

Speaker 1 28:49

Any of you ever take Ambien? I took it once, never again. Right, but yeah, that’s about right.

 

Speaker 2 28:55

We will not be doing any ads for Ambien on this podcast.

 

Speaker 4 28:58

Yeah, you said he took a couple of couple. Yes. So what happens if you take one Ambien?

 

Speaker 1 29:05

Well, it’s just known to sort of people sleepwalk with, uh, yeah, yeah.

 

Speaker 2 29:13

So block you have crazy.

 

Speaker 1 29:15

crazy dreams. Are you worried about his dreaming? Well, perhaps. So it was 11 p .m. and the island escape was now en route to the next port of call, which was Naples, Pompeii. Mickey was settling in for the night too.

 

Speaker 1 29:33

And perhaps to quell the nausea from the seasickness or the food and drink or just not ready to fall asleep, she reportedly headed out to the Beachcomber restaurant, self -service buffet for a cup of tea at around 12 .15 a .m.

 

Speaker 1 29:54

So on the early morning of May 26, 2006, at about 4 .30 a .m., a groggy Lonnie woke from his slumber and noticed that Mickey was not there. Yeah. So he had determined that she likely had not returned since he last saw her leaving to get that cup of tea.

 

Speaker 1 30:17

When did she leave? Like midnight?

 

Speaker 2 30:20

12, 15 times. Yeah.

 

Speaker 4 30:21

All right. I mean, it’s not, you know, like my family. Four hours in the buffet is not a lot. Just getting warmed up. Yeah. So, you know, we could easily do that. But for most normal people, I would assume that.

 

Speaker 4 30:36

Well, she was only getting a cup of tea and she was only getting a cup of tea, too. But then look to have crab legs, chicken tenders.

 

Speaker 1 30:46

Well, he did a cursory search and he couldn’t find her and he then alerted the ship’s captain and ship’s security. And an announcement on the ship’s public system blared several announcements and an exhaustive search was done.

 

Speaker 4 31:04

Shuffleboard tournament at noon also missing

 

Speaker 1 31:09

Well, this was actually really early in the morning. Right. So that’s too early for Shumbleboard. Yeah, exactly. More like- But not for someone missing. Well, there was a couple of people.

 

Speaker 4 31:19

missing? Well, we’d like to report the following seven people missing on the shoveboat. All right, so Mickey’s missing.

 

Speaker 1 31:28

Right, right. They haven’t found Lonnie has not found her and now

 

Speaker 4 31:34

because I took 18 Ambien. Right, right.

 

Speaker 2 31:36

Well, the captain, who’s actually a former constable, so he actually has law enforcement training. Constable? Yes. All right. Now that that photo’s on this allocation site, I’m going to use words like askew, constable, profity, whatnot.

 

Speaker 2 31:52

Yeah, so the captain is actually, I guess constable’s a British thing? Yeah. So that is actually what he is. And so he sort of is like dual functioning as like captain of like, okay, we have an issue here, but he’s also thinking like, what could have happened?

 

Speaker 2 32:07

And one of the interesting things about this ship, as we learned on episode 13, the Shub Book, is that there’s very few places that you can actually go overboard, right? Because it’s not like a typical cruise ship with lots of decks, so there’s only a handful of places in public areas that even have access where you could even potentially fall overboard.

 

Speaker 1 32:30

And if you do, you go right down to the water. Yeah, it’s a straight shot down.

 

Speaker 2 32:34

or it’s your own room’s balcony, right, for the rooms that have these balconies. So, because the first thing you think if someone is missing on a cruise ship is, did they fall overboard? This is a cruise ship where it’s, unless you fell overboard off your own balcony, it’s less likely that that happens.

 

Speaker 2 32:50

Right, right.

 

Speaker 4 32:52

my family, then it’s, they’re probably in the bathroom after five hours of buffet.

 

Speaker 2 32:57

So, so he, you know, so, so the captain’s like, okay, well, she’s done the ship. Right.

 

Speaker 4 33:04

Right now and it turns on the siren because

 

Speaker 3 33:06

Be -ma -be -ma -be -ma -be -ma -be -ma -be -ma.

 

Speaker 1 33:10

Watson, Watson, come to the study. So after recognizing that she’s not on the ship, the Italian Coast Guard was notified. And Bill Price, who he had reached out to and was one of the couple that was supposed to join them, you know, but they had to bail at the last minute.

 

Speaker 1 33:32

How lucky are they? Well, they’re lucky not to be caught up in this madness, at least. But, yeah, exactly. So what does he say? But he had shared in an interview that he had gotten the call and he was asleep at the time with his dog.

 

Speaker 1 33:46

And I just had to say that because that’s adorable and who doesn’t love a guy who cuddles and loves his puppy. Anyway, apparently Lonnie had reportedly called Price several times during his time in Italy.

 

Speaker 1 34:02

But he just kept getting the dog.

 

Speaker 2 34:07

But fortunately, it was Scooby -Doo, so he was able to help. Longer? What’s on the wall? What girl? She’s in the wall. Oh my god, you guys. I’m sorry, Lassie. Right. Lassie.

 

Speaker 1 34:20

So the island escaped docked at Naples and the authorities collected statements and did a search of the couple’s cabin and there was a wine bottle and prescription medication along with some vitamins and those were confiscated.

 

Speaker 1 34:36

Lonnie had told investigators that Mickey could have very possibly gone overboard given her history of depression. She was known to suffer from depression and she was also known to struggle with alcohol so you know he had theorized that even she could have also nauseous fallen overboard leaning over the balcony perhaps to vomit.

 

Speaker 1 35:02

So he had some theories as to what could have happened. So Lonnie would disembark the ship in Naples and was put up in a local hotel where he stayed for a night before flying back to Los Angeles.

 

Speaker 4 35:18

Yeah. All right. So not a suspect at all.

 

Speaker 1 35:19

Well, there was no evidence of foul play and, you know, there was no reason for the investigators to detain him. And Lonnie declined the cruise lines personnel. They’re offered to stay for two nights.

 

Speaker 1 35:34

So he stayed for one, but then was out of there.

 

Speaker 4 35:38

If they gave him a deal, hey, you can stay for an extra two nights if you lose your wife. I don’t think that was the deal.

 

Speaker 2 35:45

Isn’t that what they advertise, Royal Caribbean ads? Lose your wife, extra night. Solid.

 

Speaker 4 35:52

Stay free. So it was interesting.

 

Speaker 5 35:55

Rain it in real Caribbean rain

 

Speaker 3 35:57

I’ll also not be advertising on this podcast. Sorry, sorry Royal Caribbean.

 

Speaker 1 36:01

We love you. Anyway, so it was reported that Lonnie got home to California and went straight to the home of his ex -wife, Amy Engwin, and told her that Mickey had gone overboard. That’s pretty much- It sounds like Mickey just went crazy on his life, right?

 

Speaker 1 36:20

Yeah. Yeah, she’s crazy. Yeah.

 

Speaker 4 36:23

Oh, what did she do this time? She went overboard. She was completely overboard.

 

Speaker 2 36:27

I mean, the most beautiful tie and this necklace. Yeah. Well, he had…

 

Speaker 1 36:31

Yeah. Well, he told Amy that Mickey was missing and gone.

 

Speaker 4 36:36

And wasn’t it Amy who said that the only way they sell this house is if Mickey goes missing?

 

Speaker 1 36:41

might have. Not suspicious at all. So on the evening of May 27th, 2006, now this is not long after Lonnie got back to California, an oceanography scientific research vessel sailing the Mediterranean Sea came upon a body floating off the coast of Paola, Italy.

 

Speaker 1 37:06

And the crew would retrieve the body and the Italian Coast Guard transported her body to a mortuary facility. And the body was clad in a black t -shirt, green pants, and was identified as Mickey.

 

Speaker 4 37:25

Was she wearing a t -shirt that says, I’m really depressed. I might jump. No.

 

Speaker 1 37:29

So there was an autopsy done by Italian doctor, Dr. Ricci, a forensic pathology. And he cited that there was signs of a skull fracture consistent with a fall from a cruise ship. There was also petechial hemorrhaging around her thorax, neck, a sign of asphyxia indicative of a blocked airway, like one when you strangle somebody.

 

Speaker 4 38:00

Oh, not from a glass of tea. Okay. A cup of tea.

 

Speaker 1 38:07

Yes. And there was also a large bruise to her neck. And another interesting factor was there was no water in her lungs. So she was dead before she… That is what it…

 

Speaker 4 38:20

water. Okay. Well, it’s a long fall. All right. Huh. Okay. So.

 

Speaker 1 38:26

So yeah, so this was now the Italian carner ruled this death as a homicide. Based on just that.

 

Speaker 2 38:35

Yes, the flimsy evidence of strangulation. Right, exactly.

 

Speaker 1 38:39

Exactly who could have done it though. Yeah, that’s that’s the question. That is the question

 

Speaker 4 38:45

She cut in front of my mother at the buffet. All right, so this happens and then they notify our buddy Lonnie, who’s in the middle of the house sale.

 

Speaker 2 38:59

In fact… You’re correct.

 

Speaker 1 39:00

correct. Oh. Yes. Oh. Look at that.

 

Speaker 3 39:05

Yep, yep.

 

Speaker 2 39:09

he inherit and also yes he

 

Speaker 1 39:11

travel insurance oh what recently purchased travel insurance and an inheritance of to be exact nine hundred and thirty thousand nine hundred fifty eight dollars Oh and their house okay

 

Speaker 4 39:25

So he sold the house, collected insurance, he collected inheritance?

 

Speaker 1 39:31

Yeah. Whose inheritance? Well, before they took the trip, they actually did their wills, which was interesting. I found that interesting. But I guess in the name of reconciliation and trying to get back.

 

Speaker 1 39:45

It’s a pretty janky boat.

 

Speaker 4 39:47

but we might not be coming back.

 

Speaker 2 39:49

They did redo their wills and named each other as sole beneficiary of everything, so anything she had in bank accounts, retirement accounts, anything at all went to him. You know, they were planning to reconcile.

 

Speaker 2 40:03

This was a reconciliation trip. Right, don’t forget. He invited her here to reconcile.

 

Speaker 1 40:09

Yeah, well, what would happen is now the FBI is involved in the investigation.

 

Speaker 2 40:15

because it happened in international waters.

 

Speaker 4 40:18

Oh, the FBI, but wouldn’t that be the CIA or?

 

Speaker 2 40:22

Hopefully not the CIA. The CIA starts investigating civilian murders we’ve…

 

Speaker 4 40:27

Oh, okay.

 

Speaker 2 40:28

and entered a new phase.

 

Speaker 4 40:30

No, just because you said international waters.

 

Speaker 2 40:32

Yeah, so the FBI, so because it’s international waters, no state has jurisdiction, right? Technically, California does because they lived there, but the actual crime happened in international waters, and because it involved two American citizens.

 

Speaker 2 40:48

The only entity that can investigate is the FBI. Gotcha.

 

Speaker 4 40:52

You also look like a lawyer in your photo, so I appreciate the legal advice as well.

 

Speaker 2 40:57

Well, I looked this up because I was like, why is the FBI involved? Just to be clear, the CIA does not ever… Do civilians. Do civilians. Like CIA is specifically about intelligence gathering in other countries.

 

Speaker 2 41:10

Right.

 

Speaker 4 41:12

Thought I knew that, but then I just said, I do know that, but then I just said it. Cause I don’t know, it popped into my head, but FBI got involved because there’s no state jurisdiction over this and, uh, all right.

 

Speaker 4 41:24

Well, that’s, that’s, uh, those are the big boys.

 

Speaker 1 41:27

Yeah, and the FBI would obtain a warrant and seize that $1 .3 million from Lonnie, so he would not be able to use it.

 

Speaker 4 41:40

Okay, so then what happens? We’ll find out after this quick break. We’re back with more Kim.

 

Speaker 1 41:51

So now Lonnie is being seriously looked at as a suspect in Mickey’s death, and now he’s kind of gone into, you know, he’s trying to protect himself and he’s getting Amy involved by coaching her on what to say and doing things like having her remove and turn over the hard drive of her computer since he had used it to book and research this ship, and there was maybe a question that he was aware of the ship’s history.

 

Speaker 4 42:29

episode.

 

Speaker 2 42:31

Well, no, but Kim’s pointing out like there is a theory that he knew about the Scott Ralston and in Karen Ralston case, right and that Because that boat is uniquely

 

Speaker 4 42:43

What is the Google search on that? What is the easiest boat to push someone off of?

 

Speaker 2 42:47

Well, so that is the kind of stuff he was searching for. And the other thing that’s interesting.

 

Speaker 4 42:54

that on their hard drive.

 

Speaker 2 42:55

Well, that actually becomes an issue for him. It does. So the other thing that’s, this boat is so oddly, it’s such an odd choice for an American, like because he requested this boat. His travel agent was like, what boat?

 

Speaker 2 43:11

Exactly. So the travel agent comes back to him and is like, Are you sure? Are you sure? Like this is- Do you know what you’re doing? Not only is this boat extremely low budget, it’s like you’re, you’re schlepping, you had to like go multiple flights to get to this boat.

 

Speaker 1 43:27

Yeah, you have to take a flight from California to…

 

Speaker 2 43:30

Minnesota? Yes, and then to London. So it’s like you’re going all, like you could get on any ship in San Diego, right? So it’s like you’re-

 

Speaker 4 43:39

spending all this money to get to the cheap boat when you could just get the expensive boat.

 

Speaker 2 43:45

And also, keep in mind, they live not far from San Diego, which has tons of really nice boats that go out. And the travel agent actually checked with him a bunch of times, like, you’re sure this is the boat, right?

 

Speaker 2 43:55

This is, do I have this correct? And he’s like, yes. And the captain of the boat actually later says that he thought he was shocked when he got looped in by Lonnie that this was an American couple, because he said, and all my years of captaining this boat, I don’t remember any Americans ever being on this ship, because it’s such a specifically, like, European, low budget ship.

 

Speaker 1 44:19

so targeted.

 

Speaker 2 44:21

So he really specifically researched and was like, I want to be on that boat because he, we, the theory is he knew about this other murder that had happened there. Which also seems like, I love Euro trash.

 

Speaker 4 44:35

Why can’t I, why can’t I party with them? They know how to smoke lots of cigarettes.

 

Speaker 2 44:39

But it all looks very suspicious.

 

Speaker 4 44:41

OK, so I mean.

 

Speaker 1 44:43

It’s interesting, too, because, you know, the FBI was involved and questioning him, and he was able to sort of, I don’t even know what it was that he was able to do, but he, it took them a while to gather everything that they would need to make a case.

 

Speaker 2 45:03

Right, because there wasn’t any, it was like all the evidence was circumstantial. Right. Because it’s like. We only had a body.

 

Speaker 1 45:10

Right. They did convene a grand jury.

 

Speaker 2 45:13

in 2006.

 

Speaker 1 45:15

Right, which wasn’t long after, but Amy had given him an alibi. An alibi? Well, not an alibi, but basically spoke. She lied, essentially. Right, so here’s what happened.

 

Speaker 2 45:29

So Lonnie has this attorney named, is it Jennifer Keller? Yes. So Jennifer Keller needs to take a statement, his attorney of course gets to take a statement from anyone involved if they want. And so he goes and he coaches Amy and says, my attorney’s gonna take a statement from you.

 

Speaker 2 45:48

When she does, just make sure to make me sound great. And don’t say anything about anything bad I ever said about.

 

Speaker 4 45:57

Right. Mickey, I say this every time Tim and I go out.

 

Speaker 2 46:01

Right. But the issue here is that there was a implied threat to Amy of either you’re going to get cut off financially. She also says she was scared because she knew that he had killed. She thought he had killed or arranged for Mickey to be killed.

 

Speaker 2 46:19

Right. So she’s like, I’m just going to play along with this guy. But you didn’t know. She didn’t know. She assumed. She assumed. And he was threatening her.

 

Speaker 4 46:28

What was she coached to say that wasn’t 100 %?

 

Speaker 2 46:32

not to mention that he told her he was going to make his wife go away forever, maybe for one thing. Oh, I thought she said that. No, no, no, he said that to her.

 

Speaker 4 46:41

that to her I see

 

Speaker 2 46:42

I see okay and remember prior to him even divorcing Amy and going back with Mickey is when he told Amy I’m never gonna be able to sell the house and get all my money unless Mickey goes away forever Right.

 

Speaker 2 46:54

She had gone to her attorney and and told her attorney that he said that oh, she then told Lonnie By the way, just so you know I told my attorney what you said And he demanded that she go to the like write a letter to her attorney Hanting Misunderstood I see okay.

 

Speaker 2 47:14

So this guy is like

 

Speaker 4 47:17

with Amy at this point? Are they together again? Or no, she’s just…

 

Speaker 2 47:21

It seems like that’s where he went when he got back from the cruise.

 

Speaker 4 47:25

She took them back or she took them back?

 

Speaker 1 47:27

It’s he would end up being married to someone else.

 

Speaker 3 47:32

Mm -hmm.

 

Speaker 1 47:33

Yeah, he ended up getting married to someone else.

 

Speaker 2 47:36

Katherine Kern.

 

Speaker 1 47:36

Right, and moved to Florida.

 

Speaker 2 47:38

But that later, yes, okay, but so he’s he at this point we’ll get to that so at this point. Yeah, he is Mickey is dead He is divorced from amy but back, but that’s where he goes when he gets back to california

 

Speaker 4 47:53

Hey, guess what happened?

 

Speaker 2 47:55

But guess what happened on the ship? No, here’s why he went back to her. She has tons of incriminating evidence, right? Amy is the one he told that he was gonna kill Mickey. Amy’s house is where he was living when he was researching boats to kill your wife.

 

Speaker 1 48:13

Right, the best possible cruises.

 

Speaker 2 48:16

So there’s a hard drive at her house that he doesn’t want to exist anymore.

 

Speaker 4 48:20

Do that at the Internet Cafe.

 

Speaker 2 48:23

So it seems like he goes back to Amy because he’s like shit There’s a lot of loose ends and I gotta I gotta get this woman to clam up. I need my hard drive I need her to

 

Speaker 4 48:32

Surprised he didn’t take her on a cruise. Well…

 

Speaker 3 48:35

what we’ll get there we were Kim and I were saying like earlier day we’re texting

 

Speaker 2 48:48

Like this guy is like a crazy cross between Scott Ralston from the Shoveboat and Harold Henthorn from the very first episode we did, the Colorado episode, where he just had like- They had a baby. Yeah, it was like they had a baby and it is- This guy.

 

Speaker 1 49:03

non -stop steaming

 

Speaker 4 49:05

Not yeah, but not thought out

 

Speaker 1 49:07

I think he just thought he was smarter than everybody else.

 

Speaker 4 49:11

Well he’s still out of jail.

 

Speaker 2 49:15

He actually moves, so he coaches Amy on what to say. And she goes through with it. She does. Right, because she’s afraid. Even she goes to the grand jury in 2006 and lies to the grand jury. Wow. And so he even tells her to tell the grand jury that they got divorced because he found her with a former lover and got upset.

 

Speaker 1 49:37

No boyfriend, yeah. Totally not true.

 

Speaker 2 49:40

So she’s just now, and she’s just lying.

 

Speaker 4 49:43

making stuff up. Okay. And this helps him escape the grand jury. Correct. Yeah.

 

Speaker 1 49:50

She wasn’t forthcoming with information that

 

Speaker 4 49:53

I mean, it does feel weird that the case hinges on a person who wasn’t there. you

 

Speaker 2 49:59

Well, the evidence is there’s no direct evidence linking him to her death, right, because there’s no… Nobody saw it. Nobody saw it. There’s no fingerprints. There’s nothing. So it’s all… Right, and it happened in…

 

Speaker 1 50:09

to national waters, which even, Right.

 

Speaker 4 50:12

right you know Ambien all bets are off make that Ambien you never know

 

Speaker 2 50:19

So, you know, the FBI is obviously all over this, they’re trying to figure out what’s going on. So, the FBI agents, their names are Ken Stokes and R .W. Simpson. And they, you know, they get a whole statement from Lonnie and he gives them the whole background on all the crazy marriage stuff and the rekindling and he, all the way up to like, I had Ambien, she had wine, who knows what happened, right?

 

Speaker 2 50:44

So, there’s two things that they notice that are like huge red flags for them because they’re not only talking to him, they’re also obviously talking to other people, looking just at general records.

 

Speaker 2 50:56

First of all, he never mentions the existence of Amy at all, doesn’t mention that he married this woman or nothing, right? So, no mention of hers, they’re like, that’s weird. The other weird thing is he does not inform Mickey’s family, her brother or any of her relatives of her death.

 

Speaker 2 51:15

Yeah.

 

Speaker 1 51:16

Are they in Japan or are they here? They’re here. They are. But he doesn’t let them know.

 

Speaker 5 51:21

No. No.

 

Speaker 2 51:22

So her family is like, that’s fucked up that he didn’t tell us. Her niece, Julie, is recruited by the FBI to record all these conversations with Lonnie.

 

Speaker 1 51:35

Yeah. Mm.

 

Speaker 2 51:37

And they record 14 conversations from May to July, 2006, leading up to the grand jury where he never says that he killed her or anything like that. But he says he’s been very frustrated with the family because he feels like the family is using his money to subsidize their lifestyle.

 

Speaker 4 51:53

Oh, this is after the FBI froze it.

 

Speaker 2 51:56

Yeah. Okay. But, but he’s saying in prior years, like he felt like because Mickey was always helping her family with money.

 

Speaker 4 52:04

He would have gotten more if Mickey wasn’t so generous to her family. Exactly. Okay.

 

Speaker 2 52:08

So he’s complaining about that to the niece. And he’s also, she notices and the expand notices that he rarely, if ever says the name Mickey, he always just says the body. So he’s like, I need to see the body.

 

Speaker 2 52:20

I want to know what condition the body was in. They found the body, but he never says Mickey. And so that’s also odd. And then, like I said, he coached Amy on what to say.

 

Speaker 4 52:31

be, it would only not be weird if it was Jesse Ventura.

 

Speaker 2 52:36

There you go. You were trying to think. You thought of that. That was good. That was quick. Thank you.

 

Speaker 1 52:40

And there was a point, too, where he had hired his friend Bill Price, who was he hired his friend Bill? Yes, because his friend Bill Price was a retired policeman, who is now a investigator, private investigator.

 

Speaker 1 52:59

And his partner is too.

 

Speaker 2 53:01

Yeah, so Bill and Susan, who were supposed to go on the cruise with them, are both actually private investigators. Oh, wow.

 

Speaker 4 53:08

Yeah, so he hires them to try to.

 

Speaker 2 53:11

Yeah, he actually, he hires him and then he decides he would just hire Susan so that Bill could be a character witness at trial. But it’s basically like he’s paying Susan and they’re both working and they’re going to, they go to Italy, they send another investigator on the cruise to check it out, like they’re kind of like checking it all out, right?

 

Speaker 2 53:34

And he, in the meanwhile, he moves to Florida, right? Yeah. He leaves California, moves to Florida, marries this woman, Catherine Kern. Right. Starts taking care of his ailing father in Florida and starts practicing law in Florida.

 

Speaker 2 53:50

What’s the problem with him practicing law in Florida?

 

Speaker 4 53:53

his license.

 

Speaker 2 53:53

Didn’t lose his license. Right. But he has none in Florida. But he has none in Florida.

 

Speaker 1 53:57

Oh, and he has to get it back.

 

Speaker 2 53:59

Yeah. And so every case, there’s the way… Oh, he’s going to let a little thing like that stop him. Well, this bites him in the ass also because, you know, you’re supposed to, um, if you don’t have a, the floor of the rule is if you don’t have a license to practice, you can practice on a case, literally case by case basis, meaning you can go to the judge and say, you know, I would like to represent this client,

 

Speaker 2 54:21

here are my credentials, and you get permission to do that one case, okay? So he does take on this, this one case, this guy named Ed Bujanowski. So Ed Bujanowski had a dispute with his neighbor somewhere in Florida.

 

Speaker 2 54:35

He somehow comes across Lonnie as an attorney, hires Lonnie. Did Lonnie have billboards? I don’t know. I have no idea. Like Lonnie seems like the kind of guy who would have billboards, right? So he hires Lonnie, goes to court, and they get all the way through this case.

 

Speaker 2 54:52

And at some point, somehow the judge discovers that even though Lonnie, you know, represented that he had a license to practice law in Florida, in fact did not. He also has a criminal record. That he also has a criminal record.

 

Speaker 2 55:04

And so he gets, Lonnie gets kicked off the case. And so he, he basically, this guy Bujanowski is like, this guy’s such an asshole that when Lonnie. Wait, who’s an asshole? Bujanowski says that. Bujanowski’s an asshole.

 

Speaker 2 55:20

No, no, he says Lonnie’s an asshole, right?

 

Speaker 3 55:23

He’s like this fucking guy, right?

 

Speaker 2 55:25

Like, why pretend you’re allowed to practice law? You just screwed up my case and that’s right?

 

Speaker 1 55:30

He fucked him over, essentially.

 

Speaker 2 55:32

Solani, you know, the guy named

 

Speaker 4 55:34

No fucking kidding.

 

Speaker 2 55:36

Well, I was like, okay, so the way I found out about this is there’s a point in 2008 where Lonnie is trying to get his license to practice law in Florida. So he can just make money, right, and work. And in order to do that, you can’t have a criminal record.

 

Speaker 2 55:50

But remember, he has a criminal record from Nebraska in 1976 for Burglarian possession, right? Now, he doesn’t have a criminal record at all from this cruise ship murder, because there’s no charges. Right.

 

Speaker 2 56:03

But that does come up. It comes up. And he doesn’t have any criminal charges from the 15 -year -old girl who accused him of sexual misconduct because she never testified.

 

Speaker 4 56:16

Oh, you’re crazy.

 

Speaker 3 56:17

hahaha

 

Speaker 2 56:18

But he does have convictions from Nebraska for possession of marijuana, intent to deliver in burglary. So he has to get a letter from the Nebraska, it’s called the Board of Pardons, and you have to get a pardon for your crimes.

 

Speaker 2 56:34

And he’s like, okay, it’s been 30 years. So he proposes that he should get pardoned.

 

Speaker 4 56:42

And because he’s been such a good guy, nothing has happened since then, right?

 

Speaker 2 56:46

And somehow Bujanowski and Bujanowski’s new lawyer catch wind that this guy is asking for a pardon and they’re like We’d like to submit a letter

 

Speaker 3 56:55

Like, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up a second, like I put a finger in the

 

Speaker 2 57:00

They’re like, hold on, hold my earrings. We’d like to send them the letter. And so they submit a letter saying what he did in terms of misrepresenting the good practice law. And then Bijanowski in that letter also says, by the way, you should know that besides these things trying to get pardoned for, he was also accused of sexual misconduct with a 15 -year -old.

 

Speaker 2 57:22

And he’s also under investigation for this cruise ship murder of his wife.

 

Speaker 4 57:28

So his lawyer, Bozienowski’s lawyer, looked into this guy.

 

Speaker 2 57:31

and was like, yeah, this guy’s bad news.

 

Speaker 1 57:33

all the skeletons in the closet came piling in.

 

Speaker 4 57:37

Hilarious he makes like better call saw look like Matt

 

Speaker 2 57:42

Wow, and so the once this letter is received it doesn’t matter what Nebraska said like it’s it’s over like nobody’s giving this guy His license. So what is what is what is? What does mommy do now?

 

Speaker 4 57:55

What does he do? Well, let’s see. He’s already married, so he can’t get remarried. What does he do?

 

Speaker 2 58:01

Soos, Ed Bojianowski. Oh, of course, right. Ah!

 

Speaker 1 58:06

Oh my gosh, this guy.

 

Speaker 3 58:09

all the way to represents Lonnie himself oh yeah Lonnie represents himself always in court buddy can’t because this thing goes all the way to

 

Speaker 2 58:19

Nebraska Supreme Court who say, not only are these statements, these are true facts, right? The Brujianesque statements are true, but they say even if it was lies, he’s allowed to say it because he’s a citizen and it’s protected speech, right?

 

Speaker 2 58:35

So the board of pardons could decide whether we want to take this into consideration or not. But they’re like, but by the way, these things are all true, but that’s not why they rule against Lonnie. They rule against him on the grounds that it’s protected speech.

 

Speaker 2 58:49

Okay. So that doesn’t go well for him.

 

Speaker 4 58:54

At this point, Alicia doesn’t have to pay his lawyer.

 

Speaker 2 58:57

This is also around when he starts asking Amy for this hard drive, the hard drive that contains stuff. Because he refers to it a Dropbox folder with lots of important information.

 

Speaker 1 59:08

Like what ship to take

 

Speaker 4 59:10

Yeah, I love the idea that he took all these like flights and stuff to get to this janky shit It’s like, you know going overseas to go to the European Payless to buy shoes or something. Yeah

 

Speaker 3 59:22

like that.

 

Speaker 4 59:23

Yeah, uh, that is amazing. Okay. So they still don’t have evidence against him though, for the murder of Mickey.

 

Speaker 2 59:31

You know, they don’t, they don’t. And the problem is that they need people, right? It’s a circumstantial case. Right. And they don’t have.

 

Speaker 1 59:41

I need cooperation.

 

Speaker 4 59:42

collaboration So they still don’t have anything on the Mickey case Well, we’ll find out if they ever get their stuff together here right after this quick break and a word from our sponsors

 

Speaker 1 59:54

And we’re back with more crazy crazy one. Yeah, I like it though.

 

Speaker 4 01:00:01

I love the, I love the, you know, we’re, we’re dislocation dot WTF.

 

Speaker 2 01:00:08

That’s funny, when I looked at this one initially, I was like, oh, you know, another guy, another case, same ship, seemed really straightforward.

 

Speaker 1 01:00:15

Yeah, just so many twists and turns and and just this very complicated history. Yeah, right

 

Speaker 4 01:00:22

Well, it’s just a kiff that keeps on giving he really he just is yeah, like you said He’s like our Henry Henthorn guy

 

Speaker 2 01:00:28

Harold Henthorn

 

Speaker 4 01:00:30

Harold Henthorn, yeah, with that scheming and psychopathic, sociopathic, just whatever I need to do to survive. Plus the guy, yeah, he should write a book and sell one copy also, this guy. Yeah.

 

Speaker 2 01:00:41

Yeah, like the Shoveboat guy and it’s funny like it’s something about people that kill people on this particular ship. Mm -hmm are like wild

 

Speaker 1 01:00:48

And now him and Bill was and his partner.

 

Speaker 2 01:00:54

Don’t susan

 

Speaker 1 01:00:55

were working on this case or working on just helping him clear up his image. Yeah, they were working on Lonnie’s behalf. Right. Yes. So what did they find? But there came a certain point where they would realize that he is not a guy of good, sound, moral character.

 

Speaker 4 01:01:18

taken this long.

 

Speaker 1 01:01:19

Well, and they turn on him.

 

Speaker 2 01:01:22

Yeah, I mean, the thing is, they were friends for a long time.

 

Speaker 1 01:01:26

So I’m sure a lot of they couldn’t initially accept like wow this guy is really a douchebag

 

Speaker 4 01:01:33

friends with both of them or yeah I mean but like was he friends with Bill first more friends with Bill right yeah so you know the wife has got to be like look your friend is I mean there’s a lot going on with your friends seem like it now it seems like they hired her too though she’s like

 

Speaker 2 01:01:49

Y ‘all making some money. But yeah, there really came a point where they’re like, oh man. And that point came to a head in 2009 when Bill goes to interview Amy. Amy, right. And he needs to get some statements from her.

 

Speaker 2 01:02:03

And she tells Bill that she knows from Lonnie that Bill was the one who was gonna arrange the killing of Mickey. Right. That Lonnie had told Amy, hey, Bill knows some guys. Right. And they’re gonna take care of the Mickey problem on this ship.

 

Speaker 2 01:02:24

Implying that Bill was now implicated in this. Right. So he had.

 

Speaker 1 01:02:31

Bill’s name in his mouth.

 

Speaker 2 01:02:32

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so so Bill at that point is like, whoa, what the Right? Like, where did

 

Speaker 1 01:02:41

that come from.

 

Speaker 2 01:02:43

Yeah, so Bill is very upset, obviously, that this is now in the air. And so he goes to Lonnie and says, yo, look, I have this on tape. What is this, what is she talking about? And Lonnie says, don’t worry about it.

 

Speaker 2 01:03:00

She is totally unreliable because she’s already lied to the grand jury. So you have nothing, like, this is his twisted logic. It’s like, don’t worry about what she’s saying. All you have to know is whatever she says is gonna be dismissed because we all know she’s already lied to the grand jury at his direction.

 

Speaker 2 01:03:19

Yeah, of course, of course. So Bill’s like, I’m gonna give this tape to- Yeah, the FBI.

 

Speaker 1 01:03:25

eye to our friends.

 

Speaker 2 01:03:27

So the FBI goes to Amy and says, okay, we really do need you to testify and we need you to be honest. And she says she’s actually terrified at this point, that she’s terrified for her life. And they put her under protective custody.

 

Speaker 2 01:03:44

They also grant her total immunity. So now she is safe physically and also safe from prosecution. Right, safe legally. And at that point, she starts spilling the beans, you know, about what he said about making Amy go, making Mickey go away forever.

 

Speaker 1 01:04:04

And her admission that she had lied in the 2006 grand jury.

 

Speaker 2 01:04:09

And she says why she explains I was scared for my life. He threatened me.

 

Speaker 4 01:04:14

get in trouble for any of that perjury or any.

 

Speaker 2 01:04:16

No, she’s like, I want immunity from her journey and then I’ll talk. She also tells them about the hard drive, which apparently was never found. Like the hard drive may have actually been destroyed. It very well may have.

 

Speaker 2 01:04:29

She tells them about it. It was bleached. And, you know, at this point, they’re feeling like now they’ve got Amy telling them all the stuff he said, they also have her telling them that she also says that she was coached by him on what to say.

 

Speaker 2 01:04:46

They have enough at this point because of her testimony about what to bring him back in and they, in 2013, the FBI arrests him in Florida. Okay. Not only do they now have Amy’s testimony, they have all the money he inherited.

 

Speaker 2 01:05:05

They have bills.

 

Speaker 1 01:05:06

testimony, the tape of the interview.

 

Speaker 2 01:05:10

of the tape, they have found that he tried to transfer over a million dollars from different accounts into offshore accounts over the past couple of years. So there’s all this financial motive plus the Amy’s testimony and also some of these recordings.

 

Speaker 2 01:05:27

So they have enough to bring a case.

 

Speaker 4 01:05:30

I think his only recourse at this point is to run for president.

 

Speaker 3 01:05:36

Right, federal charges, he can pardon himself.

 

Speaker 2 01:05:39

So they charged him with first -degree murder with the special circumstance of financial gain, okay? And they decide that the crime was, because the crime was planned in Orange County in California, that Orange County should have jurisdiction.

 

Speaker 2 01:05:57

Sure.

 

Speaker 1 01:05:58

It’s now transferred from the FBI to Orange County.

 

Speaker 2 01:06:04

Because the FBI can’t really prosecute, I mean, they’re not a… Yeah. Right, so… At least they have a home base.

 

Speaker 4 01:06:09

Yes

 

Speaker 2 01:06:11

But his attorneys are like, no, this happened at International Waters. So we can’t be going to New Orange County. They’re like, no, you can. You definitely can. The crime was planned here in Orange County, and so we’re going to try it there.

 

Speaker 2 01:06:25

And in the process of all this happening, of course, he’s put in jail while he’s being held for trial. Gotcha. And while he’s in jail, he meets these cellmates of his, this guy, Maverick Samanu. Maverick?

 

Speaker 2 01:06:38

Maverick Samanu and Anthony King. Yeah. Who tell the prosecutors in this case that they…

 

Speaker 1 01:06:48

were solicited on Lonnie’s behalf to take care of his ex -wife, Amy.

 

Speaker 2 01:06:57

Yeah, of course. Not take care of her. Like right now.

 

Speaker 1 01:07:01

We’re here to make you comfortable.

 

Speaker 4 01:07:05

Okay, so he’s because these guys are getting out. Oh, they know people yeah

 

Speaker 2 01:07:12

Like basically they were like we know people that can do things on the outside

 

Speaker 1 01:07:17

So definitely a murder for hire.

 

Speaker 4 01:07:19

weren’t like plants of any sort.

 

Speaker 2 01:07:21

Well, they weren’t initially, but they reported to him somehow. Lonnie got a big mouth. Yeah. Well, these guys were like, wait, this guy’s being prosecuted for murder. Right. He just added some.

 

Speaker 1 01:07:33

Heh.

 

Speaker 3 01:07:35

And he just came to us and he was like…

 

Speaker 2 01:07:36

I got a problem named Amy, can you take care of it for me? And these guys, you know, King and Saman, who were like, sure, but also they’re like, oh, if we go and we tell the prosecutors, maybe we can get a little something for ourselves.

 

Speaker 2 01:07:48

So they do, they get, they actually both get offered reduced sentences in exchange for cooperation. And so they lead him on, you know, for a little while, they’re like, we got a friend, he’s this guy.

 

Speaker 2 01:08:00

And then Anthony King says, actually, that guy didn’t work out, but I got a new guy named Greg, who is going to hook us up. And they refer to anything involving death is called D16, D16, code. And then he has a call with Greg.

 

Speaker 2 01:08:22

So he gets on, Lonnie gets on the phone with Greg to arrange the assassination, from jail, to arrange the assassination of Amy. So she can’t testify. Greg is a cop of course. And then he says in code, I got a problem with this property.

 

Speaker 2 01:08:38

Can you keep the property off the market? Right?

 

Speaker 3 01:08:45

No, nobody has ever keep in mind, neither Greg, nor a lot here involved in real estate. So this is like the time you sold the house. Like. Well, it’s not done.

 

Speaker 4 01:08:57

like for anybody that’s just casually listening.

 

Speaker 3 01:09:00

keep the property off the market. Come on.

 

Speaker 2 01:09:04

If you did this in a bad movie about bad gangsters, you’d be like, this is ridiculous.

 

Speaker 4 01:09:08

Is Greg a cop or is Greg the hitman from the movie Hitman?

 

Speaker 3 01:09:12

He is ba-

 

Speaker 2 01:09:13

Like Greg Beeman is hilarious. He’s this cop who who is like in love with using technology Like he he has all these voice disguising technologies so we can play different characters

 

Speaker 4 01:09:26

Yeah, this is like the movie Hitman that’s out. Okay, so I haven’t seen it. I wonder if it’s the guy. Oh, I don’t know. Could be.

 

Speaker 2 01:09:33

Anyway, but point is he’s not actually arranging these he’s just incriminating himself even more, right?

 

Speaker 4 01:09:41

We’re just playing battleship, D16. D16.

 

Speaker 3 01:09:49

And at trial, his defense is like

 

Speaker 2 01:09:54

They’re like, you know, the prosecution’s like they were arranging this murder. They were talking in code, like real estate this, and Susie, Susie Price, who’s the DA at trials, like, you know, this is ridiculous because obviously that they’re talking about the, you know, assassination of Amy and the defense correctly says there is no talk of murder here.

 

Speaker 2 01:10:16

They’re just talking about real estate. No. This is apparently the same defense that handled the Trump trial.

 

Speaker 4 01:10:25

Right. Yeah. But also it’s like, so what’s the property? What is the property that’s being taken off the market here? Yeah, exactly.

 

Speaker 2 01:10:31

Well, that’s what DA Price says, is like, okay, what is the real estate, right? Neither of these people are involved in real estate. So please tell us what was the property we were discussing.

 

Speaker 4 01:10:42

Isn’t it a little late to kill Amy though? Hasn’t she already?

 

Speaker 2 01:10:45

Done a lot of talking? Well, she has, but I think he’s expecting her to testify at trial. Oh, okay.

 

Speaker 4 01:10:51

This has all just been preliminary, right?

 

Speaker 2 01:10:53

Yeah. This is a guy, I think it’s safe to say he’s a guy who doesn’t realize when the game is over. So, you know, he pulls in a forensic pathologist. Lonnie does in his defense, right? And what did they say?

 

Speaker 2 01:11:10

It was like…

 

Speaker 1 01:11:12

Well, they say that her injuries were consistent with a fall from a ship.

 

Speaker 4 01:11:19

Specifically a ship.

 

Speaker 2 01:11:20

Well, they were like specifically this ship because the ship is so strange specifically, right?

 

Speaker 1 01:11:27

It’s actually Atlantically. They also acknowledge that there was no water in her lungs.

 

Speaker 2 01:11:34

Uh -huh. Which is just very challenging, you know. To get past that. Like, if she wasn’t, she has to have been dead before getting to the water if she doesn’t have water in her lungs. So even if you had a high -velocity fall off the ship, if you were alive, even if you hit your head, you’d still be breathing when you hit the water and you would have water in your lungs.

 

Speaker 1 01:11:57

Right, even labored breathing and perhaps even more so.

 

Speaker 2 01:12:01

Yeah, they bring in character witnesses, not always.

 

Speaker 4 01:12:05

just inject water into someone’s lungs first, and then.

 

Speaker 2 01:12:10

It’s the location tip of the day. There you go. If you’re on the MS Star Dancer.

 

Speaker 1 01:12:15

Oh, my God.

 

Speaker 2 01:12:16

it’s called now, Island Escape. They bring in character witnesses, obviously not Bill Price, it’s right. No, no. No, probably Bill’s out. Wait, there’s still people-

 

Speaker 4 01:12:25

that are willing to testify on Lonnie’s behalf?

 

Speaker 1 01:12:28

Well, Bill actually testified for the crossing.

 

Speaker 4 01:12:32

Yeah, but I’m saying you said they brought in character witnesses. Oh against Lonnie. No, he brought he had a couple of people

 

Speaker 2 01:12:37

people come in. Whoo!

 

Speaker 1 01:12:39

Like relatives? Yeah.

 

Speaker 2 01:12:40

I don’t remember exactly who.

 

Speaker 4 01:12:42

Yeah. I mean, I don’t know him very well, but he seems, he seems as well. We play online dominoes.

 

Speaker 2 01:12:47

He was always nice when he came in to fill his car for gas.

 

Speaker 4 01:12:51

We play online backgammon together. We chat. Right. So, but this is all stacking up against him pretty, pretty hard. Doesn’t look good.

 

Speaker 1 01:13:02

It really doesn’t. And he’s on trial. He will be sentenced. And the trial, interestingly enough, after all those years would happen and have to be delayed because of COVID.

 

Speaker 4 01:13:18

Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. So that’s that.

 

Speaker 2 01:13:20

That’s an interesting thing. So he was arrested in 2013. Right. And it takes almost seven years to get to trial because there’s so much.

 

Speaker 1 01:13:29

It was a 14 year investigation.

 

Speaker 2 01:13:32

Yeah, and there’s so much preach.

 

Speaker 1 01:13:35

trial since 2013.

 

Speaker 4 01:13:38

Oh, he was in jail the whole time. Right.

 

Speaker 2 01:13:41

Well, because he’s, he’s in jail and you know, you’re supposed to go to a speedy trial, but he’s constantly, uh, adding, yes, he’s not helping his case, but he’s doing all kinds of motions about the admissibility of evidence.

 

Speaker 2 01:13:54

He’s constantly trying to change the venue. He’s doing all kinds of pretrial motions. I mean, it’s just, he’s, he’s endlessly delaying this thing, trying to come up with any way to get out of it. And then the, when they,

 

Speaker 4 01:14:07

is a modern day equivalent.

 

Speaker 2 01:14:10

But anyway, and then there’s, you know, both sides have to do all kinds of evidence gathering and all this and the FBI and the international water part doesn’t help. And the new pathologist. So it takes years.

 

Speaker 2 01:14:20

And when it finally goes to trial, it’s, it starts in March of 2020 and then has to be delayed for the thick.

 

Speaker 1 01:14:28

of it. Yeah. Okay. And he was delayed and then they reconvened. And he would be ultimately sentenced on April 18th, 2020, after being found guilty of life in prison without the possibility of parole.

 

Speaker 4 01:14:50

Oh, so it was only a month.

 

Speaker 2 01:14:52

I think it was delayed for two or three months while they figured out how to do trials on.

 

Speaker 4 01:14:56

You know, right. Okay. So they finally got them. Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s just a litany of things at this point though. Right.

 

Speaker 2 01:15:04

Yeah. I mean, they really just go for the murder of Mickey murder of Mickey and they don’t actually even

 

Speaker 1 01:15:11

go with the attempted murder of Amy? No, no, because they have enough at this point. The autopsy and the reports, he was done.

 

Speaker 4 01:15:23

Does Amy even know about it or is she going to find out from this show? I’m sure she knows. OK, good.

 

Speaker 2 01:15:29

You know, and in fact, one of the guys, Maverick, who got out early because of this, because I was curious, where did these guys end up?

 

Speaker 1 01:15:37

I did not. I did. What the flight school?

 

Speaker 2 01:15:39

No, attempted to murder his pregnant girlfriend with a car ran over her a bunch of times.

 

Speaker 1 01:15:46

Who? Which one? Maverick. Maverick. I’m glad they let him out early. I wonder what happened with Anthony King.

 

Speaker 2 01:15:51

Anthony King, who was convicted of the murders of three people in July of 1988, was granted parole February 5th, 2020.

 

Speaker 1 01:16:00

Oh, OK. That’s a lot of people to be killing.

 

Speaker 2 01:16:04

around when this was all going down. So maybe his cooperation in this was helpful.

 

Speaker 4 01:16:11

Yeah, I would say, you know, I don’t love the idea of letting bad people out because they’ve ratted out other bad people. I feel like let them have the kosher meal in jail or something. You know, you’re like, let’s find other ways to extra time in the yard.

 

Speaker 4 01:16:26

Here’s some cigarettes or something. You know, I don’t think they should be let out.

 

Speaker 2 01:16:30

No, but I’m gonna just slightly counter that, so he was 16 when he did these murders, and they said, you know, he was in jail for, you know, a long time, and they said that they felt like he’d just done a complete turnaround from when he was a teenager, that these were…

 

Speaker 1 01:16:48

Now that’s what I like to hear. Really? Well, it’s somebody doing better.

 

Speaker 4 01:16:54

I don’t know. I mean, I, I, I get it on one hand on the other hand.

 

Speaker 2 01:16:59

Yeah, it’s tough because it kills people. Yeah, I mean, and murder is…

 

Speaker 1 01:17:03

Yeah, that’s true.

 

Speaker 4 01:17:05

Alright, so take away who wants to start you start me never start I Mean, here’s the thing. It plays into what you always say Kim. Well, first of all, there was red flags up the wazoo, you know Mickey Knows that this is a bad dude and this whole vacation to reconcile is never a good idea like what you always say yeah, and there was just so many red flags and You can’t go on that trip, you know, I I was always again.

 

Speaker 4 01:17:37

Yeah, it’s always like blaming the victim It’s like it’s not blaming the victim. It’s using it as a PSA an example a cautionary tale. Mm -hmm, you know, it’s like This guy, you know Lonnie is just bad news.

 

Speaker 4 01:17:53

Yeah, so you can’t you got away I mean you I mean I know the divorce was to protect assets, which is ridiculous as also But it’s like he’s being accused of this. He’s done other things in the past and now he’s taking you on this crazy cruise Yeah, you can’t you gotta just you just gotta see the red flags and not go for it

 

Speaker 1 01:18:17

I mean, I, you know, I was also curious about how much she knew about his criminal activity and his clearly, she was aware of the accusations made against him regarding his situation with the right. And I wonder how you get past that.

 

Speaker 1 01:18:40

I mean, I guess he denied it and said, that’s not true. There was a misunderstanding, but.

 

Speaker 4 01:18:48

There was another woman in between and I mean like we broke up to protect assets and then right he married somebody else Right, and then he did a whole thing with you while he was with her and then he’s back with you Right, but also didn’t you say she came to him?

 

Speaker 4 01:19:03

And she had accused she had evidence about him. Mm -hmm, right? So she she know he apparently

 

Speaker 1 01:19:11

was involved with some embezzlement with the company.

 

Speaker 2 01:19:14

right right yeah I didn’t understand why she would want him back rather than use that to say give me the house I know

 

Speaker 4 01:19:21

They each had insurance on each other. He killed her before she had a chance to kill him Maybe check her hard drive

 

Speaker 1 01:19:35

hilarious. But no, I mean, it’s pretty crazy. I am curious if people consider that the person they’re with is of good moral character. And if you have any questions about that, that you’re like, wait a minute, you did what?

 

Speaker 1 01:19:55

Is that boat still in service? No, that boat was actually…

 

Speaker 2 01:20:01

I thought we could do a slakation tour on the boat. I know I had the same thoughts. I was like, we could invite 30 of our slakators to go on this cruise.

 

Speaker 3 01:20:10

That’s what I was thinking.

 

Speaker 2 01:20:12

Be sick, but no, it’s unfortunately out of service.

 

Speaker 1 01:20:15

We can rebuild it. Yeah, it was scrapped and, uh, yeah.

 

Speaker 4 01:20:20

Yeah. What do you got, Jerry? What’s your takeaway?

 

Speaker 2 01:20:22

My takeaway is the house, man. They got this nice big three or four bedroom house in Los Angeles, trying to protect their assets. My advice would be sell it and split it. No, my, my advice would be rent the house, you know, take the, uh, it’s, you could probably rent for, you know, six to 8 ,000 a month, which would recover your mortgage.

 

Speaker 2 01:20:40

That’s my takeaway is, you know, if you own a house and you’re breaking up, it might make more sense to keep the house as a rental. And, uh,

 

Speaker 4 01:20:50

I don’t know. You’re probably better off just selling it and splitting the money and getting

 

Speaker 1 01:20:55

So only because it’s better to completely cut ties. If one can’t buy the other out, if she couldn’t buy him out, then it would probably have been better for them to just sell it and then split it, which is what he wanted to do.

 

Speaker 2 01:21:12

We wanted to, but I’m just saying like 2006, late 2006 was a bad time to be selling real estate in California. That was the market was starting to slump.

 

Speaker 4 01:21:22

Then your landlords and then like the toilets broken who’s got to fix it

 

Speaker 2 01:21:26

Yeah, but you can take an equity loan out of the house and buy another property. So you could have started to, I don’t know, maybe it just seems like protecting assets, the divorce, like all of it just seems, because she was pretty savvy with money, but it seems like whatever path they were on with the money and everything just didn’t, just doesn’t, sounds kind of screwed up.

 

Speaker 2 01:21:50

Yeah.

 

Speaker 4 01:21:52

But also the fact that she came back to him and got him.

 

Speaker 2 01:21:58

Yeah, that’s the part I don’t understand like if she had incriminating evidence and this whole history with this guy Maybe she was just in love with him. I mean, maybe she was really in love with him

 

Speaker 1 01:22:09

Well, what else could it be? That’s the only thing it could be, right? Yeah, like you can… I think they were gonna try to murder each other. That’s your theory. You’re like, she was gonna do it, but he got to her first.

 

Speaker 1 01:22:19

It’s like a great plot.

 

Speaker 2 01:22:20

That’s a great plot. It’s where the roses, basically, right?

 

Speaker 4 01:22:23

Well, they weren’t trying to kill each other. They just couldn’t get along. But I’m saying like a plot where they like, they each get insurance on each other and they go on a cruise and the whole time they’re trying to off each other.

 

Speaker 4 01:22:34

Yeah. And by the end they fall in love for real. And then the ship sinks and they both die.

 

Speaker 1 01:22:39

copy. So the island escape would go into would be the ocean gala for a couple of years from there’s the boats yet from 2015 to 2017. And then the ocean gala one 2017 to 2018. And in 2018, on the 4th of April, it would be destroyed would be scrapped.

 

Speaker 1 01:23:04

Yeah, right.

 

Speaker 4 01:23:06

people. Well, do we have any other episodes coming up? No, that’s the gift that keeps on.

 

Speaker 1 01:23:13

No, no, no, that’s, it was, isn’t that enough? But yeah, so my takeaway, can anybody guess?

 

Speaker 2 01:23:20

Your takeaway

 

Speaker 1 01:23:22

is don’t go on vacation to revitalize a soured relationship. Just don’t do it. If you think there’s a chance, go on separate vacations and Zoom maybe once or twice for an hour away from each other. But by no means go on vacation with that person.

 

Speaker 1 01:23:48

Just don’t do it.

 

Speaker 4 01:23:50

especially on a ship.

 

Speaker 2 01:23:54

No international waters. Yeah, no.

 

Speaker 1 01:23:58

It’s it’s

 

Speaker 4 01:23:59

did they ever officially piece together what they think happened like he the ambient thing was a was a lie he actually killed her in the cabin and dragged her up to the deck did they ever piece that together and i think

 

Speaker 1 01:24:10

think that she was beaten and strangled and is thrown off the deck exactly the room yeah the room deck gotcha and that she was dead before she hit the water gotcha

 

Speaker 4 01:24:23

All right. Well, that’s our show. Thanks for listening. Thank you, guys. Join our Slakators only Facebook group. Yes. You can find us on. Say hi. Slakation dot WTF with the sole possessors of the fabled dot WTF.

 

Speaker 4 01:24:47

And we’ll catch you on the next one.

 

Speaker 1 01:24:51

Bye guys. See you at Facebook. See you at the next one.