Speaker 1 00:00
I’m used to having you, like, in my head. Check, check, check, check, check, check, boom.
Speaker 2 00:04
Check it out.
Speaker 3 00:04
What is going on? I did notice they were burning sage in the studio today. Usually they wait till I leave. [“Vacation All I Ever Want Is A Vacation”] Pack your body bags. We’re going on a Slaycation. These are murders and mysterious deaths that happen while you’re on vacation.
Speaker 3 00:31
I am your co -host, Adam Tex Davis. And as always, I’m joined by the woman. Yes, more Kim Davis. Yes. In the house. My lovely wife. And, hi, Jerry.
Speaker 2 00:43
Hey, Jerry. Hey, Kim. Hi, Adam. So good to see you. And you’re tolerable.
Speaker 3 00:49
And before we start, last week’s case was at a resort in Cancun and it reminded me of a story. I thought about telling it during the show, but there was no place to stick it in, but I thought it would be funny to talk about it for a second.
Speaker 3 01:04
So Kim and I, about 20 years ago, we stayed at a club med in Cancun, which is a whole nother story. I’ll tell that another time why we were there. But one day we decided to walk along the beach and we kind of wandered off of the resort property.
Speaker 3 01:20
And you could tell, you know, it’s like, suddenly it’s not as nice, the grounds aren’t maintained, there’s litter. And then we nearly trip over a man who’s just lying on the beach, half buried in the sand.
Speaker 3 01:32
And for a second, I thought it was, oh my God, there’s a dead body. Until he suddenly just sits up and smiles at us and goes, hey, you guys want to buy some jewelry? And he immediately starts pulling trinkets and stuff out of the pockets of his rolled up jeans.
Speaker 3 01:48
And he starts laying them out on a scrap of blanket next to him. And he’s not wearing a shirt. His skin is like wrinkled, dark leather. His eyes are totally bloodshot. There’s bottles of alcohol all around him.
Speaker 3 01:59
And Kim feels bad and she’s like, let’s buy something.
Speaker 1 02:03
I’m such a sucker.
Speaker 3 02:04
And she’s like, she picks out an ankle bracelet. So I give him 10 bucks. And he was like, oh, that’s great. And then he was like, where are you staying? Are you staying nearby? And he asked if we would get him some food.
Speaker 3 02:15
So I was like, yeah, sure. It’s an all -you -can -eat buffet. I will come back with a basket of food and bring you, what do you like? You’re like nachos, you like hamburgers. He’s like, yeah, all of that.
Speaker 2 02:24
First of all, I gotta say I love that you’re like now fetching food for this guy who needs food. That’s very sweet
Speaker 3 02:30
Then he goes, hey, you want to buy some weed or shrooms or coke? And I’m like, you know what? I’m good. And, uh, we start to turn away and he goes, Hey, you want to go parasailing? Oh my God. Points to a rowboat that has an outboard motor on the back and there’s a, uh, a patched up parasail draped over it.
Speaker 3 02:54
And I’m just thinking, you know what? I was thinking last week, I was like, that would be a great way to wind up on our show.
Speaker 2 03:01
For sure. For sure. The passed -out drug -dealing guy with a rowboat taking you very seriously. That doesn’t mean that at all.
Speaker 3 03:08
So anyway, a big shout out to Ramon who is now your your father -in -law
Speaker 2 03:12
Right?
Speaker 3 03:14
But, yeah, and then I came back and he was there, I gave him a basket of food, I took everything. Oh my gosh. And he was so happy. You still have the ankle bracelet, honey?
Speaker 1 03:25
I sure I do stuffed in a box somewhere safe and sound right.
Speaker 3 03:31
Anyway, thought that would be a fun story. That’s a good story. I want to say also, before we begin, our Slaycators only group is loud and proud and growing.
Speaker 1 03:41
Yes. Shout out to my girl, Laura, representing the knitters in the house. Gotta love it. And yarn isn’t hoarding, I’d like to spread the message. Yarn is not hoarding. No. Yarn.
Speaker 2 03:54
And horroring is fantastic.
Speaker 1 03:56
It’s all good stuff. It’s all good. I’m trying to figure out now as we’re packing what to do with the yarn, but I know it’s coming.
Speaker 3 04:03
And 90 percent of what we have to find a new home for is yarn or yarn related. Yeah. And then he’s going.
Speaker 1 04:10
gonna start a fight and go, are you gonna use it? It’s not the point. You might use it. Don’t exactly. You might. It’s not about having to use it. We are not negotiating.
Speaker 2 04:21
I get, like, it’s not hoarding. It’s that every piece of yarn you’ve ever purchased. Correct, Carrie. Thank you.
Speaker 1 04:27
Thank you for understanding.
Speaker 3 04:28
Yeah, I get it and yet my empty hot sauce bottles are hoarding. Yes
Speaker 2 04:32
100% hoarding right you had the hot sauce you’re not gonna do anything with the bottle There’s no future use for the bottle because yarn has a future use
Speaker 3 04:40
There’s a hot sauce called…
Speaker 2 04:41
Megasaurus. Yeah, it’s fun. But you know, you don’t need to see the bottle a lot. Surfart’s a lot. You don’t need to see the bottle to remember Megasaurus.
Speaker 1 04:51
Yeah. All right. Yeah, they have crazy names in this hot sauce.
Speaker 2 04:55
Here’s something I’d like to mention, so we’d love to get some more reviews, reviews on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Help us a lot. It helps grow the show.
Speaker 3 05:03
We’re like ego and we need our number to be high
Speaker 2 05:07
It actually helps the algorithm. The algorithm likes to see reviews and we, you know, you guys have left some great reviews But if you’re new to the show or not new to the show and you haven’t left review take 10 seconds Leave it on your preferred platform.
Speaker 2 05:18
Show us some love. We love Spotify We love the folks over there, but we also love the Apple platform So wherever you want to leave a review five stars great and say something nice about us or not Just say something say anything
Speaker 3 05:32
are good reviews are better. Yes. But we are like right on the precipice of getting into the 4 .0 which which helps you elevate you in the eyes of the podcast platform.
Speaker 2 05:43
Absolutely, and also leaving a good review for us is revenge on all of those people that have left us the one star reviews because we’re too funny and we don’t take it serious enough. So that’s the haters.
Speaker 3 05:54
Right? The less kimmers. Yeah, correct. That’s the less cameras.
Speaker 1 05:58
moment to just, yeah, all right.
Speaker 3 06:01
that I wrote that anyway we’re about to dive into our story I know nothing about the case Kim and Jerry have researched the case they’re gonna tell it to me I’m gonna learn along with you the listener and let’s get into it Kim where will we be slaking today let’s do this
Speaker 2 06:23
I do want to just say before you jump into where we’re slaking, this is the first one we’ve done where I’m like, I wonder if Adam knows this one. Did you wonder that? I did. We didn’t have that convo.
Speaker 1 06:35
You did, at least even if peripherally. Yeah. I think I…
Speaker 2 06:39
them. He wouldn’t. Most of them are, but this one, I think he might have a little bit of a like, oh, I’ve heard of this. So I’m curious. So this might be one, typically you don’t know anything. You might know a little bit about this one or not.
Speaker 2 06:50
Or you might be like, you guys are crazy.
Speaker 3 06:53
what I do and do not know. Okay.
Speaker 1 06:54
That’s true. Well, today, our location vacation takes place in the beautiful seaside resort of Puerto de Galinas. Oh, I know this one.
Speaker 2 07:07
No, I’m kidding. I saw that coming a mile away and it was still funny.
Speaker 1 07:10
approximately 40 miles south of the state capital of Recife, per Numbuco, Brazil, on the northeastern Atlantic coast of South America. So the name Porto de Leonis, which translates to Port of Hens, originated in the mid 19th century, when the town became a hub for illegal slave trade.
Speaker 1 07:33
Great Britain had outlawed slavery during this time, and they were making life harder for those countries that were continuing the slave trading. And Brazil would actually be the last to abolish slavery with the Lia Herua law, which translates in English, the golden law on May 13th, 1888.
Speaker 1 07:57
But prior to that, and with international pressure mounting, Brazil continued the slave trade by transporting slaves with guinea hens. The slaves were hidden under the cages and the ships traveling from Africa.
Speaker 1 08:13
When the ships would arrive in the port, the traffickers or the ship’s crew created the password, which was, there are new hens in port, announcing the arrival of more slaves, hence the name Porta de Galena.
Speaker 1 08:29
So yeah, a little history. So today, Porta de Galena is a popular tourist destination recognized for its abundance of coconut trees, warm natural pools, beautiful coral reefs, colorful fish, and diverse marine wildlife, and host to clear water beaches and voted by readers of voyage and tourism, Brazilian magazine, Best Brazilian Beach, for the eighth year in a row, and makes a great spot for diving and snorkeling.
Speaker 1 09:03
And what distinguishes Porta de Galena from other beach towns is it’s more laid back, more charming, relaxing vibe. So it’s just, you go there, you kick back, and you’re just relaxing, no crazy nightlife, no, yeah.
Speaker 1 09:21
So it’s- So not Cancun. Right, exactly, exactly. So it was July of 2009, when retired Italian -Canadian boxer, Arturo Gotti. Oh, Arturo Gotti, yeah.
Speaker 3 09:38
I don’t know the case, I know him, and I know shady shit happened with him. That’s correct. And we are about to fail.
Speaker 1 09:46
I figured this one, you may have like, oh, okay. So Arturo and his wife, Amanda, along with their 10 month old son, with suitcases in hand, boarded a plane for a Sifi, Brazil, for some much needed time away.
Speaker 1 10:02
It was reported that the couple had planned this, it was sort of their second honeymoon to reconnect, recharge and begin to rebuild their relationship.
Speaker 3 10:14
Right, now he was recently retired, right? Yes.
Speaker 1 10:17
Yes, exactly. So, Arturo Thunder Gotti was born on April 15th, 1972, the second of three children born to Ida and Giovanni Gotti in Casino Italy, about 100 miles north of Naples. Although some sources cite Gotti’s birthplace as Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
Speaker 1 10:39
So, we know that Arturo, his older brother, Joe, and his younger brother, Fabrizio, grew up in Montreal, though. A dad, Giovanni, was an electrician by trade and a boxing enthusiast. Legend has it he knocked out a mule with one punch.
Speaker 1 10:58
Maybe it’s the DNA. As older brother, Joe Gotti…
Speaker 3 11:01
It takes four or five punches to knock out a mule.
Speaker 2 11:04
I’ve never been able to knock out a mule. Me neither. What did the mule do, by the way? That’s a good question.
Speaker 1 11:11
do to deserve skin knocked out.
Speaker 3 11:12
think it was just showing off. Oh, okay. Let me bring me a
Speaker 1 11:15
mule. Let me show you something. What is a mule?
Speaker 2 11:19
What’s that? What is a mule? Is that a kind of a horse?
Speaker 1 11:22
a cross between a donkey and a horse cross. It’s a donkey and a horse. Yes, yes. Well, anyway, Arturo was an athletic kid. He played hockey and soccer and would have his first amateur boxing match at eight and Gotti’s career spanned from 1991 to 2007.
Speaker 1 11:42
At eight, you said? Yeah, amateur. I mean, his dad would have them, him and his brothers. Knocked out a chicken. Well, I don’t know about all that, but so Gotti’s career spanned from 91 to 2007, during which time he would go on to win a world championship in two weight divisions and acquire the nickname Thunder for his explosive action and thunderous exchanges and knockouts.
Speaker 1 12:09
The nickname, fans agree, fell right into line with his aggressive and powerful fighting style.
Speaker 3 12:15
He was also like, he would take a beating and keep going. And he would bleed constantly, like almost instantly. And but he would beg not to take an ass with him, but he would never stop the fight. Like he would just keep going.
Speaker 3 12:30
Yeah, no, it was.
Speaker 2 12:31
It’s interesting, the one thing, he had three fights against Ward, Mickey Ward, which is the Irish Mickey Ward, which is a guy that Mark Wahlberg made the fighter about. They each won one of the first two.
Speaker 2 12:43
And they thought that Gotti would lose the third one because he broke his hand during the fight. He said, no, I’m going to keep going. And he ends up winning the fight with a broken hand. I was like, that’s insane.
Speaker 2 12:55
Keep fighting is already insane. Somehow he won.
Speaker 3 12:58
No, he was a monster. He was kind of unstoppable. But yeah, who was it? I guess he lost to… I was really rooting for him when he fought against Mayweather. He couldn’t do it. No, he was like he’s old school, take a beating, go late rounds, lose decisions, stay in fights that he had no business being in.
Speaker 3 13:19
So he was like a true warrior. Thanks, Freddy Pacheco.
Speaker 1 13:25
He certainly was a force to be reckoned with.
Speaker 3 13:28
Yeah, so now he’s retired and he’s going to this Brazilian chill not party place
Speaker 1 13:33
Right, with his wife, Amanda. So Arturo began seeing Amanda Rodriguez not long after the ending of a previous relationship with a woman by the name of Erika Rivera, with whom he shared a daughter. According to Amanda, she and Arturo met in Hoboken, New Jersey, the summer of 2006, while they were walking their dogs.
Speaker 1 13:56
However, Laura is, they actually met in a Jersey strip club.
Speaker 2 14:00
Weehawken strip club called The Squeeze Box. Oh, wow. I may or may not have heard of that place. Just throwing that out there, see if anyone knows it. Closed currently. And the story of they met walking dogs came out during all of the sort of press and drama around this and a lot of people have said she was trying to kind of whitewash her image and they were like, the guy who owned The Squeeze Box is like,
Speaker 2 14:23
they met here, she was on the pole and he came in and they met and that’s how they met.
Speaker 3 14:27
But then she had to take her dog out back to walk the dog away. Maybe that’s the move. When she crawls down the stage, it’s called walking.
Speaker 2 14:37
and he was also walking his dog.
Speaker 3 14:39
Well, he was sitting there putting out money like treats petting the pony anyway.
Speaker 1 14:43
Sorry, Kim. I suspect that a good Catholic girl with a son doesn’t want that to be her image, so maybe that’s why. Wait, did she work?
Speaker 3 14:50
work at the squeeze box or not? Unclear. It is unclear. So, so, so. And she denies this.
Speaker 1 14:55
to the point where- Categorically denied.
Speaker 3 14:56
Sorry. The nice the dog or the nice the squeeze box?
Speaker 2 15:00
She denies that she worked at the squeeze box. Many people have said, not like that, have corroborated that she worked there, but she is so intent, even after all this stuff goes down that we’re gonna get into, where she actually sued newspapers for saying that she worked at the squeeze box.
Speaker 2 15:15
But again, I go back to like, what is the big deal? Like if you work as an exotic dancer, lots of people do that to put themselves through school or pay their bills or whatever you need. Like it’s not a big deal.
Speaker 2 15:24
So I don’t know why she saw it as a thing to hide, but. However, if our daughter.
Speaker 3 15:30
is applying to work at the Squizbox, we will not be happy.
Speaker 2 15:34
Well, no, because it’s permanently closed. Right. Right. She needs to find an establishment that’s open and currently has customers. Good point.
Speaker 1 15:43
I’m gonna say it and also it’s gonna say I’m gonna move on. I’m not even so concerned about the stripping It’s the people that go there. Sure. Anyway, what about us? Anyway, so Amanda Rodriguez and Arturo Gatti got married on August 22nd 2007 at the Grand Canyon just a little over a month after Arturo retired
Speaker 3 16:10
The actual Grand Canyon, that’s not another club. No, no, no.
Speaker 2 16:14
Which I have to say, for where this all goes, the Grand Canyon is like the most metaphorical, like… Yeah. Oof. Yeah. Okay. Also worth mentioning, so they got married within a year, actually less than a year after they met, either at an exotic club or walking dogs.
Speaker 2 16:35
And he was very keen to, he had this daughter with Erika? Yes. And he was very keen to have a son. He really wanted a boy. So that was very much on his mind.
Speaker 3 16:45
Gotcha. And then how old was his daughter at that?
Speaker 1 16:47
She was still a baby. She was under two at that time, and he had just split with Erica, I believe, not long after he and Amanda met. Okay. So off they go? Yes, yes. And Arturo retired with a record of 40 wins, nine losses, not bad.
Speaker 1 17:05
And it was interesting. Gati had insisted on a prenup, but it was reported that he decided to tear up that agreement just days after returning from their 2007 wedding.
Speaker 3 17:19
Yeah, and he’s taken so many beatings
Speaker 1 17:23
But some sources say that Gotti made sure that the prenup was still valid and even reached out to a lawyer to send over a copy when their relationship hit a snag.
Speaker 2 17:35
Just as a little side note for legal advice for anyone listening, if you have a prenup or any other kind of contract and you make a big show of like, I’m tearing this up. It’s not even real anymore. Look at me.
Speaker 2 17:45
I’m tearing it up. See? That’s not actually how you invalidate a contract. I just want to like side note. It’s not a lawyer.
Speaker 1 17:53
Right, right. But it’s kind of strange.
Speaker 3 17:54
Telling up our marriage license. No, I don’t have time.
Speaker 1 17:57
That is not true. Telling stories.
Speaker 2 18:00
It’s as long as there’s a signed document on file somewhere. I mean, there isn’t just one paper copy that could be written. It’s a very dramatic thing to do, but it has absolutely no legal meaning at all.
Speaker 3 18:11
That’s like when you take the the help wanted sign out of the window and you walk in and you hand it to the guy like You’re not necessarily like you help is no longer wanted. I’ve arrived. There you go Alright, you know what?
Speaker 3 18:21
This sounds like a great place to take a break. We’ll be right back
Speaker 4 18:27
Hi, I’m Matt Harris. Seton Tucker and I post the podcast Impact of Influence, which for two years covered in depth, Alec Murdoch, who was eventually convicted in 2023 of murdering his wife Maggie and son Paul.
Speaker 4 18:40
That story continues to evolve and we will cover that. Plus, we will tell you stories of other true crime events that have happened in the South. Please join us on Impact of Influence and give us a follow on the Impact of Influence Facebook page.
Speaker 1 18:56
And we’re back. Woo hoo. All right. So Amanda and Arturo had a very tumultuous relationship. It was fraught with fighting. And it just sounded that they were pretty awful to each other. Oh. Yeah. In April 2009, Arturo was charged with assaulting his wife.
Speaker 1 19:17
He would miss the court date the following month, which led to another arrest at a Montreal strip club, where he was reportedly celebrating his birthday. He paid a $2 ,000 bond under the condition to abstain from alcohol and drugs, which was so clearly his Achilles’ heel.
Speaker 1 19:36
And strip clubs. And strip clubs. And it was no secret that the couple had a very difficult and stormy relationship. And his overindulgence of alcohol did not help it. His alcoholism actually caused him.
Speaker 1 19:54
He had trouble with the law as a result of it. And it even resulted in the suspension of his license, his driver’s license, for 10 years. Oh.
Speaker 2 20:06
That doesn’t mean he had a boxing license. No, that’s right. Because in 10 years prior to meeting Amanda, he’d had three drunk driving convictions in three different states. So they took his license.
Speaker 3 20:17
I mean, the guy gets the shit kicked out of him in 49 fights.
Speaker 2 20:22
He’s famously known as a party boy, in fact. One of his friends was like, if you were anywhere near boxing during the time he was around in the tri -state area, you had a story of partying with Arturo.
Speaker 3 20:35
Irish Mickey Ward was like, he drinks too much.
Speaker 2 20:39
Irish Mickey Ward had a really sweet story about him, actually. Yes, I did. Oh, I’m sure, yeah. Really sweet. So, you know, you always think, like, guys are boxing, you don’t really think of, like, oh, maybe they’d know each other outside the ring, well…
Speaker 1 20:51
became really good friends.
Speaker 2 20:52
Really good friends. Yeah, Mickey and Arturo, over the course of these three fights, became close. And after that third fight, when Mickey Ward was really beat up and Arturo had broken his hand, they were stitching, the ER doctor was like working on Mickey Ward.
Speaker 2 21:07
He said, oh, there’s someone here to see you. And he opens the curtain and it’s Arturo Gotti who’s also getting worked on. And the first thing he says is, Mickey, are you okay? You’re doing all right.
Speaker 2 21:17
And so it’s like, that’s kind of sweet, you know? Like, sweet. Yeah, it is very endearing. And, you know, some of his friends, did you come across Tony Rizzo? Yeah. Tony Rizzo, which is Zella Minera.
Speaker 2 21:29
I mean, these names are incredible, right? So these are two of his old friends, of Arturo’s old friends. And they were like, everybody parties, you know, what’s the big deal? We all had some drinks. I wouldn’t say he’s an alcoholic.
Speaker 2 21:42
We all like to have some drinks. We all like to party. But meanwhile, the guy has, Arturo has had enough issues with drinking and driving that his license has been suspended. For 10 years. And he’d had a fight with a cop at one point.
Speaker 2 21:55
More than once. How was he doing money wise? Great. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 3 22:01
You didn’t waste his money. No, he had.
Speaker 2 22:03
He had like somewhere between four and six million dollars. All right. That’s good. I don’t know if he’d wasted his money or not. I don’t know how much he’d had, but this isn’t a case. He wasn’t a broke.
Speaker 2 22:14
No. This is a guy who actually had money in the bank and had a real meaningful estate.
Speaker 3 22:19
OK, so yeah, he’s had a he’s had a rough marital life with the new girl.
Speaker 2 22:24
Well, it’s not just the marital life, it’s that his final fight was in 2007. And it had not been a great situation for the year or two leading up to that. He was battered, he was fighting younger guys, he just wasn’t holding his own.
Speaker 2 22:38
And as you understand, this is a guy who, for him, fighting and winning was everything since he was eight years old. So to lose fights, his former trainer said it was a knife through the heart every time he lost.
Speaker 2 22:50
And then to not be able to fight at all and when he become a real estate agent, right? Yeah. And like Montreal. Yeah, that’s right. So now he’s like a real estate agent. This is just not a recipe for great mental health.
Speaker 1 23:06
Right.
Speaker 3 23:07
And nothing will kick your ass like fucking Realty. Right. You can’t close that property. No, like that’s, I’d rather lose in the ring.
Speaker 2 23:16
And in Canada, it’s Canadian Realty, so it’s like you’re only making 63% of the money.
Speaker 1 23:22
So, the couple is in Brazil trying to reconnect, and on Friday, July 10th, 2009, the couple had gone out to dinner, went to a bar for drinks, and witnesses had told the authorities that the couple had gotten into an argument outside of pizzeria.
Speaker 1 23:38
It was reported that earlier in the evening, Gotti had consumed a significant amount of alcohol, and that a fight erupted when Amanda expressed that she didn’t wish to continue bar hopping. And angry, Gotti had lashed out and pushed Amanda, and she fell to the ground, sustaining minor injuries to her chin and elbow.
Speaker 1 24:00
And a large crowd had gathered as a result of the commotion and began to surround and attack him. Yeah, with fists, some threw rocks, and allegedly somebody had even thrown a bicycle at him. Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 24:16
The baby was sleeping nearby, that’s weird, but the baby was there in the mix. And Amanda had recounted that Gotti would not allow her to take the baby with her, so she left and went back to the resort where they were staying.
Speaker 1 24:32
Following the brawl, Arturo made his way back to the hotel. He had actually taken a cab, and the cab driver had noticed that he was bloodied. And in fact, he had even left bloodstains in the cab.
Speaker 2 24:48
With the baby, by the way. Right, yeah. He’s got the baby. He’s got the baby. Yeah, he wouldn’t let, because he’s so close to Arturo Jr., he didn’t want her to take the baby back to the hotel, so he has the baby with him while he’s bleeding all over.
Speaker 3 25:00
they were bar hopping with a baby. Correct. And he wanted to keep drinking. Yeah.
Speaker 2 25:05
They were just like out having dinner, but he wanted to keep going.
Speaker 1 25:10
And she was like, no, let’s go home. And that started off.
Speaker 3 25:13
whole thing, and he shoved her, and then Rod attacked him.
Speaker 2 25:16
came also. Crapst had come and took some pictures of her injuries and all that. But yeah, he was bleeding badly.
Speaker 3 25:23
Yeah. That’s his MO. Right. He’s a breeder.
Speaker 1 25:27
Yeah, so there they are, you know, the couple, they exchange words with the Toro reportedly asking Amanda if their relationship was over and she responded that it indeed was. Who said that? Toro had asked Amanda if the relationship was over.
Speaker 1 25:42
Oh, after he got back to the… Like after they had got back to the hotel and they’re probably just rolling their eyes at each other. And she said, yes, this relationship is over. We can’t keep doing this.
Speaker 1 25:53
She took the baby, called it a night.
Speaker 2 25:54
He also, you know, I read that she, she claims that he, um, saw her injuries on her. It was her elbow and her jaw and said, who, who did this to you? She was like, you, you did this because he goes into these, these rages.
Speaker 3 26:10
Oh, like blackout almost where he’s like not.
Speaker 2 26:12
that present of mind as to what he’s doing.
Speaker 1 26:16
So before sunrise, at about 6 a .m. the next morning, Amanda, on her way to get a bottle for the baby, noted that her husband, Cladden only his underwear, was crumpled to the floor. She made a way around him to retrieve the baby’s morning feed.
Speaker 1 26:31
And she wasn’t alarmed, as this was not uncommon after a night of drinking for him to just be sort of splattered on the ground, just, you know, he was just kind of there, often a pile of himself and a drunken stupor.
Speaker 1 26:46
And annoyed by the previous day’s event, she would barely really look at him and just went right back upstairs. At approximately 9 a .m., Amanda reported that she, with baby in tow, was getting ready to leave.
Speaker 1 27:00
And she had called out to Arturo, announcing to him that she was leaving. And he didn’t respond. And she would walk over to him and shake him, and noted that he was cold to the touch. She further observed that Arturo was not only just cold, but lay face down with a pool of blood surrounding his head.
Speaker 1 27:22
And there was reportedly a knife nearby. you
Speaker 3 27:26
Wait, a knife nearby? Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2 27:29
I’m going to show you the knife. The knife is also next to something else that Kim’s going to tell you about. This is on the floor near him.
Speaker 3 27:37
Okay, so it’s like a cooking type of knife. It looks like a boning knife or something. Yeah, it’s a small thing. And then there’s another strappy, weird thing on the ground. I’m curious what that is.
Speaker 3 27:47
I can’t tell what that is from that picture you just showed me. Are you glad that I can’t tell what it is? Are you glad I don’t have one of them?
Speaker 2 27:53
whatever that is you don’t have a strappy weird thing that goes I don’t know where the lady strappy
Speaker 3 27:58
think? It looks like a thong of some sort. It is not.
Speaker 2 28:02
It’s not a thong of any sorts. Okay, so okay. It’s a purse strap. Oh you
Speaker 1 28:07
Yes. Okay. There’s no purse. Right. No purse, but it’s a purse strap.
Speaker 3 28:12
And not a boxing purse, it’s not his salary. It is not that kind of purse. Right, okay, just making sure. For the four boxing fans listening, they took his purse. All right, so the knife is laying there near him.
Speaker 3 28:25
Does he have stab wounds?
Speaker 1 28:26
We’ll get to that. So, Amanda recalled that she began yelling that she forgave him and to please wake up and she began screaming, my husband is dead, my husband is dead, please, somebody help me.
Speaker 3 28:39
She said, she said that or? Yes.
Speaker 2 28:40
She said, she said.
Speaker 3 28:41
Okay, because nobody else was there to hear that no
Speaker 2 28:44
out into the, opened the door and was yelling this into the resort. Right. Gotcha.
Speaker 1 28:48
So authorities were called and a tour guide he was pronounced dead at the scene July 11th 2009 he was 37 years old 37 Wow
Speaker 3 29:00
You know about him so long that it feels like he’d be much older, but he’s not.
Speaker 1 29:04
Again, his career very, very young. He was even on the Canadian Olympic team in the early 90s. But anyway, so he was found to have blood stains on his neck and on the back of his head and foul play was suspected.
Speaker 1 29:20
But the brawl. Right, could have. You could make that argument. Yes, correct, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3 29:25
and then correct or something and then crack and cussed at yeah
Speaker 1 29:29
Or they found a bicycle in the room. Well, on July 12, 2009.
Speaker 2 29:36
a bicycle. It’s a very little known way to kill someone is just beat them over the head with a bicycle.
Speaker 1 29:44
repeatedly. Yeah. Well, so on July 12th, 2009, Amanda Gotti was arrested for the murder of her husband. Yeah. I remember. Okay. And Brazilian police surmised that Amanda strangled a drunken Gotti with that strappy thing.
Speaker 1 30:01
Right. Yes. There was presumably, which is what we discovered, appeared to be a bloodstained purse strap found near the scene. Consistent, I guess, with the marks around his neck.
Speaker 3 30:12
She covers things up like you do, honey. Just leave it, just leave it. The maid’ll get it.
Speaker 1 30:19
That’s not true. And the lead investigator of this case had openly expressed to the media that Amanda Gotti was the prime suspect in her husband’s death.
Speaker 2 30:32
And she’s denying, of course. She’s in jail in Brazil, which is her home country. And she’s like, I did nothing. She thinks he killed himself.
Speaker 1 30:41
Right, yeah, she pretty much right out.
Speaker 3 30:43
the gate, you know, you could say emotionally, like she’s leaving him and he was in a drunken stupor. He’d just been beaten by an angry mob and, uh, she took the, you know, he’s going to maybe lose his kid.
Speaker 3 30:56
Right. And that was something.
Speaker 1 30:59
That was something that he was really worried about in fact. It was a conversation that he would have with his friend I think it was Rizzo that you had just mentioned before Jerry that he had that concern it was one of the reasons why they were on this trip
Speaker 3 31:15
Well, a lot going on here and we’ll get back to it all right after this quick break and a word from our sponsor All right, sponsor said enough
Speaker 1 31:26
Where are we? What’s going on here? Suspicions were raised regarding Amanda’s culpability. Well, she’s in jail. Right. And a lot of it, too, was the fact that nobody but she and Gotti were in the apartment together.
Speaker 2 31:39
They even checked surveillance cameras at the resort and nobody else entered or left that apartment. So if he was murdered, she’s the only one who could have done it. Also, the other thing just to throw in here is that they’ve had a very rocky relationship and Amanda has not been shy about sharing her feelings, both verbally when she’s upset and also on texts.
Speaker 2 32:01
At one point, Gotti was like calling Amanda a bitch and she was around Rizzo and the other friend, Minera, and she said something like, you wanna see what a bitch is? You wanna see what a bat is? I’m gonna fucking kill you.
Speaker 2 32:13
So she has said things, right? They have a text from her that says something like, he was texting while he was driving and she was like, I hope you crash while you’re texting.
Speaker 1 32:26
Yeah, she would go crazy test -wise. Right.
Speaker 2 32:28
So there’s like a little bit of a history here of her, you know, during times when she’s upset of saying things that sound like she might want him dead. Both of them were just hotheads, right? So like, they’re that couple that fights like crazy and says the worst shit, then they make up for three days and they fight again.
Speaker 2 32:46
It’s not a healthy relationship, but it’s also like…
Speaker 3 32:50
No, nothing about any of that. And that would never happen in October of last year. Kim is a pretty vivid texter.
Speaker 1 33:01
Anyway, moving right along, an interesting.
Speaker 2 33:08
What you’re saying is if you’re found dead, that her texts could be culpable.
Speaker 3 33:15
No, she’s smarter than that. She uses code words.
Speaker 2 33:21
Sleep with the fishes. Okay, so…
Speaker 1 33:24
One interesting footnote was the boxing promoter by the name of Kathy Duva, who was the promoter that worked with Gotti, had recounted that when sharing the news of Gotti’s death, one of his friends had remarked, she finally killed him, which doesn’t necessarily mean she did.
Speaker 1 33:45
It was just interesting that their relationship dynamic would spark a thought upon hearing of his…
Speaker 2 33:52
But I want to say, because I read that also, and there’s a lot of that kind of hearsay, Kim, where someone said this thing and someone said that thing. And I started thinking about like, so she kind of like all these people, the trainers and the friends and the other fighters, they’ve known this guy, they’ve known Arturo for, he’s been around for 20 something years, right?
Speaker 2 34:11
So they have this whole experience of him as this like, he had this other lady he was with who he had a kid with, but like this woman swoops in like right at the end of his career, right? And they fall in love and he seems like he’s really in love with her and it’s a quick engagement, a quick wedding, quick everything, right?
Speaker 2 34:31
And so that’s the kind of thing that if you’re around someone for a long time, you’re automatically like, hmm, your default is gonna be some side eye. And whether that’s fair or not to her, that’s just a default setting for people.
Speaker 2 34:45
It’s like, what’s this woman, what does she want? Why is this moving so fast?
Speaker 3 34:50
Kim doesn’t have front eyes. She only has.
Speaker 2 34:55
Haha
Speaker 1 34:55
I love Kim side out
Speaker 2 34:57
I look like you carry fizz
Speaker 1 34:59
I’m appreciating the accolades and so while Amanda maintained her innocence police investigators continued to work on the assumption that she strangled her husband with a strap of her purse while he slept in a drunken stupor and they believe that she acted alone and it was common knowledge that they fought often and it would often dissolve into domestic violence so when she was jailed her sister took care of their son you know custody was given to her sister right so
Speaker 3 35:36
The sister has the kid, she’s in jail, and the police are trying to basically find the smoking purse.
Speaker 1 35:44
whatever. Brazilian law allows police to accuse a person of a crime. The prosecutor, however, is responsible for formally filing that charge. Police had 10 days to compile and present evidence to the prosecutor.
Speaker 3 35:59
10 days. Yeah, that’s it. Yep. Or what? They got a letter.
Speaker 1 36:02
Well, they just had to at time is of the essence. They had to move along if they were going to make the case. Gotcha. Soccer, it’s just running clock. So the initial autopsy report stated that Dottie could have died in an unexplained accident, been murdered or committed suicide.
Speaker 1 36:25
Very conclusive. Yeah.
Speaker 2 36:29
What I didn’t mention is ghosts could have come and invaded his body and stolen his soul. I mean, it was like, yeah, murdered, suicide, like it was insane. Like it’s a totally inconclusive report.
Speaker 1 36:40
The report indicated that Gotti’s cause of death was asphyxiation after his body was suspended and hanged. Wait, what?
Speaker 3 36:48
Yeah. Hanged. Suspended and hanged. Right.
Speaker 2 36:53
So the new theory from the Brazilian authorities is that he hanged himself with that purse strap. That there was like a staircase that had like a beam right above it that he got on a stool or chair, wrapped this thing around the beam and hung himself.
Speaker 3 37:11
Okay, and then it broke and then he was on the ground. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 37:15
Okay, so Amanda would be detained for approximately three weeks and then released because Brazilian authorities then concluded that daddy died by hanging himself from a staircase column using the handbag strap
Speaker 2 37:29
And she comes out of the jail, this goes back to that thing, looking very, very good. Like very good, like she’s a very pretty lady, but she basically comes out of jail like these like nice jeans, like this cool shirt, big like Jackie O sunglasses, smiling, and like
Speaker 3 37:50
So it’s not like I’ve been vindicated phew. It’s more like I
Speaker 2 37:53
I read it as like, she’s been in jail for three weeks, she’s happy to be out of jail, right? Right. So there’s two ways you could read how she looked coming out of jail, which is like, thank God I’m out of jail, now I can go about the business of dealing with my husband who’s died and I got my son to take care of.
Speaker 2 38:10
But lots of people read it as that sort of, she’s not behaving the way she’s supposed to. That classic thing, we hear a lot, especially with women in these situations. I don’t know, I don’t know what she was thinking, but she didn’t look particularly moral.
Speaker 1 38:26
She didn’t look bereft and, oh my God, my husband is gone and I’m left with the child and how am I going to be? You know, it was, she wasn’t giving that.
Speaker 2 38:35
Right. It also was helpful for her to be out of jail for her because of the estate situation.
Speaker 3 38:43
She taped up the prenup.
Speaker 2 38:44
Well, the thing is, there is the prenup that still exists, but this other thing comes out, which is that a week before they go on this like mend the fences trip to Europe and Brazil, he had gone to their attorney with her and amended the will and made it so that the entire state would be left to her and his son with her, right?
Speaker 2 39:09
And so the family immediately is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, timeout, wait. So they changed the will. It was initially to his mother. The old will, right? There was a 2007 will that was his mom and the daughter.
Speaker 2 39:24
And so the family was like, his family was like, wait a minute, what about our mother? Why did our family get cut out of the will? This is not right. It’s like there’s a daughter. There’s a daughter.
Speaker 2 39:37
And so the state judge in Montreal, probate judge was like, well, let’s see that will and we’ll have a look at it. Nobody can procure a copy of that will that has a signature, anyone signature on it.
Speaker 2 39:51
There’s just like drafts of it, but he’s like, so nobody has assigned, like this isn’t, it’s not really a will if people haven’t signed it. So they can’t find a signed copy of this thing for this judge to even consider.
Speaker 2 40:03
Okay. So as far as she’s concerned, she’s like the current will, the one that we signed a week before coincidental or not, whatever it’s all mine. So that was
Speaker 3 40:19
You know, but that had his signature wasn’t like some forgery or
Speaker 2 40:23
It was 100% his signature, yeah, 100%. Now, there are plenty of people, Kim, did you come across this where lots of people were like, that guy would have no idea what he’s reading in a will, that he, at that point, his brain was so screwed up from all the fighting that he wasn’t particularly educated about legal matters to begin with, that he wouldn’t know even what the will said.
Speaker 2 40:46
And in fact, there was another agreement that people were like, wait, what? Oh, yeah. The other one said the cheating deal?
Speaker 1 40:51
Yeah, if he was unfaithful, he would have to pay her a million dollars.
Speaker 2 40:57
dollars right oh so anyways there’s like all these weird like there’s these questions about did he even know what he was signing when he signed that did he know it you know but he was not he was sound mind and body as they say yeah and adult so it is what it is but he’s a boxer but he’s a boxer I mean she’d suffered you know and he was on painkillers and so right you know I’m
Speaker 3 41:19
a million dollars if he cheats per woman. Ooh, I don’t know. Just like a fine, like a boxing fine.
Speaker 1 41:26
Yes. Hell of a fine. Yeah. Great motivator. I guess not to.
Speaker 3 41:30
Oh, that’ll make you like way, you know, she’s hot, but you got to negotiate.
Speaker 4 41:40
Yeah.
Speaker 3 41:42
Okay. So, all right.
Speaker 2 41:44
So she’s out of jail. Right. Her family is.
Speaker 3 41:46
and she gets all the money.
Speaker 1 41:47
Well, first of all, she agreed with the finding and the autopsy report, the initial autopsy report anyway. And she had, quote, said, we had an argument in the street, then he pushed me and I hurt myself.
Speaker 1 42:01
I believe that when we got home and he saw that he hurt me, he thought I would leave him, that I would tell him to just let me go, that I would separate from him. He did that. And I’m presuming it’s kill himself.
Speaker 1 42:17
He did that in a moment of weakness. He was drunk. Maybe he didn’t know what he was doing. Maybe he thought I would leave him the next day.
Speaker 3 42:27
He’s also just had the shit beat out of him by a mob, an angry mob. Right. What was the knife? You think the knife was like, maybe he was going to do it a different way and then said whatever.
Speaker 2 42:37
It’s never really, I don’t know. Yeah.
Speaker 3 42:40
So the first wrap, did that come from one of her purses? It did.
Speaker 1 42:43
Okay. Yeah. I mean, all of this is really murky. There’s, again, nothing really clear.
Speaker 2 42:48
They did take the purse strap and they tested it because one of the investigators initially was like, this purse strap seems a little flimsy to hold a guy up. I don’t think they used that exact strap.
Speaker 2 43:01
They used one similar and tested it. And every time around 80 pounds, it would snap. And so they were like, huh, that’s interesting because he weighed like 160. So the strap in question doesn’t seem like it would have actually held him up to hang him long enough to strangle him.
Speaker 2 43:19
So that was an issue.
Speaker 1 43:21
And his family were not pleased with Amanda’s release, was not satisfied that his death was ruled a suicide, was just emphatic that that is unequivocally false. He was murdered. His family was very steadfast.
Speaker 1 43:39
Even his manager, Pat Lynch, yeah, was just, and they had even went on to hire a private investigator to further explore the matter. Okay.
Speaker 2 43:49
Yeah, because his managers, the Lynch brothers, agreed with Arturo’s family. They were like, there’s no way he would have killed himself. He was never spoken of anything like that. He didn’t have a history of anything related to that.
Speaker 2 44:01
And so the Lynch’s, the manager Lynch’s, along with the family, hired Paul Ciolino and Joe Mora, two private investigators, to go to Brazil to investigate.
Speaker 3 44:11
I mean look the guys whole career was about not giving up and fighting through every
Speaker 1 44:18
And that’s what his family that was what they cited every time the notion warrior does not commit suicide
Speaker 2 44:25
Yeah. And you know, his family had gone to her and said, look, we don’t agree with this new will. We don’t believe you. We’re going to do everything we can to connect you to his death. And so why don’t we just make this easy and just let’s split the estate 50 50.
Speaker 2 44:41
At that point, there was I think four or five million in the estate. And she said, absolutely not. Oh, dummy. No, absolutely not. Why didn’t you just do that? So a civil suit permits. Yeah, a probate suit, which goes on for years.
Speaker 2 44:54
Right. Right. And it’s very expensive for everybody. But these investigators can mention they go to, you know, the family hires them and they go to Brazil to look into this and see what they can figure out.
Speaker 3 45:05
So what do they find? Well, we’ll find out right after this quick break.
Speaker 1 45:10
And we’re back. And what was that you we were
Speaker 2 45:15
So we’re at the point where she was suspected, Amanda was suspected of murdering her husband Arturo. She went to jail for three weeks. She was released after the Brazilian coroner decides that he actually hanged himself.
Speaker 2 45:28
Family’s pissed. His family’s pissed. They believe that they’re entitled to his estate, but the will was changed just moments before he died. And she has refused to give his family anything from the estate.
Speaker 2 45:41
And so they’ve decided to take her to probate court and that what they need to do in order to win in court is they have to connect her to Arturo’s death. And so they’ve hired these two investigators to go to Brazil.
Speaker 1 45:57
And he has another autopsy as well.
Speaker 2 45:59
He does have, yes, his family asks for Canadian autopsy to be conducted, which it is in 2009. And so all of these things are going on, where the family’s doing everything they can to connect her to his death, because if they can prove that she was responsible for his death, then that’s gonna help them a lot with the millions of dollars they think is due to them from his estate.
Speaker 3 46:21
But when you say responsible, do you mean like killed him?
Speaker 2 46:24
or killed him, hired someone to kill him. Right. That she is directly connected. Was culpable. Yeah.
Speaker 1 46:30
That’s not, yeah, that she…
Speaker 2 46:32
Not that she even emotional left the bicycle that someone threw at him like that’s not gonna count. That’s
Speaker 3 46:38
Here, use this knife Arturo.
Speaker 2 46:42
So, yeah, so these guys go to Brazil. What do they find? These two investigators, Paul and Joe. Paul and Joe, two PIs. Oh, let me just, before Kim gets into their investigation, I do wanna mention that at this point, so very quickly, because this guy is so, as you said, he’s so famous for being a warrior and a never back down kind of guy, that there’s kind of two factions of people that have lined up,
Speaker 2 47:08
right? Some have lined up behind the idea that there’s no way he killed himself. She did it, right? This includes not just the family, but a lot of his friends, like Marizo and Manera. The boxing community.
Speaker 2 47:20
A lot of the boxing community. Right.
Speaker 1 47:22
And a lot of them would testify in the civil court against her.
Speaker 2 47:26
against her.
Speaker 3 47:27
And then the other side is.
Speaker 2 47:28
On the other side, there’s a bunch of people lining up, and some of those are interesting. One guy is this guy, Tom Cassino. Is that his name? Yes. Remember that guy? Tom Cassino? Tom Cassino. Okay. Who is a famous boxing photographer who’s known Arturo since Arturo was like 17 or 18, like when he was a kid, right, when he was just starting.
Speaker 1 47:47
followed his career.
Speaker 2 47:48
Yeah, and Tom Cassino says she was a loving wife who yes, they had their moments, but in his mind There’s no way she did it and he also saw that Arturo was was a troubled guy Who’d been through stuff with drugs and alcohol so he’s like it’s not out of the question
Speaker 3 48:05
problems with the law. I mean, he also your career is over like the thing that you love doing more than anything is done. Yeah. And now look where you are. Yeah. You know, certainly a trauma. And he’s an emotional guy.
Speaker 3 48:19
He’s you know, he’s not the smartest seeming guys. He’s had his head fucking smashed in multiple times. So you could you could think that there’s definitely behavioral or emotional issues at play. Yeah, I can buy I could I could literally buy either.
Speaker 3 48:39
Yeah. Which which what makes it such an interesting location.
Speaker 2 48:42
Yeah, so Arturo’s friend, this guy, Mario Acosta, who’s also a boxing mentor to him, he’s also known Arturo since he was a teenager, and he’s actually mentored him and been around him his whole life.
Speaker 2 48:54
He said, and here’s a guy you think would line up with the boxing community, he came right out and said, look, he has had debilitating head injuries. He has been through head trauma. He said this guy has struggled, that Arturo, he’s known him so well that he’s seen him struggle with depression.
Speaker 2 49:15
Every time he loses a fight, the guy gets depressed. And he reveals that Arturo had been hospitalized in 2005 after an overdose on painkillers that was chalked up in the community as like, oh, it’s just an accidental overdose.
Speaker 2 49:33
But both Mario and some other people close to him were like, they think it was actually a suicide attempt. And then more recently, Acosta says Arturo had shown up at this bar in New Jersey to hang out with Acosta and had asked for his gun.
Speaker 2 49:48
And Acosta was like, Mario Acosta was like, why do you want my gun? And he says, because I want to do this. And he puts his finger in his mouth, in his own mouth, the shooting. I didn’t think he’d put his finger in Mario’s mouth.
Speaker 3 49:59
All right. Thank you.
Speaker 2 50:01
Depends on the bar.
Speaker 3 50:05
Sir, that’s not allowed. It’s a squeeze box.
Speaker 2 50:10
The Squeeze box, this is an Apple base for Squeeze box. All right, all right. This is the blow waster. So you’re saying that there is- So there’s a history, so Mario Costa is being honest. He’s like, look, I’ve known the guy for, he’s multiple times where he’s brought up, like, very directly this idea of suicide.
Speaker 2 50:27
Right. What did the mule say? The mule was like, fuck that guy. Yeah, exactly. Anyways, so that’s, so there’s a point being that, can people are just lining up on both sides? More people are lining up against her, but they’re surprising, and from some surprising places, people are lining up saying, behind her and saying, no, he did kill himself.
Speaker 3 50:49
Yeah, right. You don’t even have to be for her to be like, you know, this guy is troubled, right?
Speaker 2 50:56
Yeah, but it’s perceived as for her because the other side is saying she murdered him. Well, no, I’m not saying that this murder was suicide.
Speaker 3 51:03
Right. Or there was no way, I guess you’re saying there was asphyxiation, there was no way it happened from the beating, none of that. It could have. Right. We don’t know. Yeah.
Speaker 1 51:13
So, the second autopsy, the findings were confirmed that it was asphyxiation as the cause of death. Okay.
Speaker 3 51:23
strong enough to strangle him? Well, that’s
Speaker 1 51:28
The argument was that he was drunk, he was pliable, maybe.
Speaker 2 51:33
The Canadian autopsy also found muscle relaxant in his blood, which can interact with alcohol and make you very out of it or crazy, so.
Speaker 3 51:43
never marry someone strong enough to kill you in your sleep.
Speaker 1 51:49
Well, the bottom line is that the second autopsy, unfortunately, remained inconclusive. And, you know, that was the thing, too. The muscle relaxant found in his system, you know, could also, and it did raise questions about his mental state when he died.
Speaker 3 52:07
Why was he was he taking that or was that like?
Speaker 1 52:11
I mean, they we don’t know for sure. Right? Okay, right. It was just that it was in his system. Mm -hmm You know, she certainly didn’t say she No, or had anything to do
Speaker 2 52:23
Yeah, where you’re going with this is this is a theory that quite a few people bring up, which is they think that she gave him some kind of drugs, waited for him to pass out enough, where she could then basically hit him over the head with something to knock him out, and then while he was incapacitated, strangle him, and then put him in a position where it looks like he had hung himself.
Speaker 3 52:47
I could go one step further and even say she could cause him to go crazy in public and have him attack her so that there’s a whole, you know, like, who knows if that was like planned, you know?
Speaker 1 53:02
That’s very diabolical
Speaker 2 53:04
I know. And very in keeping with the investigators who went to Brazil, who these guys, I keep forgetting their names. Joe and Paul. Joe and Paul. How do you keep forgetting Joe and Paul? Joe and Paul.
Speaker 2 53:15
Sorry. I just… I don’t know. They went there on a mission to show that she murdered him. Like, they were hired by the family and the managers. And they… Did you see a camera where they said they tested the dummy, like…
Speaker 2 53:32
Yes. It was like a thousand times. Yes. Like, they hung a dummy.
Speaker 3 53:37
Yes. With the straps. With the straps. Yeah, to see if…
Speaker 2 53:40
if it would land in the spot where the crime scene photos showed that the body landed and it never did. They even hired this like body motion expert, I guess. Yeah, they had all sorts of experts come in and he was like, no, but then come to find out like even the Brazilian police were like, well, actually we, we did a bad job and we moved shit around.
Speaker 2 54:00
Right. They’re like, before we took the photos, we moved things.
Speaker 1 54:05
Oopsie. They move things around. They move things around. They move things around.
Speaker 2 54:08
the first the first yeah right exactly so the first cop on the scene looked at the photos and was like yeah that stool is not at all where it was when we got
Speaker 3 54:23
Oh, I mean, I hate to bring it up like those auto erotica guys like they’re using like shoelaces and shit But like you wedge yourself in the right way or whatever like you can you know, uh, I don’t know by experience
Speaker 2 54:39
I’m just like, we’re all staring at you and you’re like, tell us more Adam.
Speaker 3 54:42
say it like, you know, if, yeah, if you’re leaning against the thing or whatever, like, yeah, the strap could do the job and then, and then break later when you’re like lifeless and you collapse, but like, doesn’t take that much to choke yourself out, especially if you’re, yeah, uh, trying to do it.
Speaker 3 54:59
Right. That is so anyway. Okay. So they run these tests. They’re in these tests. The tests.
Speaker 2 55:06
don’t show that he could have landed where the photos show, but the photos are not good photos, right? They’re the poor crime scene, right? Chilino, the guy, one of these investigators, is like, I would come back from the grave to prove that she did this.
Speaker 2 55:20
He is convinced he, he ignores, like even the blood pooled on the ground, they’re like, he must have been hit on the head in the apartment, kind of ignoring entirely the fight that happened outside. Which is corroborated, even the blood, as Kim said, like the cab driver saw the blood.
Speaker 2 55:39
Right, on the headrest.
Speaker 1 55:40
of the cab. Right, right. He had blood cells.
Speaker 3 55:43
been beaten in the head, so you can’t really pin that on her.
Speaker 2 55:46
These guys though, the investigators, was it a 307 page report or something? It was pretty crazy. It was really extensive. Showing that she did it.
Speaker 3 55:56
She paid the mob of people to beat him and then he was very precise to hit the exact mark. Okay. All right. So all right. So they they’re on a mission to prove that she did it and are they succeeding?
Speaker 1 56:08
Well, again, the second autopsy could not conclusively say that she was responsible in any way.
Speaker 2 56:16
The corner said that the way the blood was in the body, oh, the lividity, that weren’t again. Lividity, yeah. Yeah, that the blood pools in the body in a certain way when it’s left. Right, leaves a purplish.
Speaker 3 56:32
Right. You I said you got to move the body around a little bit.
Speaker 2 56:36
Yeah, and so that when you see the lividity, that’s usually a sign of hanging, if the bad, and it had that. So these guys, yeah, the investigators, the family loves what the investigators are saying because they obviously want her connect to the murder.
Speaker 1 56:51
But the evidence is proving otherwise. I mean, even the lawyer that had changed the final will had testified and he didn’t seem to think that there was anything suspicious going on. He thought it was odd, the one million, you know, fined for infidelity, but he didn’t think it was that unusual or that there was anything indicative of something going on that would point to Amanda’s guilt.
Speaker 2 57:22
And so based on the coroner’s report, which was released, the Canadian coroner’s report, uh, towards the end of 2011, a month later.
Speaker 1 57:33
In December, in December, what happened, Kim? What happened in December 2011? I’m going to tell you. So in December 2011, the judge ruled in Amanda’s favor, finding the contested will to be valid and that God assigned it willingly.
Speaker 1 57:53
And the estate was passed entirely to Rodriguez. So she would say that she would only, that she would clear only 2 million when the probate process was over, but she was awarded 100%.
Speaker 3 58:10
Yeah, you guys do not seem happy about that. What do you want me to do a jig?
Speaker 1 58:14
I don’t know.
Speaker 2 58:15
Uh, kinda. Well, it’s interesting.
Speaker 3 58:20
It’s like if this guy’s a wife beater and an alcoholic and he’s doing these bad things, pushing her around and then kills himself, you’d think that you would be like, all right.
Speaker 1 58:35
I mean, look, you know, the interesting thing that came up when I was looking into it was the suggestion of, I mean, he, his autopsies did not explore this, but there was theories later about CTE, which is chronic, traumatic encephalopathy.
Speaker 1 58:55
Oh, concussion stuff. That’s what the football player
Speaker 3 58:57
players and the hockey players.
Speaker 1 58:58
Right. It’s a progressive neurodegenerative disease linked to repeated head injuries. Right.
Speaker 2 59:05
which this guy had.
Speaker 1 59:06
There’s no there’s there’s no doubt in my mind that.
Speaker 3 59:11
If CTE was a person, it would be Arturo Gotti. I can’t disagree with that. All he did was get his head fast and even when he won a lot of times. So yeah, so that’ll cause all kinds of emotional and behavioral things.
Speaker 1 59:25
Yes. And, you know, he exhibited many, if not all the symptoms, you know, confusion, behavior problems, mood swings, aggression. Marrying the wrong person. Well, that does not help. But yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 59:43
Right.
Speaker 3 59:43
Okay, so is that where it tapped out? Well,
Speaker 1 59:46
She was released from jail. She got.
Speaker 3 59:47
Got the money. She has the kid. How is the kid now? This is what? The kid would be, um…
Speaker 2 59:53
Probably 15 or 16 now.
Speaker 1 59:57
Yeah. And the daughter. The daughters around the same age.
Speaker 2 01:00:00
Yeah, a little older. A little older. And the mother of Arturo’s daughter actually brought a wrongful death suit against Amanda, which was dismissed immediately. And Amanda has sued for defamation against every newspaper that says she was working as an exotic dancer at the squeeze box.
Speaker 2 01:00:20
I couldn’t figure out how those were resolved, but I imagine probably not in her favor. Right. But it’s a weird one, man. I don’t know. I know what you’re saying. I want to be happier about all the outcome.
Speaker 3 01:00:33
I mean, as a boxing fan and a fan of his and the way he fought, I feel bad, but in a way, you almost like knew there was going to be a tragic ending to this guy once he’s done in the ring, because this guy is not what you would expect to be living a life outside of boxing.
Speaker 3 01:00:54
Once you take the boxing away, it feels like he’s going to struggle and didn’t obviously don’t expect this kind of tragic ending.
Speaker 2 01:01:02
I mean, even his own brother at one point, his older brother broke with the family and said he was struggling. He was struggling with depression. I think the part of it that left me a little less than like, yay, well, there’s no, you know, but what like you’re not gay, but just happier about the outcome is he was really, really close to his family, like his, his mom and his dad and they’ve been very close and his brothers.
Speaker 2 01:01:29
And within 18 months of meeting this woman that they’d never heard of, he’s not only married, there’s a kid, the whole will has been changed. And not, not that like your parents or your brothers or whatever, like entitled to nobody’s entitled to anything from your estate.
Speaker 2 01:01:45
It’s up to you what you want to do, but it just felt, I could feel for them that like this was not like it was a double. It was like, not only is your son and brother gone, but like she gets everything and not, I didn’t get the sense from the, from the God is that it was like even a money thing as much as it was like a legacy and relationship thing.
Speaker 2 01:02:09
Like they just felt like something was.
Speaker 3 01:02:13
It should be, his daughter should be getting some of it. I’ll tell you, that’s when you know. Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:02:19
Like they had no idea that there was a new will like in their mind There was this other will that like gave some to his daughter and some to to his mom. I will say that
Speaker 3 01:02:27
That’s kind of, that is stripper shrewdness right there. Cause that is the kind of shrewd move that a stripper would do. Like an Adam Nicole Smith. Can we get our attorney on the phone, please? That’s like the Adam Nicole Smith with the old guy.
Speaker 3 01:02:38
Like these strippers know they’re gonna squeeze every cent. Squeeze box.
Speaker 2 01:02:43
Yeah, exactly. Squeeze box, take that as you will. We’re not saying that she did that. I just want to say we’re just alleging what we’ve, allegedly what we’ve read. We’re just talking. We’re not saying she did any of that.
Speaker 2 01:02:56
Yes, she’s my need attorneys.
Speaker 1 01:02:59
When she was in jail, she had written this, like, very long letter, which, you know what, I might post it to this, like, haters group.
Speaker 2 01:03:09
I didn’t even read that letter. I’m going to, I got to join the slaker.
Speaker 1 01:03:13
if you haven’t.
Speaker 2 01:03:14
Get on board. I’m going to join the slake haters group and I’m going to leave a review of slake Haitian my loud to leave
Speaker 1 01:03:21
you. Come in and say hi. Why not? Just don’t use your real name.
Speaker 3 01:03:27
So wait, uh, should we do takeaway?
Speaker 1 01:03:32
Yeah, or did you want? No, no, that’s let’s let’s no, we arrived at the end of this. Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:03:37
That’s right.
Speaker 3 01:03:38
Oh, I was making stripper jokes. No, you’re right, because there’s just enough nagging other shit. Look, there’s nothing worse than an innocent person going to jail and suffering for something they didn’t do.
Speaker 3 01:03:56
And like they say, it’s better that a guilty person go free than an innocent person be incarcerated or even worse for something they didn’t do. But it feels like she didn’t do it. She didn’t help, but she didn’t do it.
Speaker 3 01:04:11
But then there’s this shady shit with the will and the whatever.
Speaker 2 01:04:13
Yeah, it’s the will. It’s the fact that the strap that supposedly hung him breaks.
Speaker 1 01:04:19
lot of
Speaker 2 01:04:20
There’s all these things, and you can make the case either way, it’s totally not definitive. you
Speaker 3 01:04:25
I’m just saying like the physics of like a body, you know, especially if somebody who’s got it in their head to do it, like you can angle yourself in a way and be propped against the wall. Who knows?
Speaker 3 01:04:37
You know, you know, and the fact that they move the room around. I will give them credit. At least they actually did an honest investigation for the most part. I mean, yes, they bungled a bad investigation.
Speaker 3 01:04:48
But it wasn’t like the typical resort town trying to bury it and.
Speaker 2 01:04:52
No, they did try to do a legit investigation.
Speaker 3 01:04:55
And the knife never turned into anything. There was no blood on the knife or anything.
Speaker 2 01:04:59
That’s the thing. So they’d never, the Brazilian authorities did not do a blood or alcohol test on him, which is a huge, you know, failure. Fopa. Fopa, that’s the right, is that a Brazilian word? Cause I- No, I don’t know.
Speaker 2 01:05:12
A fopa.
Speaker 1 01:05:13
is
Speaker 2 01:05:15
French. Yeah, it’s French. Fox pass. And they also did not dust anything for fingerprints. They didn’t dust that strap or the knife or anything. All right, take it back. Take it all back. So I would say they didn’t try and immediately say it was an accident like most resort towns, but we would be definitely stretching the term good investigation if we were to say they did it.
Speaker 2 01:05:38
They could not do a good investigation.
Speaker 3 01:05:40
Hey, we’re better at soccer than police work.
Speaker 1 01:05:43
Yeah. So guys, what is the takeaway? What is the takeaway? I think I’m going to start by saying, once again, ladies and gentlemen, you’re in a tumultuous relationship. Don’t go away with the person on vacation.
Speaker 1 01:05:57
Can’t be overstated. Not a good idea. Just don’t go on separate vacations. Go to the opposite corners of the earth away from each other for vacation. Thank you.
Speaker 3 01:06:12
Yeah, it’s a good piece of takeaway. Man, it’s tough. It’s tough. You know, you feel for, you know, these these athletes that are like one second, it’s nothing but glory and fame and adulation. And then you step out of the ring.
Speaker 3 01:06:27
And unless you’re like somehow peripherally working like you said, he went to Realty. Yeah. Like he’s not training other boxers. He’s not commentating. He’s not doing that. Although I do feel like he did get brought in every now and then to be like a guest commentator.
Speaker 3 01:06:41
But the point is he wasn’t really connected to boxing. And now he’s met this this woman. Yeah, I don’t think don’t get married so quickly. Don’t have kid immediately. There’s no rush. There’s no rush.
Speaker 3 01:06:54
And but yeah, if he’s if he’s a mess and look if, you know, he got his head beaten in. Unfortunately, you know, the CTE and all that stuff. Yeah, who knows what what what that plays. So yeah, like I said, you know, I followed his career.
Speaker 3 01:07:11
Not surprised it was a tragic ending.
Speaker 1 01:07:14
Right. Sort of a mishmash of inconclusiveness because we don’t really know what happened. What do you got, Jerry?
Speaker 2 01:07:25
I don’t really have to take away. All right, thanks. Yeah, I got nothing. Well, only because like- Come on, give us something. I’ll give you something else. Make it about yourself. So I think this one’s tough because the head trauma stuff, the CTE, that really- It’s real.
Speaker 2 01:07:41
It screws you up, it’s real, right? And so- It really, really is. So, and I don’t think most people are going to experience that in their lives because we’re not professional athletes. So that is a piece of this that I just, it’s just like a part of it that you can’t really untangle from it.
Speaker 2 01:07:56
So I don’t really have to take away other than, yeah, I agree, don’t get married so fast, don’t have kids so fast. And yeah, don’t box. Don’t box. Don’t box.
Speaker 1 01:08:08
with your head. The interesting thing, Jerry, butt on bump, butt on bump. I was going to say that interestingly enough, it was 2005 when pathologist Dr. Bennett Bamalu or Omalu actually published the first evidence of CTE in an American football player, former Pittsburgh Steeler Mike Webster, and this publication caught the attention of CLF co -founder Dr.
Speaker 1 01:08:45
Chris Nowinski, who envisioned the world’s first athlete’s brain bank.
Speaker 3 01:08:51
And they made a movie about him with Will Smith. I think it was called Concussion. Oh, wow. What a descriptive title. You could have a concussion and still be able to know what movie that is.
Speaker 2 01:09:01
What would the people who made that movie have called Schindler’s List?
Speaker 3 01:09:05
Got to go there. Got to go there. All right. Well, this was a sad one. Yeah, it’s not the way a legend is supposed to go out. Thank you.
Speaker 1 01:09:15
Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:09:16
Well, have we done one that’s not a sad one? That’s, we keep saying that at the end of these. Is there not? Yeah, we did. Which one? Cause this is why crime drives me like they’re all sad.
Speaker 3 01:09:25
We did one when the hunter lady got killed. Oh. I am not sad about that.
Speaker 2 01:09:30
Yeah, that’s right. I forgot about that. You want to kill a leopard? The Rudolphs.
Speaker 3 01:09:33
Yeah, I am fine with that. Yeah, I am fine with you getting shot the face
Speaker 2 01:09:36
Okay. So we gotta, we gotta fly in more death by animal that you’re hunting cases. Kim, are you okay? He’s holding a red over. Knocking yourself out. That’s literally what it looks like. Can I have some?
Speaker 2 01:09:51
Yes. All right.
Speaker 3 01:09:54
I think it’s time to bring this party to a close. Thank you so much for joining us. Again, if you love the show and you like us and you want the algorithm to like us, leave us a five -star review on either Apple or Spotify, but also join the Slake Haters Only group on Facebook.
Speaker 3 01:10:14
The one thing that’s great about podcasting, unlike, you know, Jerry and I, we’ve done TV, we’ve done movies, we’ve done all kinds of stuff, plays, like with podcasts, you really can interact with your fans.
Speaker 3 01:10:25
And if you join the group, you know, you can ask us questions. You could, yeah, we could, we can really interact with you, the listeners. So go for that and we’ll catch you on. We’re forward to seeing you there.
Speaker 3 01:10:37
Yeah, we’ll catch you on the next one. Bye. Bye.
