Speaker 1 00:00
That’s what happens. What happened? See, that’s the thing. If you tell Kim she does the opposite, because everybody loves that.
Speaker 2 00:06
So low down, girl.
Speaker 3 00:15
Thanks for watching!
Speaker 1 00:20
Pack your body bags. We’re going on a slaycation. These are murders and mysterious deaths that happen while you’re on vacation. I am your co -host Adam Tex Davis. And as always, I am joined by my lovely wife, Kim.
Speaker 1 00:36
Hey guys.
Speaker 4 00:38
How y ‘all doin’?
Speaker 2 00:39
We’re good. How’s your Cosmo?
Speaker 4 00:41
Delicious
Speaker 1 00:42
and my business partner and long -time friend, Jerry Culber. Hey, guys. And we are back with more slacating. Before we start, I was going to say, Kim and I were inspired by all the slaycationing we’ve been doing, and we kind of did something out of the ordinary last weekend.
Speaker 1 01:00
We went to see something, a concert. It’s a genre of music called Yacht Rock.
Speaker 2 01:06
Yes. We love you, Outrock.
Speaker 1 01:08
Yacht Rock so there’s like a genre I didn’t even know that and then there’s a band called the Yacht Rock Review and We went to see them in Atlantic City at the Hard Rock
Speaker 4 01:18
Shout out to our dear friends that we went with, Rod and Kel. Hey!
Speaker 1 01:21
And you know, it just felt like very vacation vibe I mean totally first of all Kim described as the whitest thing she’s ever done It really was more white than marrying you more white than marrying me Wow by far, huh?
Speaker 1 01:35
Not to bring race into it, but as a woman of color and you’re at a concert That’s 99% white people with silver hair wearing yacht like yacht captain hats and Hawaiian. I mean
Speaker 2 01:46
Because the other 1% of people were not people of color, they were just very tan. Just so you know.
Speaker 1 01:52
Yeah. We saw one other, besides the background singers, there was like one other black couple and they kind of gave Kim a look like, don’t tell anyone you saw this here. And, uh, but it was actually kind of great.
Speaker 4 02:04
Awesome. I was having a great time. I was jamming to all the song
Speaker 1 02:09
So yeah, Yacht Rock is like soft rock from the mid 70s, maybe into early 80s. Think Eagles. Yeah, Holland.
Speaker 2 02:18
notes, Kenny Loggins, Mr. Mcdonald would be…
Speaker 1 02:23
So yeah, I started thinking like what would be the pointer sisters. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 02:27
Okay, the point is, so there are some black artists here, yeah, like Pointer Sisters.
Speaker 3 02:31
It’s like an outlier though, it’s not like an outlier.
Speaker 1 02:34
Kim was very happy when they did a Pointer’s Sister song. Also, by the way, this is the Yacht Rock review, but there’s another, they have a competitor band called Yachtly Crew. Yachtly Crew, amazing.
Speaker 1 02:44
Pretty amazing, Dave. Diddy Brothers, classic.
Speaker 2 02:47
as black artists like Bobby Caldwell. Right, yep.
Speaker 1 02:51
not black. Right. Right. Steely Dan. Steely Dan.
Speaker 2 02:55
Definitely. Jimmy Buffet, I’d say, is Yacht Rockish. Yeah, they did a Yacht Rockish.
Speaker 1 02:59
They did a Jimmy Buffett cover. So I was thinking like, you know, summer coming up, you know, what would be the yacht rock, sleek Haitian soundtrack? You know, what songs would go well mixing, uh, vacation meets murder.
Speaker 1 03:10
So I started listing my top five. Of course you did. Of course. So, uh, baby come back. My player.
Speaker 3 03:18
Baby, come back. I don’t wanna do it.
Speaker 1 03:21
That would go well during our kayak episode number two.
Speaker 2 03:25
Okay. Uh, oh yeah. That’s the, uh, yep. Bannerman Island.
Speaker 1 03:28
Rich girl by Hollin. Oh rich girl. Yep Okay, the motivation of a lot of our sleep yes, right there any songs about insurance Well, there’s dirty dirty work by stealing dad feels like which one is dirty work
Speaker 3 03:46
I don’t want to do you no more. Yep. Oh boy.
Speaker 2 03:49
Yeah. Rock songs. What a fool believe. I can’t see that. That’s in a register. I can’t go. Can you do that one, Kim? No.
Speaker 3 03:57
What a fool, buddy
Speaker 1 04:02
Uh, which is it kind of.
Speaker 2 04:04
Josh really wants to burn his headphones right now.
Speaker 1 04:07
This is, yeah, this is the people thinking they’re going to get away with it on this location. And then I was thinking the number one Yacht Rock location song has to be Ride Like the Wind.
Speaker 2 04:17
Oh, Mr. Christopher Cross. Who’s also like… Go ride like the wind to be free again. Which also did sailing, which is… Yes, also… Might be the ultimate. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 04:27
But I was thinking like the ride like the wind, it’s got to be in reverse because in the song they’re trying to get to Mexico.
Speaker 2 04:33
So, can we just talk about that song for a second? This came up recently. Brian and I were talking about, was playing and Brian was like, this is the most, because I love Christopher Cross and he really likes him also.
Speaker 2 04:46
But Brian was like, this is the most specific song lyrics. Like, was this written for a movie? And I kept meaning to look it up because the lyrics to the song are so, here, I’m just gonna pull these up.
Speaker 2 04:55
He’s like, it’s the night my body’s weak. I’m on the run, no time to sleep. I’ve got to ride, ride like the wind to be free again. And I’ve got such a long way to go.
Speaker 3 05:05
Such a long way to go.
Speaker 2 05:07
to make it to the border of Mexico, so I ride, ride like the wind, right? So he was born the son of a lawless man and he always spoke his mind with a gun in his hand. Like, what is this song about? It seems like…
Speaker 4 05:20
Like, what’s going on here?
Speaker 1 05:21
law bike rider, but like, I always think of it as bike riding, but he always think he’s like on a 10.
Speaker 2 05:26
He was accused and tried and told to hang. I was nowhere in sight when the church bells rang. These are like very specific. Like this feels like he’s narrating something.
Speaker 4 05:35
It does feel like there’s a story being told here.
Speaker 2 05:40
Yeah. Anybody know?
Speaker 1 05:41
you could reach out to us on Facebook at our Facebook group, Slakators Only, or you can, we just have a regular, if you just look up Slakation on Facebook, you can reach out to us. You could also email us, you can go to our website, slakation .wtf, and then hit contact us and you can email us.
Speaker 1 06:02
But anyway, that’s your Slakation Yacht Rock playlist for this summer. I love it.
Speaker 2 06:07
I love that. And I just want to go listen to my Yacht Rock compilation.
Speaker 1 06:10
Anyway, so we’re going to get into the case in a second, just so you know, for any, uh, dislocation novices, I don’t know the case, Kim and Jerry, they know the case, they’re going to tell it to me, and then I will ask questions, make jokes and interrupt them and make them angry.
Speaker 1 06:25
And that’s enough whimsy for now. Let’s get into the case, Kim. Where will we be slaking today?
Speaker 4 06:32
Well, today we are slacating in Benidorm, located in the Marina Baixi region in Alicante, a coastal town along the Mediterranean coast of Spain.
Speaker 1 06:48
Wow, that’s a long address. Well, that does not fit on an envelope, Pete.
Speaker 2 06:54
I mean, if she just said Spain, it’s not really specific enough.
Speaker 4 06:59
I’m trying to get this, like, patient vibe.
Speaker 1 07:02
wrong. I’m just saying that is a lot of things.
Speaker 4 07:05
Anyway, once known for olives and citrus groves, today boasts one of the more culturally diverse European cities. Benidorm has something for everyone. Sunshine, clear water beaches, theme parks, most notably Teramitica, I think that’s right, which translate in English as land of myth or mythical land, is an amusement park with rides and attractions based on ancient Mediterranean civilization.
Speaker 1 07:37
Wait, like rides based on ancient civilizations, like a roller coaster. Yeah.
Speaker 4 07:42
Maybe you want to take me.
Speaker 2 07:43
like Grease Lightning, the roller coaster, or like, I don’t know, let’s come up with some more of those.
Speaker 1 07:51
cards.
Speaker 2 07:52
But with a K and two T’s.
Speaker 1 07:53
Yeah, bumper chariots. OK.
Speaker 4 07:56
All right. So, nicknamed New York of the Mediterranean, Benidorm is also a hotbed for vibrant nighttime frolic and fun with a strip of bars, clubs, and discos.
Speaker 2 08:11
So it was a sleepy fishing village, as Kim said. It is on the Mediterranean coast of Spain. It’s like halfway on the coast of Spain across from Algiers. It was right across the Bellerix Sea. And it started as a real sleepy little fishing village, but from like the sixties and seventies, it seems like it’s just kind of turned into this.
Speaker 4 08:31
It’s a great tourist spot for particularly folks from the UK.
Speaker 2 08:36
And looking at it, I have to say, it looked pretty cool. I’d never heard of Benidorm, but looking at the pictures, I was like, this looks like a beautiful spot.
Speaker 1 08:43
Where is it on Spain? It’s like
Speaker 2 08:45
How it’s like middle if you’re on the the coast and the the sea and the Alaric Sea. Yeah
Speaker 4 08:50
It’s like 700 miles from Madrid, but like right on the coast of like right there
Speaker 1 08:56
Not the ocean, the sea, you’re saying. The sea.
Speaker 2 08:58
Okay. Yeah. It’s on the, it’s on the ballerics. Gotcha.
Speaker 1 09:01
It’s the New York.
Speaker 2 09:02
I don’t know why it’s…
Speaker 1 09:02
call that. What is it? The New York.
Speaker 4 09:04
It’s a hotbed of fun and frolic. Low. Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 09:07
studio Cinco Quattro.
Speaker 2 09:08
I wish New York looked like that and had a beach, because I was going to say, what’s New York?
Speaker 4 09:13
Can’t be beat. So we’re better to host celebratory shenanigans for a bachelorette party Where where I ask you guys any answers? Well, I’m telling you better correct Correct, or as it is known in the UK a hen party a hen party Have you ever I’ve never heard that expression before you say bachelor or bachelorette bachelorette?
Speaker 4 09:38
Okay women Yeah, hen party. Yeah, but I’d never heard that expression before As far as I knew there’s always a bachelorette party
Speaker 2 09:47
I haven’t heard it either until we were researching this. And I have to say, I don’t love it. Me neither.
Speaker 4 09:52
and so a little something about it like ends. Right, yeah.
Speaker 1 09:56
But it’s the Brits are saying this. Yeah, and they’re cheeky and they’re fun. They don’t get too offended
Speaker 2 10:02
No, the girls actually call it a head party. Yeah, that’s…
Speaker 4 10:04
what it’s called in the UK.
Speaker 2 10:07
But it’s what we would call a bachelorette person.
Speaker 1 10:09
Right, but we would get offended by Hen Party here. I’m not offended.
Speaker 2 10:13
People get offended by everything here in America. We’re like the land of the strong until you say something that doesn’t agree with your exact world view and then it’s offensive.
Speaker 1 10:22
Right. The ratings for this podcast will support that.
Speaker 2 10:26
Anyway. The reviews. Oh, and ratings. And the ratings. Right.
Speaker 4 10:33
So we are going to talk about Christi Maxwell. Christi Maxwell was among a group of 20 friends or hens to celebrate the upcoming nuptials of her friend and future bride, Caroline Burke.
Speaker 1 10:53
Oh, okay. So she, Christie Maxwell is not the bride.
Speaker 4 10:55
No, no. She’s there among other friends, which I think is awesome, like traveling or being together with 20 friends. That’s amazing.
Speaker 2 11:05
And they’re from Livingstone, Scotland. Yes, Livingstone. As Kim said earlier, this is like one of those, there are these spots around the world that like one country likes to go to, right? So, you know, this is a spot UK people love going to.
Speaker 2 11:19
Exactly.
Speaker 4 11:21
Exactly. Benadore. Benadore. So Christie was a newlywed herself, in fact, having married just seven months prior on September 5th, 2016 to Adam Maxwell. The pair met in school and known each other for 10 years by the time they were married.
Speaker 4 11:40
And it was widely reported that they were a happy couple, looking forward to their future and planning to purchase a home soon.
Speaker 2 11:48
Can I just say, they were adorable.
Speaker 4 11:51
They were so freaking adorable. They’re like the cutest couple. You gotta see. Look at this.
Speaker 2 11:56
Aww. And they’d known each other since they were 17.
Speaker 4 11:59
Just so stinking to me.
Speaker 2 12:02
Very love, very sweet together. You could just tell in all the pictures of them, like it’s just.
Speaker 1 12:06
They’re both very cute, they look small, like they’re small people.
Speaker 2 12:11
I don’t know. Can vouch for that. Don’t know why you’re saying that. That’s a little bit of a weird thing to say. All right. Because it’s out there, I’m showing you their picture. I’m just saying they look like-
Speaker 1 12:18
little cute people. All right, anyway. Oh my God.
Speaker 4 12:22
Moving right along so like they’re not leprechauns, dude. They’re just like people I didn’t say it really is really in fellas. So here’s the thing. They’re all friends. They’re all friends so Christy and her husband were friends with Carolyn her husband.
Speaker 4 12:40
So they were all They were all buddy, but the guys weren’t there. No, the guys were not there. This was uh, the guys I’m sure we’re gonna do their thing. Hmm. You’re sure I’m pretty sure and but this was About why would you say that?
Speaker 2 12:54
I didn’t do anything.
Speaker 4 12:56
So anyway, like Jerry said, you know, they, the pair had met in school, they’d known each other for a while, and they were living their best married life. And plans for the future, kids, family, whatever, the world was their oyster, Christy and Adam had their whole life ahead of them.
Speaker 4 13:14
And they were, they had big plans for the future. Anyway, so Christy Emma Curry Maxwell was born on September 1st, 1989. Christy was the oldest of three children, born to Brian and Denise Curry. They lived in Leith Edinburgh before moving to Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland, where Christy would grow up, attend school, and settle into her adult life.
Speaker 4 13:44
She was employed with Lloyd’s Banking Group, a financial service group focused on retail and commercial clientele. On Friday, April 28th, 2017, the friends embarked on their Hens Weekend journey from Livingston, Scotland to Alicante, Spain.
Speaker 4 14:06
The crew checked in and descended on a vacation property known as My Pretty Timer, or My Pretty Apartments in Benidorm, at about 9 .15pm. The Hens took up a total of six units on the eighth, ninth, and tenth floor in that resort property.
Speaker 4 14:28
Christy, along with a roommate, a friend, would occupy Apartment 9A. The women arrived, promptly ditched their luggage, and took off into the night and converged on the English Square, which I read to be the beating heart of the resorts.
Speaker 4 14:47
Where food and drink are plentiful and Lionel Richie’s song all night long was facts. Could be Yacht Rock.
Speaker 3 14:56
All night long, all night, all night, all night long, all night, all night, yeah, dance.
Speaker 4 15:06
in the street? Okay. So.
Speaker 1 15:09
We just got an email saying, don’t ever sing again from Lionel. Rich season, this is for copy.
Speaker 2 15:17
right. It’s just for singing.
Speaker 1 15:22
He’s a judge on American Idol. He’s like, no, don’t ever, don’t ever, uh, anyway, okay.
Speaker 4 15:30
so they’re they’re partying yeah they they got there they dropped their luggage off they are out in these streets just living their best life all right and they’re starting
Speaker 2 15:40
They’re starting at like 10, 11 o ‘clock at night. Oh yeah, because you got there late. Right, right.
Speaker 4 15:44
And, you know, they’re in their 20s, so your hands don’t give a fuck. Right. That’s true. Anyway, so CCTV footage captured Christy and her two friends returning at about 535 a .m. in the morning of April 29th.
Speaker 1 15:59
There was 20 women, you said. Yeah. And they all went out.
Speaker 4 16:02
or whatever, they split up or whatever. I’m gonna say they did. I’m gonna say they all went.
Speaker 2 16:07
This was a gang that had like matching pink t -shirts that said this the t -shirts all had us just identifying themselves The thing on the show like something like yeah, we’re here to get drunk like it was just like a cute party shirt Yeah, but they’re all like
Speaker 4 16:22
Like we are here for some hen shenanigans. Right. And it’s about to go down.
Speaker 1 16:27
shenanigans. What? You, you keep saying shenanigans. I don’t know why you love the word shenanigans so much. Anyway. All right. So close cops.
Speaker 4 16:37
the footage. 5 30 a .m. in the morning of April 29th waiting for the elevator. No doubt these ladies were ready to crash and sleep it off and commence to more celebratory shenanigans later. So for Schitt’s and Giggle’s friend and suite mate Michelle in bed ready to call it a night herself, amused by her friends snoring would actually capture some video of a sleeping Christie.
Speaker 4 17:07
The time was 10 to 7 in the morning and Michelle no doubt chuckled herself as she turned the light out put her phone away thinking of the laughs she would have and enjoy with her friend when she shows her the video later on that day.
Speaker 4 17:28
About an hour later at 7 .50 a .m. Christie would be deceased and her body lying by the side of the pool.
Speaker 1 17:39
Wait, one second, she’s in bed snoring. That is correct. The next, an hour later, she’s dead by the pool. That’s correct.
Speaker 2 17:47
Oh! She’s in bed snoring on the 9th floor? Is that right? Or 10th floor?
Speaker 4 17:51
She, yeah, on the ninth floor.
Speaker 2 17:53
floor.
Speaker 4 17:53
What is known is that Christi fell from the balcony. From a unit one floor above the 10th floor. On the 10th floor, yeah. On the 10th floor, facing the opposite side of where she was sleeping and snoring an hour ago.
Speaker 4 18:11
Must’ve been snoring pretty loud. It is known that in the apartment that she had fallen from 10 -8, you can’t help yourself, can you?
Speaker 2 18:24
How would snoring loud cause you to fall off a balcony?
Speaker 1 18:27
because your roommate says fucking stop.
Speaker 4 18:29
Well, he ought to know. Chuck her off the balcony. He ought to know. Because he’s…
Speaker 2 18:34
I snore. You know, he snores. So we’ve been on work trips where like, like through the door and then like through his door and my door, I can hear it.
Speaker 1 18:43
I’m saying this because I’ve been beaten in my sleep for snoring. I woke, I used to wake up in college and there’d be, the whole bed was filled with shoes and sneakers. And I realized it was my roommate chucking them at me all night long to try to wake me up to stop me from snoring.
Speaker 1 18:58
So if he could have lifted me up and threw me out a window, I might’ve been next to the pool as well. Well, that’s,
Speaker 4 19:06
That’s not the case here. Okay. What happened? And this is the thing. We know that she… This sucks, by the way. I’m… Yes. It does. It’s horrible. It does. It’s horrible. And the thing is, is that there’s a lot that we don’t know.
Speaker 4 19:22
Right. But we do know that she had fallen from a balcony at apartment 10E, that she was in that apartment, and that there were five men in that apartment. Five men from Nottingham, England, ranging in ages from their late 20s to early 30s.
Speaker 4 19:44
Five men in the same… In that unit. They were there also on a guy’s getaway celebrating a birthday.
Speaker 1 19:52
Right, but everybody has their own separate bedroom.
Speaker 4 19:56
No, no, no, I think it’s like a couple of guys sharing a room like sharing the five.
Speaker 2 20:04
guys were in had like I think it had two bedrooms like two dudes were in one room two dudes were in another room.
Speaker 1 20:10
But to be do everybody has access to the other rooms. Yeah.
Speaker 4 20:14
I mean, it’s an apartment.
Speaker 2 20:17
No, no, no, no. No, but he means you mean like, can she want can they wander into her room? Yeah. No. No. Okay. That’s like a hotel. You have it more. Okay. When you go in the room, there’s like separate.
Speaker 2 20:29
I got it. I got it. So for some of them.
Speaker 1 20:31
complex and there’s different rooms and the rooms all have doors with keys and the woman though who took the video of her snoring is the same room they were in the same room they were sharing a room together sharing a room and obviously she’d be the first one you talk to you would you think oh
Speaker 4 20:49
You would think. So whatever. OK.
Speaker 2 20:51
we’re in a resort town. Yes, so. Resort towns. Don’t want trouble. Which I, by the way, just a sidebar, I’d never thought of that until we started doing this show. It never occurred to me that like resort towns will default typically to.
Speaker 2 21:12
Protecting their image. Protecting the image of the town in criminal issues rather than fully investigating them. I didn’t really think about that, but it kind of makes a cynical and sad kind of sense.
Speaker 2 21:24
And unfortunately so many of the cases we deal with on this show are like cases that would have received a much more thorough and meaningful investigation if they didn’t happen in resort towns.
Speaker 4 21:38
Correct. The thing is, is that nobody really knows what happened between that hour that Christy came back with her friends, got into bed and went to sleep, and then was found next to the pool.
Speaker 1 21:56
Could she have been, I mean, there’s a balcony. So everything is speculative. Right.
Speaker 4 22:01
But there’s a balcony? There’s a balcony, but that’s the thing too. So it’s somehow there was contact made with a man or the men in that room.
Speaker 2 22:14
This other room like she the balcony where she’s laying by the pool dead. Yeah is not oh, it’s there. I’m her room
Speaker 1 22:22
Not her room. It’s from another room. Interesting. Yeah. Was she pretty messed up when she got home? Yes. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2 22:30
Yeah, they had really been partying with the drinking.
Speaker 4 22:35
She had a blood alcohol concentration level of five times over the limit. Oh wow, okay.
Speaker 1 22:42
So, yeah.
Speaker 2 22:43
By the way, I just want to mention here and the blood alcohol concentration thing was interesting because it was expressed in a way that I’d never seen because they, you know, they did check her blood, of course, and they said it was five and a half times the limit in Spain that I thought, is the limit different in other places, right?
Speaker 2 23:04
It’s an interesting…
Speaker 4 23:06
That’s an interesting. And the limit to what? Drive? Or the…
Speaker 2 23:08
To drive. Yeah, yeah. So blood alcohol, whenever you talk about blood alcohol content, you’re always talking about as it relates to drinking and driving. So her blood alcohol level was 2 .79 grams per liter, which is five and a half times higher than the drinking and driving limit in Spain.
Speaker 2 23:25
In Spain, the limit is, if you’re above 0 .05%, which means that 0 .05% of your blood is alcohol. That is the limit above which you’re considered driving while intoxicated. In America, our blood alcohol level is 0 .08%.
Speaker 2 23:46
So here, I mean, here she would have been three times over the legal limit. So it’s an interesting, it’s just funny, it’s like an interesting, because I was struck by like.
Speaker 1 23:54
with the money, like the exchange rate.
Speaker 2 23:57
You’re five and a half times more drunk than drinking and driving in Spain, but three times over the limit for the US. Either way, definitely should be drinking and driving. But she wasn’t driving. But she wasn’t.
Speaker 2 24:07
So then I was like, okay, what does that actually mean? And so then I dug into a little, and it means one of her friends had said that she had like 10 drinks over the course of the night. So from probably like 10 .30, 11 PM until around 5 .45 AM.
Speaker 2 24:23
So over six hours, she’d had 10 drinks. Right. So that is a lot for your liver to process. Like typically you’d say.
Speaker 1 24:30
Well, I said she was little. I saw in the picture, she looked little. So petite.
Speaker 2 24:34
So, you know, typically they say your body can sort of process like one drink every hour to hour and a half, depending on your body weight. So having that many drinks over that amount of time, you are in a situation where it’s going to take a while for your body to like come back to your brain.
Speaker 4 24:53
for your body to process.
Speaker 2 24:55
And then she’s also, you know, the other thing I was thinking about is they checked in, they’d gotten up that day, they were super excited, they all said goodbye to their husbands and boyfriends, traveled together from Scotland, checked into a hotel at 9 .45 at night, dropped their shit off, put on their fun shirts, and went out to have fun.
Speaker 4 25:13
So there wasn’t a proper meal likely probably wasn’t it was just like yeah
Speaker 2 25:17
That’s what I was saying. They probably didn’t eat a lot. They also weren’t familiar with either the town or the hotel, right? Because they just landed and went at it. So, you know, they’re in an unfamiliar place, a hotel they’re not familiar with.
Speaker 2 25:31
So when she woke up, and for whatever reason, after going to sleep, she was more than likely still somewhat intoxicated.
Speaker 3 25:42
in their room.
Speaker 1 25:43
Yeah. Okay. So she didn’t have to leave the room to go to a bathroom room.
Speaker 2 25:47
No. And there’s theories, you know, there’s like a theory that she maybe needed something. Someone had a theory that she, because she wore contact lenses, so she may have needed drops for her contact lenses that she forgot and was going to a friend’s room to ask.
Speaker 4 26:01
locked herself out. Locked herself out. And became confused.
Speaker 1 26:05
I am also confused and maybe we will figure that out right after this quick break.
Speaker 5 26:12
the Hargan women seem to have it all from the outside. Looking in, we were blessed. My mom was amazing. But as detectives would soon learn, there was a lot going on inside the Hargan household. Ashley and I have been calling my mom in the house in
Speaker 3 26:26
and Helen, no one’s answering.
Speaker 5 26:30
63 -year -old Pamela Hargan gunned down in her own home. Her youngest daughter Helen lay dead upstairs.
Speaker 4 26:36
Patrol when they arrived assumed or thought.
Speaker 2 26:39
that there might have been a murder suicide.
Speaker 5 26:42
but for the detectives on the scene. There were things about the scene itself that were concerning to us on day one. Who would want to kill their mother and their little sister? There is no boogeyman here.
Speaker 5 26:54
It is exactly who we think it is. I’m Peter Vance, sat from 48 Hours. This is Blood is Thicker, the Hargen Family Killings. Listen to Blood is Thicker, the Hargen Family Killings, wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4 27:13
And we’re back.
Speaker 1 27:13
All right, so the layout of this place is like a hotel. Yes, it is.
Speaker 2 27:21
hotel.
Speaker 4 27:22
Yeah, it’s like a hotel. It’s condos. I would say
Speaker 1 27:27
ways with doors. Yes. Okay. Yes. So she’s in a room that’s like a double, right? She’s recorded snoring, so she was out cold, she was out. And then you said an hour later from that video was when it happened.
Speaker 1 27:43
So at some point she left, they don’t think she was abducted from the room. No. Okay. So she left the room, wandered around, either wandered up to their door or they grabbed her or they coaxed her in or.
Speaker 1 27:57
Well, it was speculated. By saying, I mean a group of men who are staying in a room.
Speaker 2 28:02
British guys from Nottingham, also on vacation, staying in this room.
Speaker 4 28:06
Right. But also she had, there were 18 other friends. It was speculated that in maybe looking for somebody, because they had all had rooms all over the hotel. Right. On the ninth, eighth, ninth and tenth floor.
Speaker 4 28:24
And so it was suspected that maybe she was going to the tenth floor to maybe ask or speak to. Oh, right.
Speaker 1 28:32
she was on the ninth floor. Right. So she had to go up a flight. Right. Oh, okay. And then.
Speaker 4 28:37
Maybe she became confused and disoriented. Or just knocked on the wrong door. Exactly.
Speaker 1 28:42
Exactly. Okay. All right. Where does this take us next?
Speaker 2 28:46
So let’s talk a little bit about the guys. You want to talk about the guys who are in the room? Yeah. These five guys. Yeah. So they end up ultimately being called the Benidorm Five by the press because obviously…
Speaker 1 28:58
Five guys didn’t want them to be associated with their hamburgers.
Speaker 2 29:05
Oh, five guys, murders and lies. Thank you.
Speaker 4 29:11
Okay. Well, anyway.
Speaker 1 29:13
So these are the really didn’t actually show you the guys really did says the lady who fell out of her chair
Speaker 2 29:18
So this guy’s name is Joseph Graham. Okay. He’s 32 years old. He works for Amazon in Nottingham. He lives with his girlfriend and her two kids. Okay. Okay, that’s Joe. Yeah. This is a guy named Ricky, Ricky Gammon.
Speaker 2 29:35
He’s married father, a cage fighter guy.
Speaker 1 29:39
Yeah, he’s like topless and ready with his fists up and ready. Yeah, he’s like an MMA fighter dude, right?
Speaker 2 29:45
This guy, Callum, married guy with one kid.
Speaker 1 29:48
Alright, so the first guy looked like a soccer player, the second guy is like an MMA fighter, this guy looks like a sort of Wall Street dude.
Speaker 2 29:56
He’s a heating engineer. I don’t have pictures of the other guys, but Daniel Bailey and a guy named Anthony. How old are these guys? They’re all in their 30s. They’re late 20s, early 30s. They’re all just buddies on vacation.
Speaker 2 30:08
Celebrating a birthday. And she ends up in their room. And there’s like just confusion about why, like first of all, as Kim said, like why was she in their room to begin with, right? Like did she knock on their door thinking it was her friend’s door?
Speaker 2 30:26
you
Speaker 4 30:26
Which seems likely.
Speaker 2 30:28
most likely.
Speaker 1 30:29
Or look, these are good looking guys. Maybe they came upon her and they invited her in for a drink, or maybe they…
Speaker 2 30:37
I don’t know. I don’t know. I mean the thing is, a couple of these guys are, not the music, but a couple of them are married. Like, they’re not super party guys? No, they are party guys. Yeah, they seem like party guys.
Speaker 2 30:46
They’re party. They’re definitely party, you know, or these are party guys on holiday.
Speaker 4 30:50
You know, well, initially, the Spanish investigators were treating this like a homicide, and they had arrested one of them.
Speaker 1 31:02
One of these guys. This guy. Joseph Graham. The first guy. Yes. The brownest of the guys, I would just say.
Speaker 2 31:09
You know, I also did notice that was the case, that the- Well, he-
Speaker 4 31:14
was arrested because he was, his statements were inconsistent. And in other words, they felt like they could get more information if they took him in. Gotcha. And quite a bit.
Speaker 1 31:27
Question him was there any like when they check the body was there any signs of assault or?
Speaker 4 31:32
presuming that they check the body. But that’s another situation. You have to actually check the body. Yeah.
Speaker 1 31:36
So they didn’t check the body, right? You got it. Wow. That is pretty negligent. Yeah.
Speaker 2 31:42
Yeah, but they bring this guy in and as they’re bringing him in they notice also that he’s getting a nosebleed Oh, so they take him to see the doctor who says Not a nosebleed it’s just he’s done so much cocaine that it’s his nose is just destroyed like not
Speaker 4 32:03
Not to mention that he’s intoxicated too. But yes, that’s right. Which…
Speaker 2 32:08
the thing is this is literally a place that is a place you go with your friends in your 20s or 30s or older older but you go there just drink a bunch of drinks and have fun so there’s nothing there’s nothing actually out of the ordinary that these guys would be up super late.
Speaker 2 32:25
Party and drinking.
Speaker 1 32:26
five times the limit of cocaine. He did, yes.
Speaker 2 32:29
Yeah, that’s exactly right. How much cocaine can you do and still drive zero? Is the kids listening? The answer is zero cocaine. Yeah, so this guy’s taken in. So the other thing is her body is discovered by a couple who are checking out.
Speaker 2 32:46
Is that right?
Speaker 4 32:48
the interesting thing. It’s like 8 30 in the morning, right? Yeah. Yeah. I wasn’t really clear who discovered.
Speaker 2 32:55
the body. So I read somewhere something that seems so strange, but it’s all I could find was that a couple who were checking out discovered her body and while they were checking out were like, by the way, there’s a body as they put, but the way I read it was they said that there’s, there’s someone lying by the pool.
Speaker 2 33:12
Okay. Right. So that they were like, Hey, by the way, there’s a person lying by the pool. But I’m like, I mean, 10th floor, 10th floor, like you’re not lying, but like you’re lying by the pool floor.
Speaker 2 33:28
So it just seemed like a weird, like, that doesn’t totally add up. And in fact, her family and Adam have an investigator who’s become involved as much later. We’re like, who was this couple? We’ve never, we’ve never heard from them again.
Speaker 2 33:42
Like who checked out at that time, please come forward. Please tell us what you actually saw. Did you see anything happen? Because it’s such a weird thing to be like,
Speaker 1 33:51
You could be across the pool. Like they might not, did they step over her? Well, it’s interesting. I mean, you know.
Speaker 4 33:57
I don’t know that I would feel compelled to mention if I’m checking out that somebody’s lying by the pool unless I thought oh You would know what I mean is if when I say lying by the pool I mean lying by the pool.
Speaker 4 34:12
No, I don’t like
Speaker 1 34:15
the pair on the ground.
Speaker 2 34:18
You’re like, you definitely would be like, there’s something wrong.
Speaker 1 34:21
There’s someone tanning, but it’s 8 .30 in the morning. They don’t know how tanning works.
Speaker 3 34:28
Okay.
Speaker 4 34:29
also a lot of inconsistencies with Graham’s story. I mean, he had initially told police that he was in apartment 10A with some friends and stated that she had knocked at the door and ran when she saw him.
Speaker 4 34:43
And he had followed her and she ran into 10E. And then he changed the story and said that he hadn’t been, you know, that he had been in 10E the whole time. And he had opened the door and she ran in the room and went right for the bathroom.
Speaker 2 35:02
And were 10A and 10E connected? They were like across. They were across, okay.
Speaker 1 35:06
I mean, look, it’s all kind of plausible. Plus he’s high as shit, but also, uh,
Speaker 2 35:11
That’s a point that’s been raised, is the only people who were around her when this happened were all fucked up. And she was also.
Speaker 1 35:21
knocks on the wrong door and a dude opens the door. She could, I could totally see her running away. And then if the other door is open or whatever, she runs in there. Maybe she’s got to be sick or something.
Speaker 1 35:31
She runs. I mean, could, is there a world where she fell off the balcony? Cause she was so fucked up or is there? There’s so many options here.
Speaker 4 35:39
But I think the thing is, is that not everything that could have been done to get clear information or as clear information as they was not done.
Speaker 1 35:53
But you said that they were treating it like a homicide. They were. Well, because you figured they would do it as an accident and then try to make it go away.
Speaker 2 36:05
Well, it’s all happened so quick, right? Because she goes in the room, and according to Graham, what he told investigators was that he was in the living room with Gammon and Bailey, two of the other guys, and the other two guys were asleep.
Speaker 2 36:23
Right. And the sort of final, as Kim said, there were certainly some inconsistencies, but his sort of final version of events was that there was a knock on the door, Christy came in, he actually, I think the quote was, he said she seemed mad, mad, being out of her mind or drunk.
Speaker 2 36:42
Basically, she just seemed out of sorts. He said she kind of pushed her way into the bedroom, into, sorry, into the bathroom. Right. And then. And tried to get through a window. Yeah, apparently there’s, in this hotel, there’s like.
Speaker 2 36:53
Weird, right? Kim and I were like texting about, this is so weird and gross. There’s like a little interior window between the bathroom and the kitchen. Oh.
Speaker 4 37:03
Like, why is that? Who needs that? Unless you’re like, here’s some snacks. What design is that? Well, my mom eats on the toilets. Like, you’re on the toilet, and here’s the sandwich.
Speaker 2 37:12
just like gross, no, just no. Right, exactly. So she tried to climb through that window and then she couldn’t get through that. And so then he says she went to the balcony.
Speaker 4 37:22
And that she fell off the balcony. He didn’t see her fall.
Speaker 2 37:26
jumped right what the other guys remember is one of the guys who was sleeping remembers waking up hearing Graham screaming you’re in the wrong room get the fuck out oh okay that’s what he says he heard and then Graham says he saw her run he didn’t see her jump but he when he came around she was gone and he just goes fuck she jumped right right so
Speaker 1 37:50
That’s their story. I mean, okay. It’s not in.
Speaker 4 37:54
look but that’s the thing though it’s it’s not it’s not
Speaker 2 37:58
but it doesn’t, okay, let’s just walk through that for a second. So this is a woman who, okay. So she’s had some drinks, but some to a bunch of drinks.
Speaker 4 38:11
Right, she was intoxicated.
Speaker 2 38:13
Right. But she’s married to this guy. She’s been in love with forever. She has a great family. Great job. There’s no her family who says they’re all close. They all talk about everything. There’s no signs of maybe she’s not used to being that drunk.
Speaker 2 38:27
Yeah, maybe, but like that doesn’t make you jump off a balcony. Well, that was the.
Speaker 4 38:32
thing I mean you know Spanish authorities had these theories where they were saying yes she jumped or maybe she was sleepwalking or balcony have you ever heard of that expression no balcony no he obviously knows because every crazy thing that there is to do you know Adam knows it’s yeah
Speaker 1 38:56
Yeah, I can do it. I can make it. I can make the pool. Yeah, it’s not a good idea.
Speaker 2 39:01
I’ll do it. Well, here’s the thing. So I didn’t know the term, but I did think of it. And here’s the, so I got, I found a picture of the view from the room and was interesting. I’m going to show you guys this picture, but I want to say first.
Speaker 2 39:11
So this is a perspective issue, right? Because when you are on the 10th floor looking down, it always looks like you can make it. It looks like you can make it. Yeah. It’s just sort of a forced perspective illusion.
Speaker 2 39:22
Right. Where things, because you’re higher up, everything looks closer than it is. And you don’t understand, especially if you’re intoxicated, but even if you’re sober, you actually cannot correctly judge distance.
Speaker 2 39:34
Your brain can’t do it. 100%. The other thing to mention is that we keep saying the word balcony. Right. And I was texting with Kim about this yesterday.
Speaker 4 39:43
What the fuck was that? They’re not balconies. They’re not balconies. There’s something called a Juliet. you
Speaker 2 39:48
Balcony right the balconies are like not even as wide as this they’re like
Speaker 1 39:56
with a bar. Yeah, like here’s why does this what do you mean by this?
Speaker 2 40:00
like this table area here. Like not even 12, they’re like 12 inches. Okay.
Speaker 1 40:05
pointing to a 12 -inch table.
Speaker 2 40:06
So they’re so they’re not really balconies, right? They’re like you could maybe stand on it purchase They’re more like like they’re like the light the width of your shoe. Oh, it’s falconing. It’s falcony
Speaker 1 40:18
It’s a, they’re, they’re falconing and birds come and land. Wait, so it’s like, it’s not, is it meant to be climbed on? Well, should you be out there? There’s no rail. I don’t think there is a rail. There is a rail.
Speaker 1 40:31
Yeah. So there is, but it feels like that’s all there is. First of all.
Speaker 2 40:35
Here’s a picture of, this is the room in question.
Speaker 1 40:39
So you can go online and look at this, right?
Speaker 2 40:40
This is the balcony, right? You see it’s a tiny little ledge with a rail.
Speaker 1 40:45
like you step on there to smoke that’s at the most right but i’m saying like that’s what it feels like it’s for like you you slide open a window you step out there you have a little cigarette it’s not meant to be hanging out on
Speaker 2 40:57
And that’s the the view from that balcony looking down at the pool. Oh looks totally doable, right from that view Right, you would think the fact there’s a couple of pools It looks like so but here’s the thing this woman was not into balcony.
Speaker 2 41:10
That’s not a thing that now She’s not so if she was thinking I need to jump into that pool. It was because she felt Rhettened right or scared or like it was just felt to her and and whether she felt Okay, let’s just if we play that through let’s say that’s what happened.
Speaker 2 41:27
She was like, oh my god I got to get out of here and instead of going the other way because there was a guy there and there’s guys over there Right like in her state. It is possible that she was just in a state of fear and panic and was like I can make the pool
Speaker 1 41:44
me ask you guys, I’m sensing from the two of you that you, you feel like there’s nefarious stuff that the guys were up to or, or something.
Speaker 4 41:54
I’ll say this, it’s not that I necessarily think that there was anything nefarious, but I do think that there were a lot of missed opportunities to get to the bottom of what actually happened.
Speaker 1 42:08
Right. But that’s on law enforcement. But as far as like the scenario, like it feels like I’m getting from you two that it feels like the guys did something bad or that something I think the guys didn’t help.
Speaker 1 42:21
I’m sure they didn’t. Guys rarely do. But what I’m saying is like, I don’t know, it feels like I’ve been, you know, back in the day enough you know, guys and girls that everybody’s drunk and acting crazy.
Speaker 1 42:35
Like bad things can happen that are completely, you know, nothing bad. Like she knocks on the door. I mean, look, guys, you know, drunk guys in the middle of the night, cute girl knocks on the door. Like they’re going to be curious and they’re going to want to talk or whatever.
Speaker 1 42:49
And like, I don’t know what whether she flipped out or not, whether she, you know, fell or ran or did something stupid. But like, yeah, I’m not getting the the guys did something bad yet unless there’s like other evidence to come out.
Speaker 4 43:05
that they did something bad. But I think that
Speaker 1 43:09
stories not matching up and you know inconsistencies when you have like drunk people and stuff you know anyway let’s get to the bottom of this right after a quick break and we’re back Kim is giving me a look
Speaker 2 43:25
I was like, what are you saying? Woman comes into your room while you’re drunk at the end of the night? What happens exactly here?
Speaker 1 43:32
saying like you’re out on party holiday and a new thing of fun has just happened.
Speaker 2 43:37
You got well, here’s the thing you got five guys in this room two are theoretically asleep three are awake One of them is definitely doing cocaine the other we don’t know right so you’re in you’re in a situation like in that situation Those guys are either gonna be like curious and interested in this new thing that’s come in They’re gonna be or they’re gonna be kind of neutral like whatever or they’re gonna be like,
Speaker 2 44:01
let me help you Well, that was gonna be my fourth option my third option My third option was they’re gonna be like get the fuck out Like who are you we don’t want anything to do with this like we’re in our own
Speaker 1 44:14
that doesn’t that doesn’t drive with mice no but
Speaker 2 44:17
that scene. Honestly, I think that’s probably she’s going
Speaker 1 44:20
crazy if she starts fucking up for a start.
Speaker 2 44:22
I think they, I think she came in crazy. Yeah, I think she came in in a state and they were like, we, this is, we don’t need, whatever this is, like we don’t need this in our zone right now.
Speaker 1 44:35
think they threw her out the window because, or the balcony, because like, she was going nuts in there. No, I don’t think.
Speaker 4 44:42
Why did you just come to that conclusion?
Speaker 2 44:44
Same thing to say. Wait, what? She’s acting crazy. Let’s throw her out.
Speaker 1 44:48
What? She won’t leave. Oh, like I’ve never thought about throwing Kim out of a window.
Speaker 2 44:53
Any any one of these guys is is big enough that they could have like yeah picked her up and like put her in the Hallway and go find your saying that they
Speaker 1 45:02
He’d throw her out the window. I’m just saying she’s went out the window. But the fourth option.
Speaker 2 45:05
is help, right? Like if someone’s in a state, I don’t know that these guys were in the condition to be helpful. And so it leaves you kind of like neutral, curious, or like get the fuck out. Those are kind of your three options.
Speaker 1 45:21
Or one of them could be helpful. I don’t know. You know, there’s usually like, you know, everybody runs together like, well, I don’t leave. Don’t leave. Yeah. No, no, stay, stay. Let’s have a drink. Let’s, you know, whatever.
Speaker 1 45:31
Like there’s that guy. And then there was like, uh, are you okay? Like, which.
Speaker 2 45:36
You know, I hadn’t thought of that, but if you’re her, you’re alone, you’re just looking for one of your friends. You wander in this room, there’s three guys who are big dudes who are clearly also been awake all night partying.
Speaker 2 45:49
If one of them was like, hey, come hang out, in the state she was in of being just woken up in an unfamiliar place, a little intoxicated, your brain could interpret that as much more aggressive than maybe it was.
Speaker 2 46:02
So she could have also been overly anxious about the situation.
Speaker 1 46:08
or she could be drunk and be like yeah sure let’s party whatever like you know like the girl who doesn’t want to leave the barn her friends have to drag her out what I’m talking to these guys what are you doing
Speaker 4 46:23
It didn’t.
Speaker 2 46:24
Sorry, no because she even had like left at one point earlier tonight She wasn’t feeling well because of all the drinking like this is not she’s not like the hey, let’s party all night, right?
Speaker 1 46:35
People do behave that’s different.
Speaker 2 46:38
Right. We weren’t there. We don’t know.
Speaker 4 46:40
And that’s that’s the thing that’s the crux of it, but they did find a cigarette belonging to gram and
Speaker 2 46:47
Where? She had… Near the balcony. The balcony’s picked.
Speaker 4 46:51
unspoken. Yeah. And fingerprints at that window. Of her. Yeah. Which matched his story. Right. So we know that she was there and we know that they were the last people to have seen her.
Speaker 2 47:08
And the cigarette in particular became like a big deal because the Spanish police were like, well, that shows that he was standing near the balcony, didn’t smoke his cigarette. So something must have distracted him.
Speaker 2 47:23
So they jumped to like, maybe he, maybe that was when he pushed her off.
Speaker 1 47:28
What if she asked for a cigarette or you offered her a cigarette and she went out there to smoke it?
Speaker 2 47:32
What if he was like getting ready to smoke and like walked over there and like saw what had happened and just was in a state of shock and dropped a cigarette, never smoked it.
Speaker 1 47:41
That’s true too. There’s a hundred different explanations you can come up with. I’m just saying a defense lawyer could get these guys off pretty… Okay, so did they all get interviewed? No.
Speaker 4 47:52
What? Well, what happened was that they arrested this guy. Just the one. And he was released after a couple of days. Because they didn’t have any rain. And they had then concluded that it was just a tragic accident.
Speaker 4 48:13
So they changed it. Originally it was ruled a murder. Initially they were treating it as if it were a homicide. Or rather, they were questioning. So it felt like they initially began to start it off by asking questions.
Speaker 4 48:28
But it was interesting to me that they didn’t interview all the men at that time. It’s interesting to me that they didn’t separate the men and interview them individually away from each other. It’s interesting that they didn’t even interview the women she were with.
Speaker 2 48:50
Yeah, they took a statement from one girl and some random notes from some other ones. The roommate, I guess. I don’t know if it was even the roommate. The other fucked up thing in this is like, so this is all less than 24 hours after her husband had dropped her off.
Speaker 1 49:07
Right.
Speaker 2 49:08
So he says, you know, he was at home the next day who was settling in he specifically remembers He was getting ready to watch a Ranger Celtic game Ranger Celtic Ranger Celtic, which I know doesn’t sound right to you.
Speaker 2 49:22
Oh, it’s that’s not good. Okay Josh is clutching his heart Read this and I was like Ranger Celtic those aren’t and he remembers this because this is I like I was like Why does he remember that space?
Speaker 2 49:37
It was these are They’re called the old firm these two teams. Okay, and these are the most successful and most storied Soccer football teams in in Scotland so much so that when you look into them It’s like there’s not only if they’re part of Scottish culture, but that these teams right this team’s rivalry is actually shaped Scottish culture It’s like been was part of like the trouble like as a whole So he was like,
Speaker 2 50:01
I remember vividly I was sitting down to watch this game and I get a call from a man with a Spanish accent who in broken English asks me if I’m sitting down and Then tells me that my wife is dead. Oh and he Said this is obviously a terrible prank and a joke
Speaker 4 50:20
Yeah, he thought it was. Yeah.
Speaker 2 50:22
I just thought this was a prank. So he calls her, doesn’t get an answer. And then he calls another girl in the party who is hysterical and is like.
Speaker 4 50:32
It’s confirmed. It’s confirmed. And then…
Speaker 2 50:34
And then he has to call Denise, Kristy’s mother, who’s in a car with her sister, Kristy’s aunt. It was just horrible. It’s just one of these things where you start to think about what would that be like if it was, it’s just.
Speaker 2 50:51
Can’t even.
Speaker 1 50:52
Yeah. And. First. Fucking.
Speaker 2 50:55
night too like they just got it just got it dude this was less than 12 like literally like they he had said goodbye to her was like it was less than 12 yeah and you know it’s like if she was intoxicated and fell off her own balcony god forbid right it’s like horrible but there’s not much of a question as to what happened yeah there’s gonna be a blame game but now it’s like what what complicates this for them and what makes it even more and I understand why this makes it more horrible for them is it happen in this room with these five guys yeah and these five guys may literally may have just been she knocked on their door got freaked out went to the balcony she could have literally run to the balcony and that balcony is so tiny she could have just
Speaker 1 51:41
Let me see the let me see the railing again like is that like an easy to get over railing or is that like You got to be climbing
Speaker 2 51:51
No, it’s an, it’s a, it’s like a waist height, really, or she was freaked out. You know, some one, one investigator said she could have known she, maybe she was trying to climb to the next room or to get to the pool.
Speaker 1 52:04
But like at my bachelor party there was a balcony in the room and one of my friends kept vomiting off of it And I’m wondering if like I guess they didn’t find anything like that. It was really funny There was all this the next morning.
Speaker 1 52:17
We looked over the balcony. It was all this puke on the balcony below us Oh my god, somebody was like, oh, man, it looks like they were partying a lot too. It’s like no asshole I think it came from our balcony.
Speaker 1 52:27
I remember that balcony. Yeah But the point is um Like could she have like had to like throw up or something and leaned over too far, you know, that’s
Speaker 2 52:36
entirely possible.
Speaker 1 52:37
at me like, I don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.
Speaker 2 52:41
Well, I remember sitting on the edge of that balcony at your party and I was just sitting there totally calm and someone woke up to me and was like, man, you’re not afraid of heights. And I was like, I’m a little afraid of heights and like, why are you sitting on the, like I wasn’t sitting over the side, but I just sitting on the balcony and then I looked down and had the worst vertigo.
Speaker 2 53:01
I was like, well, thanks asshole. You’re sitting on the ledge? Yeah. So this is what I’m talking about. Sitting facing whatever. We were like.
Speaker 1 53:10
know how old are we? And right. But you were drunk probably or whatever. I’m just saying people. Well, according to.
Speaker 4 53:16
Yeah, you do dumb things. That’s what I’m saying. You do dumb shit. Yeah. I mean, the family had a man by the name of David Swindle. Mm -hmm. David Swindle? Yes. Okay. Who would follow up and do their own investigation.
Speaker 4 53:31
Okay. Because at this point, they still didn’t have answers. And they had experts. And there was an expert that had determined that she didn’t just go over the balcony, but that she was facing the balcony and facing her gaze would have been in the direction towards the window.
Speaker 4 53:50
Like she fell off backwards. Right. So it’s how did she get into that position?
Speaker 2 53:59
Which, there’s so many ways that could have happened, right? She could have been pushed there, but she also could have been, what if she was trying to climb or… What’s that?
Speaker 1 54:08
She was sitting like you.
Speaker 2 54:09
No.
Speaker 4 54:10
No, but climbing.
Speaker 2 54:13
I mean, or she was feeling threatened justifiably or not. Like she could have just been feeling like this is a bad situation and this is my best way out. The thing is, you know, the autopsy was very inconclusive as to exactly what she pushed.
Speaker 2 54:33
Did she jump? Did she fall?
Speaker 1 54:35
But the determination of cause was the fall. There was no extra, oh, she also had a bonk on the head or… No, no, no, no.
Speaker 4 54:45
It was accidental, that was what, and for the Spanish police, it was a done deal.
Speaker 2 54:54
And to the extent that, like, so this guy, David Swindle, who’s an excellent investigator at the family hires, he ends up becoming, like, his investigation becomes a documentary for the BBC about the case.
Speaker 2 55:04
There was another film for MTV in Europe about this case, about the woman who hosts that show, like, went to Benidorm to try and figure out what happened. And nobody’s been able to figure a few things out.
Speaker 2 55:16
Number one, there was a question was, like, was anyone else’s DNA found on her body or her clothes? There was no DNA testing done on her body by the Spanish, and her clothes were burned almost immediately by the Spanish authorities.
Speaker 2 55:31
There were multiple hotels that face this hotel. So, theoretically…
Speaker 4 55:36
Hotel Presidente.
Speaker 2 55:38
Right. Hotel Presidente looks at this hotel, so if you were doing good police work, you would have gone to every single, you would have gone to those hotels and said, nobody’s leaving these hotels until we talked to every single person who could have potentially seen what happened.
Speaker 2 55:51
Was she alone? Was there someone with her? None of that was done. The couple that found the body were never found or investigated. There was people at a nearby cafe who saw something. They were never found and questioned.
Speaker 2 56:04
So the police work here was…
Speaker 4 56:06
flopped the ball. It was so shoddy. It was so shoddy. One of the other things that came up was that
Speaker 2 56:13
is always interrupting the woman.
Speaker 4 56:17
One of the other things that had come up was, I believe it was Graham had said that when
Speaker 1 56:23
I love that the guy doing coke is named Graham, but that’s either here nor there
Speaker 4 56:30
Anyway, Bram had said that initially he had thought that when Kirstie had come in, right, that he thought that she was a woman that was with one of his friends.
Speaker 3 56:48
Yeah.
Speaker 4 56:49
And it turned out that there was a woman that had been a part of their group, and that woman was never questioned. Which I thought was- Who knew the guys?
Speaker 1 56:59
Right. Were they partying in any of the same places either? We don’t know. Was there any content? I don’t know.
Speaker 4 57:07
So you said there was CC? There was no, my understanding was there was no contact, like they had not encountered each other, they had not partied together.
Speaker 1 57:16
Now, there’s no cameras, like you said, there was CCTV that caught her coming into the building. Was there anything in the hallways?
Speaker 4 57:22
no camera, that was the other thing too. CCTV was only focused, or the CCTV and the footage that they pulled were focused on Kirsty and her friends, but they didn’t obtain any other footage with the men or…
Speaker 1 57:42
they just set up.
Speaker 4 57:43
the girls no but they didn’t seek out footage you would think that that would be something
Speaker 1 57:50
the hallway, like the one that catches them. But it wasn’t, it wasn’t done.
Speaker 2 57:53
So they did test her nails, hands, and a couple of body parts, like her arms. They didn’t find any foreign DNA there. They, because the family was justifiably upset that the investigation was just so poorly handled.
Speaker 2 58:10
They just were like, she didn’t kill herself, that’s not what she would have done. Unlike, it’s just not, none of it adds up. And in their mind, they kept saying something, they feel like something dark or sinister happened in that room.
Speaker 2 58:22
And so they put enough pressure on the Spanish authorities over their shoddy investigation to where in November 2018, all eight officers who were involved were questioned under oath by the Spanish courts.
Speaker 2 58:35
They wanted to also question all five of the guys who were in the room. All five of them said they could not attend because of work obligations. So they couldn’t fly from Scotland back to Spain, which was their right under Spanish law.
Speaker 2 58:49
They, you’re allowed to say that.
Speaker 1 58:52
soccer game is on, I can’t.
Speaker 2 58:54
And the other, the other interesting thing with, uh, Spanish law is that you don’t have to answer questions.
Speaker 4 59:03
from the
Speaker 2 59:04
from the prosecution unless you’re formally charged, which apparently they don’t typically do formal charges until like right before a trial. It’s like different than here. So the guys, even when they were questioned initially, right afterwards, only had to answer questions from the defense because they weren’t charged with a crime.
Speaker 2 59:27
So prosecutors, which we want to call prosecutors, or people working on behalf of the family weren’t really allowed to ask them to anything.
Speaker 1 59:34
And only the one guy, was he ever charged? He was brought in, but he was never charged. He wasn’t charged, no. I mean, it’s hard to find a charge. What are you charging them for? And the family.
Speaker 2 59:43
also pointed out with this guy that there was a prior he was cleared of a prior allegation of an assault who’s a gram a gram but but it was cleared and so wasn’t right he
Speaker 4 59:57
Wasn’t convicted. You were convicted.
Speaker 2 59:58
and have anything so they were like okay like people you know just because you’re charged with something especially if you’re cleared you have to accept if you’re gonna accept a guilty conviction in a court you also have to accept the clear you can’t play it both ways the sort of the you know
Speaker 1 01:00:14
Here’s a question. Has anyone ever fallen before? Has anyone ever gotten hurt at that hotel?
Speaker 2 01:00:22
Not that I found.
Speaker 4 01:00:23
No, no.
Speaker 2 01:00:25
I mean, I looked but I didn’t, you know, again, maybe they have and it wasn’t in the records, but I didn’t see anything.
Speaker 1 01:00:32
I mean, it doesn’t look super safe, but people don’t typically follow.
Speaker 4 01:00:37
Right. October 2019, the Spanish court would formally rule Christie’s death as accidental. And, you know, her family would appeal in July 2020. And still, no evidence of criminal activity could be found.
Speaker 4 01:00:58
But, you know, the truth of the matter is, is that there was never any meaningful attempts to trace potential witnesses and question them about what went on that night. And a lot of it may just be too late.
Speaker 4 01:01:14
A lot of it, you know, there were just so many missed opportunities and sloppy police work.
Speaker 1 01:01:22
And none of these documentaries or MTV show, none of that turned up anything new or.
Speaker 4 01:01:30
If anything, it only just pointed the finger at the Spanish authorities and their ineptitude.
Speaker 2 01:01:38
And they all make a point of like, it’s an odd, weird things about this case is you have this elevator, and I have to show it to you, but you have footage from the girls coming back at 5 .45am. There is a camera in the lobby and you see the girls come back in and their pink shirts at 5 .45am.
Speaker 2 01:01:58
Right. And then you see her friend who was, as a joke, filming Kristi snoring in their room at 7am. And then Kristi is discovered by 8am. So the timeline is so well established and it’s not like…
Speaker 4 01:02:13
Exactly.
Speaker 2 01:02:15
It’s like it would almost be more open to suspicion if there was none of these. Timestamped videos. And like we, her friends were like, yeah, she, she left us at 2AM and we don’t know what happened, you know, and then you’re like, okay, well, but it’s like, she was in the elevator, she was in her room an hour later.
Speaker 1 01:02:33
craziest part that she was in her room. Sound asleep. Did that footage go out online or whatever? Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:02:41
Yeah. And her family, of course, understandably, because it’s just aside from the fact of the horrible tragedy of this, the fact that the investigation was so shoddy, again, it’s a resort town, different set of laws and different approaches, but also they prefer not to have
Speaker 1 01:02:59
you know, well, accidents better than murder.
Speaker 2 01:03:03
And so, yeah, they’re to this day, they’re still trying to figure out what exactly they just want to know what happened. And these five guys, which understandably are like, look, you know, in their opinion, like this person came in who was confused and disoriented and drunk and went off the balcony.
Speaker 1 01:03:21
them claim to have seen her go.
Speaker 2 01:03:24
none of them saw. The only one who could have seen would have been Graham, but he said he was still in the bathroom blocked from the view of the balcony. And he didn’t see she was gone until he saw her leave and head in that direction.
Speaker 2 01:03:37
And by the time he came around, she was gone. So nobody claims to have seen the actual moment. And so the family understandably is like, we need to know more. You want closure. And it’s just like,
Speaker 3 01:03:50
it’s it’s it’s
Speaker 4 01:03:51
It’s, I think what upsets them is just sort of being dismissed by the Spanish authorities and just any attempt to get any answers or understanding is just met with roadblock after roadblock and it is their feeling that she is being sort of dismissed as this drunken Brit that came and whatever it’s over and I imagine that that’s, you know, pretty painful.
Speaker 4 01:04:27
I mean, I’ve watched them in interviews and they are just bereft. Yeah. You can’t help but just ache with them. Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:04:40
Yeah, I watched a few and I was like, I don’t want to, the pain of it is so, you know.
Speaker 4 01:04:46
And the other thing that they had mentioned too, which was interesting, was just even the lack of support from their home country.
Speaker 2 01:04:55
Which actually went to parl- I don’t know if they call it parliament, but yeah I guess it’s parliament. But they actually had a hearing about that related to curiosity and a couple of other people who were on vacation in other places.
Speaker 4 01:05:10
country handles death abroad.
Speaker 2 01:05:13
Which is generally poorly right they don’t generally
Speaker 1 01:05:16
Is it an aptitude or is it like a sort of like, let’s not do too much and stir up the, you know. It’s unclear. Yeah, I don’t know. All right, final thoughts and takeaway right after this quick break.
Speaker 4 01:05:32
And we’re back. Hey, honey. All right. Well, yeah, this was, yeah. Well, there is a charity. The parents began a charity called the Kirsty Maxwell charity, and it was set up in her memory. So the charity is centered on helping those who have loved ones that died abroad and support in helping them deal with that.
Speaker 1 01:06:07
Yeah, that is a it is a tough pill to swallow and the friends, I guess. Oh, my God, the wedding. Like you got to get married after this and the rest of the trip. And yeah, I mean, in fact.
Speaker 4 01:06:19
That one, the friend was like, I don’t want to get married. I don’t want to do this. And her, her, Kirstie’s parents were, you know, like, no, you have to, um, Kirstie would want you to, you know, carry on with, with your plans.
Speaker 1 01:06:35
husband he’s just devastated no I’m saying like I mean it’s been how long ago was this this happened
Speaker 4 01:06:42
in 2017.
Speaker 1 01:06:45
Right. I mean, did he move on and get married again? Or do we know it? I mean, obviously, it’s tragic. I don’t know. He’s gotten married again.
Speaker 2 01:06:53
some recent interviews with him. It seemed like he was still quite deep in the grief. Right.
Speaker 4 01:07:00
Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:07:01
Is that is that the worst part like just to not knowing?
Speaker 4 01:07:04
Well, you know, that’s interesting. I think it is. I think it’s, I think it’s the not knowing. I think it’s feeling dismissed and invalidated, not being heard, not being cared for. And I think that the sting for them too is that they felt that way with the Spanish authorities and even with their home country, because their home country didn’t offer them any support.
Speaker 4 01:07:35
And they had to do a GoFundMe sort of situation to bring her home, because it was just so expensive. And you know, and so even part of this website too, and part of this charity is to bring home the point that there’s more needing to be done in the way of finding a genuine conclusion to this case.
Speaker 1 01:08:05
Did that David Swindle guy ever have like a theory? I mean he had.
Speaker 4 01:08:09
Tons of theories
Speaker 2 01:08:10
theories. His biggest thing is he keeps putting out calls for these witnesses, even recently. He’s like, come forward. Whoever was staying near there, you know who you are. We don’t know who you are.
Speaker 2 01:08:23
Please. Even if your memory isn’t super clear anymore, just anything you know. So he’s continued just pleading, just for the sake of the family, not even at this point for any legal aspects necessarily.
Speaker 2 01:08:35
He would just really like to provide as much closure as he can for Adam and her family. And so he’s continued to just ask for any witnesses to please present themselves. No. Right. And.
Speaker 4 01:08:48
And even a lot of workers.
Speaker 1 01:08:50
There might not be any.
Speaker 4 01:08:51
a lot of what he says, too, is addressed in this website as well. Look, there might not be. That’s the thing. It may very well be this was a tragic accident. But the thing is, is that it was not properly handled.
Speaker 4 01:09:10
It was not properly investigated. It wasn’t. They really mailed it in, getting these answers. And even if you have to deal with the fact that it is a horrible accident, at least you can deal with that if you understand that that’s what it is.
Speaker 4 01:09:31
If everything has been done, you know?
Speaker 2 01:09:35
Like, it would be great if at some point David Swindle can come to some conclusion, even if that conclusion for the family is like, look, we’ve looked into this. Here’s the deal. This was a horrible, horrible accident.
Speaker 2 01:09:47
And that’s it. And then let’s close this chapter. Because in a way, it’s like, I can understand the family is both trying to mourn and grief and move on, but also are still trying to figure out what happened.
Speaker 2 01:10:02
And so in a way, it’s like, you can’t fully close the grieving chapter because you have this sense of like, what if something had happened to her and it wasn’t just an accident. And being able to have closure one way or the other would just, I could just see how that would be so helpful for them.
Speaker 2 01:10:21
And they don’t have that yet.
Speaker 4 01:10:23
Right. I mean, you want to know, I think, what happened, you know? So guys, what do you think the takeaway is?
Speaker 1 01:10:33
Eee, I don’t know, uh, what do you think Jerry?
Speaker 2 01:10:39
Thanks. Putting me on the spot. I actually don’t know that I have any takeaway from this one, to be completely honest. This is just a bit of a mess, and I just feel bad for everyone. Like, I was trying to think, like, I was trying to also put myself in the shoes of, like, what if I was one of those five guys hanging out with friends and someone wandered in, you know, really out of their mind and just,
Speaker 2 01:11:03
like, ran to the balcony for some reason, went off. Like, what would that be like for…
Speaker 1 01:11:09
Yeah, but it might not be that quick. Maybe it’s like she came in, they were talking, things seem fun at first, and then she started to get out of control. I don’t know. Like, you don’t, you don’t, guys started to do something untoward.
Speaker 1 01:11:22
I mean, right. I mean, look, go.
Speaker 4 01:11:24
are all possibilities. I mean, another thing that came up during the, you know, when I was researching it was the guy being interviewed was very oddly fixated on how pretty she was, which is rather odd.
Speaker 4 01:11:40
It doesn’t mean that he did anything.
Speaker 2 01:11:45
It’s not necessarily odd because if you don’t know somebody and something traumatic has happened, you might fixate on one thing about them. Like, oh they had the craziest hair, or like, she was pretty, or…
Speaker 4 01:11:57
Yeah, I don’t know. That still seems kind of creepy to me.
Speaker 1 01:12:00
But also, he was yelling, get the fuck out of here. The legacy was, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 01:12:04
We don’t. Yeah. That’s the hardest part, the not knowing, which is why it would have been really helpful to question everybody. What did you hear? What did you see? And get, you know,
Speaker 1 01:12:17
I guess that’s the that’s the takeaway right these resort towns You know that they’re always gonna circle the wagons and try to protect their tourism industry Yeah, look as a parent. I think we would also try to tell our daughter like don’t drink so much That you are really at the mercy of Other people I don’t want to blame look I yeah, I mean look I’m not trying to blame the victim
Speaker 4 01:12:43
But again, it’s sort of that personal responsibility in the way of just always being on the lookout and making sure that your faculties are such that you can be to the very best of your ability. I mean, whenever there are substances and alcohol involved, you’re compromised.
Speaker 4 01:13:08
You just are.
Speaker 1 01:13:10
It’s just weird that she was in bed snoring at seven and she was dead at eight. That’s not a lot of time. There’s no motive. There’s no potential, like, you know, unless… Yeah, it’s really fucked up.
Speaker 4 01:13:24
Yeah, it’s a it’s a absolute tragedy, you know, and I hope that that family finds peace and healing and, you know, that somehow they can, you know, get the answers that they need.
Speaker 2 01:13:38
They’re not, though. I don’t think they’re going to, that’s, that’s, that’s the thing that struck me. That’s sort of my, I guess, this is not really take away. Well, I mean, I put myself in their shoes at one point, because this case is really a little haunting because it’s just so, so tragic.
Speaker 2 01:13:53
I was like, man, I don’t know. Like if I, something like that happened and I didn’t have the answers, what would I need to be able to move on without having definitive answers? And I think at some point I would just have to say to myself, I just have to move on.
Speaker 2 01:14:09
Like there’s not, you’re not. And that, in a way, is peace. That’s what I’m just, I was like, how do you, but I was like, in my mind, I was like, how do I get to that acceptance? And I don’t know. But that’s, that was my thought was like, I would have to, you have to make peace with the loss and all, which is already hard enough, but also with the not knowing.
Speaker 2 01:14:28
And it’s two separate, it’s two very different things.
Speaker 4 01:14:32
Right. Yeah. I mean, I guess I don’t even know what my takeaway is, I guess.
Speaker 2 01:14:36
on a very special episode of Slickation.
Speaker 1 01:14:38
Yeah. Okay. We went from a yacht rock to a sad somber ending, but that’s the way it goes. All right. Well, thank you for joining us on another episode of Slaycation and we will be back.
Speaker 4 01:14:54
one for the next and we hope you will too
