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our transcript
Speaker 1 00:00
Wanna just shove a big hunk of bread in your mouth first? Yes. Cook up!
Speaker 2 00:04
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
Speaker 3 00:07
Nothing makes this location better than a Kettle One cocktail.
Speaker 1 00:24
Pack your body bags, we’re going on a Slaycation. These are murders and mysterious deaths that happen while people are on vacation. The three different ways that you can do a Slaycation, if you go on vacation and one person murders the other, Slaycation, if you go on vacation and you get murdered, also Slaycation, and if you go on vacation and then decide to murder somebody, also a Slaycation.
Speaker 1 00:48
You, the listeners, you guys are the slacators, and then if you do a Slaycation, you’re a Slaycationer. A Slaycation -er. Right. Like, wow. That’s the distinction. Anyway, and speaking of slacators, we have a new Facebook group called Slacators Only that you can come and you can reach out to us.
Speaker 1 01:08
Do we really? Yeah. That’s a real thing. Yeah, Facebook group. Like the boys only. Like slacators only. Yeah, they put only. I love it. Because they don’t want dabblers. They want only dedicated slacators.
Speaker 1 01:19
Gotta be committed. And yeah, but you can reach out to us. You can send us messages. You can post things. We’ll come back to you.
Speaker 3 01:26
Is this a place you can go to like get tips on planning a slakation or is that not that’s probably not allowed
Speaker 1 01:31
I would not want to do that then I’m sure yeah, I’m sure we would get shut down immediately or you could also
Speaker 3 01:37
Also go on our website, Slaycation .wtf, as in Slaycation dot, what the fuck.
Speaker 1 01:42
Yeah, we got the coveted WTF. Yeah, it was a very, very hard to get. Yes, we’re the only ones that have it. I’m looking across the table, I see my wife, Kim. Hi, the woman. Yes, my wife of 24 years. And then I see my friend and business partner, we’ve been friends for like 30 plus years and business partners for close to 15, 20 at this point.
Speaker 1 02:08
My friend too. And yeah, and Jeremy and Kim are also friends, they’ve known each other since Kim and I were dating a long time ago. And I am Adam Tex -Davis, your co -host. And let’s get right into the case, which I don’t know anything about, Kim and Jerry.
Speaker 1 02:21
They know the details, they’re gonna tell it to me. I’m the proxy for the listener, I get to ask questions and interrupt them and make them mad. Okay, where are we slicating today, Kimmy?
Speaker 4 02:31
So today we are taking our slake -hating journey on a honeymoon in South Africa. First up, Johannesburg, South Africa’s largest city known as the City of Gold, and home to the Apartheid Museum, and one of the world’s largest man -made woodland areas.
Speaker 4 02:53
Then to Cape Town, loved for its breathtaking scenery and white sandy beaches, rich history, wine, and fine dining. Cape Town is the second -largest city in South Africa. Our newlyweds, Shireen and his lovely and brilliant bride, Annie Douani, arrived in Johannesburg, South Africa, on Tuesday, November 9, 2010, and would spend the first three days celebrating their nuptials at Chihuah Chihuah Game Lodge,
Speaker 4 03:23
a luxury five -star resort located at Kruger National Park, where the couple went on safari and enjoyed sightings of diverse wildlife populations. Oh, what fun. Then on November 12, the couple took an evening flight from Johannesburg to Cape Town, which is the second -largest city in South Africa.
Speaker 4 03:46
Upon landing and retrieving their luggage, the two took a taxi to the Cape Grace Hotel. The driver, Zola Tonga, gave his phone number to the couple to use for his services. What was the driver’s name again?
Speaker 4 04:00
Zola Tonga. Zola Tonga. Yes.
Speaker 1 04:03
That’s a cool name. First name, last name. Zola. Taga.
Speaker 3 04:07
Exactly. Nice. Yes. That’s the only name in this case that we can pronounce. That is correct. Oh. Everything else is going to get very dicey. It’s going to be very messy. The guy’s name was what? Sheena?
Speaker 4 04:17
Is it Shreem?
Speaker 1 04:18
I think it’s Sri and Sri and okay, right, but you said he’s Indian. Yes. Okay. Yeah Yeah, and then his bride is Annie Annie Oh nice easy to pronounce name there right and then they’re being driven around by Zola Tonga.
Speaker 1 04:32
Yes Yeah, they’ve gone to Johannesburg
Speaker 4 04:36
and then Cape Town. Right. When they arrived in Cape Town, they met this driver and liked him and decided, you know what? Let’s just have this guy be our driver. Right. He’ll be the one that we call.
Speaker 3 04:49
And just to just to mention Shriyan and Annie come from very similar backgrounds Both of their families are of Indian descent and Hindu Hindu. Yes, they live in India or no So this was interesting both families discord They didn’t know each other in Uganda, but they both families were in in Uganda and had to flee families had to flee when Edia mean Took over and said I we don’t want anyone here who’s not Ugandan.
Speaker 3 05:16
Gotcha Her family had moved to Sweden and His family had moved to London. Okay, so but they had very similar, you know backgrounds Both parents then built very successful businesses her family in Sweden and his in London.
Speaker 3 05:32
Okay
Speaker 4 05:33
And where do they meet they actually met in London Annie had some close family Relatives her cousin was actually her best friend and she would travel to London frequently and That is where she met her betrothed
Speaker 3 05:50
And the way they met was that she was not finding a lot of prospects in Sweden there’s not a big Indian community in Sweden and she really wanted to marry someone Hindu and London has a huge Hindu population and because because Kim said her relatives she had relatives there When she would go to London at what some point one of the relatives was like, oh, we’ve seen this guy around this guy She ran.
Speaker 3 06:10
Mm -hmm seems like comes from a good family. Nice guy. Good -looking guy. Let’s make an introduction. Okay
Speaker 4 06:16
Annie is one of three children. Her and her family made their home in Sweden. Okay. Annie obtained an engineering degree like her dad, interestingly enough. Engineering. Yes. Yes. And following graduation, Annie had served at the multinational networking and telecommunication company Ericsson and was the head of global communications.
Speaker 4 06:42
Wow. Yeah. So she was bright. And I think for Annie, she was young, she was a college graduate and was now looking to seriously consider her future with a partner.
Speaker 1 06:56
Alright, so she’s an engineer and now she’s like looking to find a man right and she’s like Let me go to where the large Hindu population is to man shop
Speaker 3 07:07
Okay, let’s not call it man -shopping. Man -shopping? Oh my god. I think you just made up a new term. But she really wants to have a family. Right, she’s looking to start.
Speaker 4 07:22
She’s looking to start her life. She’s looking to- How old is she at this point? She’s 27. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 07:26
So the clock is a ticking. Right, right, right. And she’s not one.
Speaker 4 07:31
Well, she doesn’t want to press snooze. She wants to get right in there. So she did meet Shreem? Right, in London.
Speaker 1 07:38
And this was set up by friends, or this was a…
Speaker 4 07:41
It wasn’t set up in the traditional, I’m gonna set you up. It was more carried out in the way, like, oh, I think he might be nice. Let’s bring them in the same orbit. Right, okay. And let them get to know each other.
Speaker 4 07:54
Yeah, it was like a coffee date, actually. Right.
Speaker 3 07:56
just like see if they like each other right okay right and they we did they really liked each other they hit it off right how long
Speaker 1 08:02
Before they
Speaker 4 08:03
were married. You know, it really didn’t take long. I mean, I think it went rather quickly. Okay.
Speaker 3 08:09
It went quickly, but also because of how these families are, it’s very important that the parents bless the marriage. He flew her family, her parents, from London to meet his parents. Although her family is very successful in Sweden, his family is like, really, really, really wealthy.
Speaker 3 08:28
They have a whole healthcare business. It’s a huge, huge, huge … Does he work for that? He does. They live in the world of wealth. And so her parents were initially intimidated, but his parents were so welcoming and so kind and down to earth and showed them around London and everything, so they were super comfortable.
Speaker 3 08:47
They felt …
Speaker 1 08:48
He would ever meet a girl.
Speaker 3 08:51
I’m speculating they thought the family was great and so yeah
Speaker 4 08:55
connected immediately.
Speaker 3 08:57
got along. They get the blessing that day. That night, he flies her to Paris, to the Hotel Ritz, which is a very nice hotel. On a charter jet. Where a waiter delivers a silver platter upon which there is a single red rose, upon which there is balanced a $40 ,000 diamond ring.
Speaker 1 09:23
That’s not what we ordered. I wanted the chicken vindaloo.
Speaker 3 09:29
Chicken, I thought you said the chicken nuggets. Chicken vindaloo. Holy shit.
Speaker 1 09:35
That’s not the Rogan.
Speaker 3 09:37
It should have to be Videlude, just because they’re indians, they might have ordered nuggets.
Speaker 1 09:41
What adults order nuggets? What are you eating, dude?
Speaker 4 09:46
Well, this was on June 10th, 2010. So this is like a storybook thing. It’s really sweet. I love it. Shopping, had dinner at the Ritz Hotel.
Speaker 3 09:56
And they go along to this wedding at the end of October, the same year. They have, it’s a giant, you know, it’s a three day, it’s literally a three or four day wedding. This is a very traditional Hindu wedding, quarter of a million dollars almost on the wedding.
Speaker 3 10:09
It’s a huge affair. And then back to Kim, where we are, we’ve gone to Johannesburg. From Johannesburg, we went on safari at Chitwa Tripwalaj in Kruger. Then we flew into Cape Town.
Speaker 1 10:21
This isn’t one of those hunting safaris, right?
Speaker 3 10:24
Uh, no, it’s a, it’s a look at animals. It’s like look at animals. I want to root for them. Yeah. Yeah, no, no, no. I don’t want to root against these people. It’s a look at animals. Okay, good. In fact, as I looked it up, it’s only like, like 25 minutes from where, where I went on safari.
Speaker 3 10:38
Make it all about you. I am making it about me. So yes, now they’re in Cape Town. They met this cab driver, Tonga, right? And who they’ve decided to make their driver for the whole time they’re in Cape Town.
Speaker 3 10:50
Right. Exactly. Loving the murder. We’ve got more right after this quick word from our sponsor.
Speaker 5 10:57
The Hargan women seem to have it all.
Speaker 6 10:59
From the outside looking in, we were blessed. My mom was amazing.
Speaker 5 11:04
But as detectives would soon learn, there was a lot going on inside the Hargan household.
Speaker 6 11:09
Ashley and I have been calling my mom and the house and Helen, no one’s answering.
Speaker 5 11:15
63 -year -old Pamela Hargan gunned down in her own home. Her youngest daughter Helen lay dead upstairs.
Speaker 7 11:22
Patrol, when they arrived, assumed or thought that there might have been a murder -suicide.
Speaker 5 11:27
But for the detectives on the scene. There were things about the scene itself that were concerning to us on day one. Who would want to kill their mother and their little sister? There is no boogeyman here.
Speaker 5 11:39
It is exactly who we think it is. I’m Peter Vance, sat from 48 Hours. This is Blood is Thicker, the Hargen Family Killings. Listen to Blood is Thicker, the Hargen Family Killings, wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 6 11:58
Hello, this is Dr. Grande, the host of True Crime, Psychology, and Personality. On my podcast, I explore and explain the pathology behind some of the most horrendous crimes and those who commit them.
Speaker 6 12:10
We discuss topics like narcissism, psychopathy, sociopathy, and antisocial personality disorder from a scientifically informed perspective. What is a narcissist? How do you spot a sociopath? What science can you look for to protect yourself from these dangerous personalities?
Speaker 6 12:28
It’s not just about the stories, but also the science and psychology behind them. So, if you’re interested in true crime or mental health, I’d encourage you to give my show a listen wherever you get podcasts.
Speaker 1 12:43
All right, now back to Slaycation. So Kim, what happened?
Speaker 4 12:46
happens? Upon their arrival, they check into their hotel at the Cape Grace and enjoy dinner, drinks, and the following day is spent relaxing by the pool, sunbathing, all that good stuff. And then later, Shireen had reached out to Zola and asked if he would take them to dinner at a place called 96 Winery Road.
Speaker 4 13:18
And this is a restaurant located in the Helderberg Valley wine region, which is about 30 miles east of Cape Town.
Speaker 1 13:30
So they’re driving 30 miles to dinner? Yeah. Ooh. Zola’s like, I’m getting a tip.
Speaker 4 13:37
Well, you know, they want to be fancy, but while in route the couple decided that they wanted to dine somewhere More local fair. Yeah 30
Speaker 1 13:47
as long as that’s a yeah.
Speaker 4 13:48
Well, so the driver suggested a place called Surfside, a restaurant in the nearby resort town of Strand. Okay.
Speaker 3 13:59
much more downscale kind of chill place.
Speaker 4 14:02
Yes, much more.
Speaker 1 14:04
Did you meet there, Jerry?
Speaker 4 14:05
Much more salt, it’s much more salt of the earth. So at 1030, Tonga picks up the couple. After dinner you say? Right. Okay. And they get back on the highway heading back towards the hotel. And Annie suggested that they ride around, it was reported that she said that she wanted to experience the real Africa.
Speaker 4 14:32
She wanted to see where the real, like where real people live, not just the resort cozy little oasis. So Zola got off the highway and began to drive on the local roads and…
Speaker 1 14:48
I think I know what the takeaway is going to be, but I’m jumping in.
Speaker 4 14:53
ahead. Right. Yes. Slow down. And so Zola got off the highway and began to drive around the local roads to appease his passengers’ curiosity and take them on a long evening tour of the Gugaletu, which is a township in the western Cape, South Africa.
Speaker 3 15:16
Jerry, did you go there? So townships are these massive, you know, hundreds of thousands of people live in these, these very densely packed areas. These were created during apartheid when it was ruled that no one, no black people could live in the town centers.
Speaker 3 15:35
So everybody, which, you know, obviously is a huge percentage of South Africa. Right. And so these families were all forced at that time to move into these townships that were created and they lack sewer facilities.
Speaker 3 15:48
They mostly don’t have electricity. Pretty grimy. Everyone was given tiny air. Like it’s like this little couple of hundred square foot plot and most of the homes are just shacks. You know, it’s, it’s really the most densely populated areas of poverty you’ve ever seen.
Speaker 3 16:04
I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s incredible. Like when you see it, it’s just shocking and that it continues to exist. It’s kind of depressing. There is, so there is a, there’s a favela, favela, I think that’s how you say it.
Speaker 3 16:16
Like same thing in South Africa. There is a tourism industry that will take you into the townships, right. And take you on a tour. This particular township has a barbecue restaurant. That’s pretty famous.
Speaker 3 16:29
Like Jamie Oliver went to, but those are, those are things you do during the day in a very organized way with a very specific guide as well. You do not go into the township at night. That’s just like, like, unless you live there, like this is just, you don’t do it.
Speaker 1 16:49
or seem like they were going to do it.
Speaker 3 16:50
Yeah, I’ll tell you like we actually had to stop for gas near the township and it was during the day Yeah, because we were running out of gas. So not advised but we did it was during the day. It was fine But you know, you know it was not ideal But like definitely not a place you you you just know you’re like, it’s pretty clear.
Speaker 3 17:11
You’re not supposed to be going there right
Speaker 1 17:14
Right, there’s parts of Cleveland like that too.
Speaker 3 17:17
Though like that’s a point that that South Africa will say is like there’s parts of New York that are like that, you know Right. Absolutely. There’s parts of New York that you don’t want to write to it.
Speaker 3 17:26
There’s parts of everywhere. I Would think anyway, so point being this as a story was told she Decided that she wanted to see the real South Africa. The cab driver decides to take them into the township at midnight
Speaker 1 17:41
Mm, midnight. Right, right. Zola, come on, dude. Why are you doing this? They’re paying. Right, exactly. And I guess he’s not a friend. And again, he’s had to make it about me. But when we were in Johannesburg.
Speaker 3 17:55
Mm -hmm. So Johannesburg the whole city is like really dangerous, right? The point where we went to the apartheid museum and our cab driver who was South African said Do not go into Johannesburg and we’re like really like even if like we were to say to you Take us on a tour and he’s like I will get mugged if I go into Johannesburg.
Speaker 3 18:15
Wow He’s like I am black South African. I would have a problem like you guys can’t go there Cape Town is different Not the townships but Cape Town you can go out about and write the areas we were in were fine It’s not like this cab driver didn’t know like he knows
Speaker 4 18:32
Right, right. He did. He knows that’s interesting. Yes, like he knows
Speaker 3 18:36
This is a not good idea, right?
Speaker 4 18:40
Mm -hmm. So how soon funny you should ask as Zola Tonga slowed to turn back on that road. The car was suddenly siege and Overtaken with a man yelling and banging on the windshield
Speaker 1 18:55
He turned off the highway and immediately somebody jumped on the car pretty much
Speaker 3 18:59
pretty soon. Yeah. Well, you come off the highway. Right. This is my experience. You come off the highway and it’s just right there. Right there. Right. Right.
Speaker 1 19:07
And there’s just a guy standing there ready to jump on your hood. Pretty much.
Speaker 3 19:10
Not for us, but in this case at midnight. Yes. There was a guy. Holy shit a gun who started banging on the windshield with a
Speaker 1 19:17
Right and the woman started clapping. Oh the real Africa
Speaker 4 19:24
What is wrong with you?
Speaker 1 19:26
Wow. Right, what’s wrong with me? Wow. I’m the one doing it. I’m jumping on cars. You’re the problem. You’re the problem.
Speaker 3 19:33
be serious here and you are really making light.
Speaker 1 19:39
being serious. She’s gozzling cosmopolitan. You’re looking at your safari pictures. Okay.
Speaker 3 19:48
These things are all true. They are true.
Speaker 4 19:51
True, true, true, true. Sorry. Bunch of guys, they’re all over the car. Holy shit. One guy pushes his way in and he’s shoving the driver to the passenger’s seat while the other man got back and brandishing a gun at the couple.
Speaker 4 20:09
It was reported that they were both robbed of their jewelry and money and their jewelry totaling over $5 ,000. At some point, Tonga was forced out. The driver. The taxi driver. Oh boy.
Speaker 3 20:22
It’s two guys with guns and are right and
Speaker 4 20:24
Frightened couple. Oh my god, and now they’re driving away from Cape Town. Oh my god, and as they drove into the Kalisha Township coming off the highway at Barton Powell Drive It’s a little over 10 miles the carjackers forced Shrean out.
Speaker 4 20:44
Oh god. Now he’s standing there and watching Them drive off with his what his new bride. Yeah And all he can do is just stand there horrified of course So he orients himself and goes to get help he starts knocking on the doors of the local residences in the quiet of the night and He gets the attention of a gentleman Police were summoned and they drove Shrean back to the hotel They were staying at the Cape Grace.
Speaker 4 21:19
Mm -hmm the search for his missing wife and the perpetrators and that minivan Commence so Sola Tonga is also brought back to the hotel Shrean contacts his family He reaches out to his father and he asks his father if his father would reach out to Annie’s parents later Shrean would call his father -in -law and in tears, of course and just sort of recounting very briefly the Kidnapping Annie’s father Vinod and Shrean’s father Prakash connected and made plans to travel to South Africa together And when Vinod landed in Amsterdam to catch his connecting flight to South Africa he had checked in with his family because he hadn’t talked to them and It was at that time that he had found out that they had found Annie.
Speaker 4 22:12
Oh, no, and that Annie was deceased
Speaker 1 22:18
Where do they find her, just like on the road or something, or in a house?
Speaker 4 22:21
Earlier that day, in Lita Park Township, a resident had noticed a gray Volkswagen minivan parked next to an empty field. It was parked and abandoned, and they noticed in the vehicle, they noticed a body.
Speaker 4 22:37
So police were contacted, they arrived, and they had noted that blood had actually seeped out the rear right -hand door of the minivan and pulled below. And Annie lay in the backseat soaked in blood.
Speaker 4 22:52
And she had been shot point blank range, once in the neck, from a 9 -millimeter pistol. The bullet nicked her hand, went through her neck, and exited her body and into the seat. And post -mortem examinations concluded that Annie died from gunshot wound, which severed an artery in her neck, and she bled out.
Speaker 4 23:22
And there was no evidence of sexual assault.
Speaker 1 23:33
So the cops, why do they have to kill her? Well.
Speaker 3 23:37
You robbed them? Right, that’s the question, right? What the fuck? What’s the motive? If there’s no sexual assault, why wouldn’t you kill them?
Speaker 1 23:44
Unless she was fighting back or something and they just well, you know I mean it feels like they were going to sexually assault if they separate them and they take her that seems like what is gonna happen, right?
Speaker 3 23:53
But the police report there’s no no signs of sexual. Right.
Speaker 4 23:57
Right. And to your point, Jerry, earlier, when the investigation had begun and the police began talking to the locals in that area, many of the other cab drivers had expressed real surprise and were curious.
Speaker 4 24:14
Like, why would he do that? Why would you drive them? He was all the tongue. Yes.
Speaker 1 24:20
knowing what you know right about this area why would you like it
Speaker 3 24:23
almost guaranteed recipe for disaster exactly exactly
Speaker 4 24:27
And there was a lot of murmurings. Yeah.
Speaker 3 24:30
What’s what what what was going on was there more to the story? Yeah, I’m I was murmuring. Yeah
Speaker 1 24:37
My head.
Speaker 3 24:38
Well, so the police do their police work and they find a fingerprint, a bloody fingerprint in the van, and they run it through their system and they get a match right away. Right. Or the equivalent to our CODIS.
Speaker 3 24:51
Yes. So they find this guy and their system, his name, I’m going to just call him Mr. X because I don’t know how to say his name. Right. No, I know him. It’s like Zolele or something. Right. So Mr. X is in their system because he had been arrested five years prior in 2005.
Speaker 3 25:09
Charged with killing a man in a bar fight, but the charges had been dropped, but he was in the system because he’d been charged.
Speaker 1 25:17
At least there’s police there. I mean, yeah, you’d think it’s like lawless but
Speaker 3 25:22
No, no, there’s, there’s police. I mean, it’s the country’s, South Africa is a little bit of a mess in some ways, but they do have functioning government and police. Right, yes. So they are like, all right, let’s find this guy, Mr.
Speaker 3 25:36
Speaker 3 25:49
They also find a cell phone that he has like wedged under his mattress. And they’re like, what is this phone? And he says the phone belongs to-
Speaker 7 26:00
Zola Tunga!
Speaker 8 26:03
Yeah, cab driver
Speaker 1 26:04
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Wait, so there’s a Zolotonga cell phone wedged under the mattress of Mr. X’s bed. Mm -hmm. Right. Okay. Yeah. Weird.
Speaker 3 26:16
Yeah, OK. Meanwhile, it’s now the 15th of the month. It’s Monday. It’s a couple of days after this disastrous attack. Right. And little weird things start to happen. So Vinod, who is the father of the father of Annie, the deceased, who is close to Shrien, you know, the husband’s family, is asked to go identify the body in the morgue.
Speaker 3 26:46
Speaker 3 26:59
But right. Of course, she’s not. She’s just an identification. Right. Right.
Speaker 1 27:03
weird thing to say. Why, why would not Shrien be invited to?
Speaker 3 27:07
Oh, he had seen he had not gone yet Okay, so Vinod was asked to come and he said to Sri and come with me to the morgue right Sri and said I don’t think you should go because the body is not prepared or whatever which is a very strange thing to say sure But then we’re not so we’ll just come with me and Sri and says I can’t right.
Speaker 3 27:24
I can’t do it Right, and so Vinod is like I understand you you can’t bear the shirt or the pain of seeing that But when it comes to come to find out is that what he actually went to do instead of going to the morgue?
Speaker 3 27:35
Is he went? Suit shopping for a new suit and got a haircut right Shrin Shrin, right? So when he’s had to freshen up when he said I can’t her dad took it to mean Emotionally destroy, but he actually was like I have plans
Speaker 1 27:51
You gotta be at the men’s warehouse.
Speaker 3 27:56
So yeah
Speaker 1 28:01
The next day. That is weird. So does Vinod go? Yes. Vinod goes. He does go. And it’s horrible. He identifies. I thought it was going to be like some weird twist. Like it’s not her or something. No, no, it’s her.
Speaker 1 28:11
It’s her. It’s her. It’s her.
Speaker 3 28:13
Wishful thinking the next day. Mr. X, you know has now been arrested right at least
Speaker 4 28:18
and he named somebody else.
Speaker 3 28:20
He does. Zolotanga? Oh, he not only names, first of all he confesses. Well, exactly. That’s right. First of all, he confesses to the whole thing. But he doesn’t-
Speaker 4 28:29
But he confesses to.
Speaker 3 28:30
being there. So being there, not the murder. Right. He says, I was there. Right. He says… I got picked up in the cab. Well, no. He’s confessing to a robbery, basically. He’s like, this is a robbery.
Speaker 3 28:42
And the elite police force in Cape Town is called the Hawks. Okay. Okay. And there’s a detective named Detective Hendrix who runs the Hawks. So the Hawks go looking for this other guy he names. Kwabi.
Speaker 3 28:58
Kwabi. Kwabi.
Speaker 4 28:59
My best name is Kwabe. I was going to make a thumb.
Speaker 1 29:01
Nick Wilkins joke for our basketball loving because he was on the Hawks anyway sorry
Speaker 3 29:06
Mr. X, our first guy who gets arrested names a second guy, Mr. Kwabe, who they find immediately. Right. No problem. No problem. This guy also confesses and says, I was there for the robbery, but… Says the other guy.
Speaker 3 29:18
The other guy did. So now we got two guys… Says Mr. X. Oh, they’re pointing at each other. Pointing at each other, saying they did the murder. Right. So Detective Hendricks also immediately has some questions for the cab driver and for the newlyweds.
Speaker 3 29:33
So one of the things Detective Hendricks asks is, these are very rich people coming from London. The husband, Sri ‘en, is a millionaire. You know, he’s not even 30. Right. I think he’s a millionaire, has all this money.
Speaker 3 29:49
He’s typically, almost always, people like this, when they come to the airport, will get picked up by the hotel shuttle. Right. Because they’re staying in a very fancy hotel. Right. And the hotel will always say, we’ll pick you up, get you safely.
Speaker 3 30:02
Right. So his question is… Why… Why were they in a cab? Right. Why did they get a cab? Because that’s weird to him. It doesn’t mean anything, but it’s a little bit of a… It doesn’t line up with how people use it.
Speaker 3 30:14
It’s a pig flag.
Speaker 4 30:16
You know, just.
Speaker 1 30:17
Pink flag. I gotcha. Oh, and this whole, this whole, she wants to see the real Africa, that only came out from their story, because she’s dead. She’s dead. Right. So this is the telling of Shri.
Speaker 3 30:30
And then and then the bigger question is he says I don’t care how much people say I want to go to a township No cab driver would ever do that like so why did this guy do that Wow?
Speaker 1 30:44
you don’t care he’s Travis Bickle go anywhere at any time of night so it’s like one day a real name
Speaker 3 30:56
So the families fly back to the UK with her remains and now two days later they arrest Zolotango because now they’re like, this just all isn’t adding up. None of it makes sense. Well, it is adding up in my head.
Speaker 1 31:13
Uh -huh. I’m seeing something. Where do you see it? What do you say? I’m not gonna say it because I want you to unfold this story But I will say yes or no if I’m right so now
Speaker 3 31:21
So we’re, and jump in, Kim, if I’m jumping around too much here, but we’re a week on from the murder, the Hindoches, her family, and the Duwannas, his family, are all back in the UK, and they have a crisis meeting, because at this point, rumors are circulating that what, Adam?
Speaker 1 31:45
That it was a set up by who? Shrin and Zolotanga.
Speaker 3 31:50
to get rid of her yes so the rumors are swirling this is happening and her grandmother Annie’s grandmother has already said to Vinod her son Annie’s dad she’s like this guy is Sri and story don’t add up mm -hmm like it doesn’t make sense
Speaker 1 32:06
What is Zola Tonga saying is he is he he’s keeping quiet? Well, he’s saying he’s
Speaker 4 32:12
innocent. I got attacked too. Right.
Speaker 1 32:15
this time right he’s saying he was attacked but is he locked up no no they’re just not if they picked him up they you know that he was around
Speaker 3 32:23
in question, and then release it. So meanwhile, they have the funeral.
Speaker 4 32:28
Which is apparently Shrean behaved very badly really bad. What do you mean?
Speaker 3 32:33
Well, Annie was really close to her sister, Amy.
Speaker 4 32:36
Yes, and her cousin. You said her cousin was her best friend. Right.
Speaker 1 32:41
Yeah, you didn’t let them come or something
Speaker 4 32:43
What what happened was in Hindu custom it is customary that the women of the family Dress the female decedent Annie’s older sister Amy and her close friend and cousin Sheena planned to dress Annie’s body as Hindu custom dictates Amy arrived and had begun the process with her cousin to dress Annie’s body and they when they had arrived they were met by Shri and his mother and aunt and this was unusual and not compliant with Hindu customs because it’s the women right that that but he wants to be part of it,
Speaker 4 33:27
right? Okay, right, and he’s there and he’s literally throwing a temper tantrum. And the reason is unclear. Like why is he Right
Speaker 3 33:37
And he didn’t let Amy speak at the funeral which was her sister sister Yeah, he refused to let her speak right. He also had a again like he was being a dick He was just being a jerk and like the thing is we know from past cases and other projects We’ve done, you know, just because someone doesn’t act like you think they show act Doesn’t mean they’re guilty of anything right you can be a dick and be in and by his wife just got murdered,
Speaker 3 34:04
right?
Speaker 1 34:05
And the way it all went down, like if it was like, look, if he has nothing to do with it, you go on this thing, you drive off the highway, you get attacked, your wife is driven off and killed, like you can cut the guy some slack if he’s acting crazy.
Speaker 1 34:18
Absolutely. And that’s what
Speaker 3 34:18
So when I’m reading this like yeah, and actually that is how I read this is like he is his whole world has just been Stabilized down. He’s been married for less than a month, right? And there’s a murder in a horrible horrible murder of his new wife, right?
Speaker 3 34:32
And now he’s thrust into this whole situation. So I kind of you can extend all the slack
Speaker 4 34:38
You can extend grace in such a volatile situation, but he did. There was another incident where there was about 150 mourners that had arrived and come to say goodbye to Annie, and her relatives had come with letters in hand to place in her coffin.
Speaker 4 34:57
And at one point during the farewell, Shrin begins to loudly argue with Annie’s family. It got so bad that his own brother had to escort him away so that he could compose himself. And it was noted that the letters that were placed in Annie’s coffin were removed and scattered all over the floor.
Speaker 3 35:23
Now, Vinod, her father, also notes a few other things that really upset him. First, Sriyen, the night before the funeral, has a pizza party for his friends, and invites everyone over for pizza.
Speaker 4 35:37
as sort of like a celebration of life for Annie. And while that’s suitable for, say, my husband, Adam, Vinod was not…
Speaker 3 35:46
The land is very wrong with the traditional Hindu family.
Speaker 1 35:49
Well, it’s also bad when you call it a pizza party. Well, I’m calling it a pizza party. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3 35:52
Like it’s.
Speaker 4 35:53
But it was. It was a pizza party. That’s how I read it. Yeah. And that’s the way it was described. It said pizza party.
Speaker 3 36:00
Maybe that’s just he’s like, I just need some time with my friends and whatever. Right. But the other thing that pisses Vinod off is because the Shrians family is this very wealthy family. It’s very heavily involved in health care, which me in in the UK, which means they’re also involved with politics and finance and all of that.
Speaker 3 36:19
Very well, very well connected. And they realize this is a crisis, right? Especially with the rumors swirling around Shrienn and potentially being involved. So they hire this guy, Max Clifford, who’s a PR guy.
Speaker 3 36:31
That’s right. He are PR guy, the week of the funeral. They hire this PR guy who’s a crisis guy. He’s the guy you hire if you’re having a politician who’s caught having an affair or OJ Simpson, like an OJ Simpson.
Speaker 3 36:42
Wait, who hires the Shrienn family? Oh, OK. All right. So they hire this guy and then they go to Vinod, the head of Annie’s family, the deceased, and say, we need you to sign this agreement that no one from your family will speak to the press without consulting with Clifford first.
Speaker 3 36:59
Speaker 1 37:04
This is like the guilty checkbook, the guilty checklist.
Speaker 3 37:08
you know it’s not necessarily right it’s also it can also get a family a wealthy connected well that’s right you don’t
Speaker 1 37:15
need rumors swirling around saying that your son is somehow involved in his.
Speaker 3 37:19
Yeah, I’m not gonna say I you could look at his guilt checklist or you could look at it It’s like this is the family the wagons right feels weird. It’s like
Speaker 4 37:26
And it feels like Annie’s getting lost in this.
Speaker 1 37:30
feels like a lot of unnecessary attention and weirdness that is swirling that is not helping the situation.
Speaker 3 37:40
Right, right, but this is a rare, like this, you know, for as much as Cape Town might have a reputation for being a violent place. Johannesburg. Well, Cape Town also.
Speaker 4 37:50
They they first stop was Johannesburg. Johannesburg is very. Oh, I’m sorry. Johannesburg is so- They had to move there.
Speaker 3 37:55
super violent, but this murder is in Cape Town.
Speaker 1 37:57
But to Cape Town, but it was in the township of Cape Town. Like you stay in the middle of Cape Town, you’re fine, you go and-
Speaker 3 38:02
Cape Town if you just look overall Cape Town does have a lot of violent crime right going on the townships there’s muggings that’s way
Speaker 4 38:08
There’s the resorts and then sort of the places that you go and the places that you got
Speaker 3 38:13
But even against that backdrop, the murder of a newlywed, beautiful Indian woman from Europe, this does not happen every day in Cape Town. This is a very big deal. So everyone’s talking about it. Then…
Speaker 3 38:29
When you say everyone, you mean like…
Speaker 1 38:31
Let’s just write the international right international right right and this
Speaker 4 38:34
is a media frenzy.
Speaker 3 38:36
The papers here. There’s some stuff about it here. Okay. Yeah We’re Europe and more. Okay. Yeah, so Max Clifford Aranges this interview with the Sun like a couple of days after her funeral. You mean Shriyan?
Speaker 3 38:49
Yeah, Max Clifford the PR guy arranges right an interview with Shriyan with this. Oh the Sun the Sun is the name of the newspaper Oh Okay, okay, okay
Speaker 1 39:08
I see. Sorry.
Speaker 3 39:09
And so in this interview, um, he says a bunch of things were now Vinod, her dad is like, wait, what? Like, because first triad had said it was Annie’s idea to go see the real Africa, right? To go to the township.
Speaker 3 39:25
But in this interview, he says it was the cab driver Tonga’s idea to take us there to see African dancing, right?
Speaker 4 39:34
Okay, so there’s these little inconsistencies
Speaker 7 39:38
Bubbling to the surface
Speaker 3 39:41
And he had told the cops, right, he’d been pushed out the door, but then in the interview he says the child locks were on and he was pushed out the window.
Speaker 4 39:49
sort of conflicting. There was even one where he said that he went out the passenger window. It was- Oh, but-
Speaker 3 39:59
Then like nobody at any point including him had any evidence of any injuries or rips on his nose right now
Speaker 4 40:06
No, as one would think, if you were. If one was pushed out of a moving vehicle.
Speaker 1 40:11
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. So that’s weird. Yeah, or is it gonna take a break? Good idea. We’ll be right back with more
Speaker 8 40:21
Hi, I’m Matt Harris. Seton Tucker and I post the podcast Impact of Influence, which for two years covered in depth, Alec Murdoch, who was eventually convicted in 2023 of murdering his wife Maggie and son Paul.
Speaker 8 40:34
That story continues to evolve and we will cover that. Plus, we will tell you stories of other true crime events that have happened in the South. Please join us on Impact of Influence and give us a follow on the Impact of Influence Facebook page.
Speaker 1 40:54
All right, we’re back. This story is starting to heat up.
Speaker 4 40:59
Yeah, yeah, so we’re worried.
Speaker 3 41:03
We’re at the point where Annie Diwani was murdered on her honeymoon in Cape Town in a carjacking in a township. Her husband is back with her family and his family in London. The funerals happen. Right.
Speaker 4 41:16
This family is doing damage control.
Speaker 3 41:17
Yeah, his family’s trying to demonstrate because there’s rumors that he may have been involved. Three people have been picked up in Cape Town as suspects to have confessed when the cab driver says he was just driving the cab.
Speaker 3 41:28
Now we are at December 7th, Kim, with the first court appearance by the cab driver, Tonga.
Speaker 4 41:37
Right, right. So he appears in court.
Speaker 1 41:42
Well, what is he being charged with? Accessory to murder or something?
Speaker 4 41:45
Well, he was he was named the other suspects had named him as as being as part of
Speaker 1 41:53
like that
Speaker 3 41:54
They said he arranged with us, told us that he was gonna bring this couple. Gotcha.
Speaker 1 42:00
super rich couple coming your way right hot off the presses good marks basically
Speaker 4 42:04
And then he started to say that he was approached by Shrian and that Shrian had asked him if he knew of anybody that could take care of a problem and get rid of his wife.
Speaker 1 42:25
Should yeah in the airport or like earlier. He said you guys need a ride. He said you but I also know something else
Speaker 3 42:35
Tonga says this happened after he took them from the airport to the hotel right and that while She was doing something that during this like brief interlude Sri and says hey by the way Can you drive us around and also can you arrange somebody to kill my wife right right?
Speaker 3 42:52
I’ll throw in a little extra tip right Tonga says he told Sri and it would be certain amount of money few thousand Dollars, and he would arrange the killings
Speaker 1 43:02
Didn’t balk at it at all. Didn’t say, eh, that’s not what I usually do.
Speaker 3 43:08
according to what he said in court.
Speaker 4 43:10
should. So Zola Tonga had reportedly reached out to a man named Munday and had asked him if he knew anybody and this gentleman said, yes, why, yes, I do. Right. Who doesn’t? Exactly. Exactly. And this is the gentleman, Munday was the gentleman, that he had connected Kwabe and Mr.
Speaker 4 43:41
Speaker 1 43:56
It’s like it takes a lot of people to do this, right?
Speaker 3 44:00
You know look I there’s a question in my mind as we’re going holy cow
Speaker 4 44:04
with what and with these with names and names i know
Speaker 3 44:07
But I was always reading through this and listening to what this guy said in court. I’m like, really? So this rich guy from India just asks, just risks asking a random cab driver. All right. That’s what I’m saying.
Speaker 3 44:18
Like, can you find someone to kill my wife? Like, it just seems so risky and crazy.
Speaker 4 44:23
But on the other hand, these people that have all this money, you gotta wonder if they just think, like, everybody needs money. I can get anybody to do what I want because I have this money. Like, there’s this.
Speaker 3 44:39
I mean, there is a certain- Right.
Speaker 4 44:42
There’s a certain entitlement with people that have this amount of wealth.
Speaker 3 44:46
There’s an interesting detail that came up in Tonga’s court hearing, right? Remember he says that he was texting with Shriyen. So the cab driver says he was texting with Shriyen during the ride, reminding him, make sure you leave the money for the killing in the glove box to just make sure, make sure the money’s there because he’s got to divvy up the money.
Speaker 1 45:09
picturing out so right he knows he’s gonna kick him out of the car
Speaker 3 45:13
So, uh, so following this, like, bombshell court hearing in December, Shrien, back in the UK, is arrested. On suspicion of conspiring to murder his wife.
Speaker 1 45:28
Right. Do they check any of these phones, or what about that phone that was in the mattress and all that, was there any messages, or?
Speaker 3 45:33
So they do, but not until much later, okay, so
Speaker 4 45:38
And you got to remember too, like this is the early 2000s, the footprint that it leaves today. Gotcha. Gotcha. I mean, it’s not to say that they were able to gain some evidence. No, I see what you’re saying though.
Speaker 1 45:53
early days of cell phone technology and stuff. OK. They’re still texting, though.
Speaker 3 45:59
Yes. All right. So he appears in court in London, and then he is remanded into custody of his family to stay at their estate while the South African authorities- Try to extradite him back, yeah. And that would go on forever.
Speaker 3 46:17
And this is December, right? And so, and the big question keeps coming, there’s no sexual assault on her, so what was the motive? And so the only motive, it just seems to really point at him. We’re gone.
Speaker 3 46:29
Yeah.
Speaker 1 46:30
Or the gun just went off like in Pulp Fiction.
Speaker 3 46:33
December nothing while he is We’re just gonna keep going we’ve still been to cover you right all right Do you want to introduce the character who shows up at Scotland Yard Kim or do you want me to?
Speaker 4 46:45
I don’t know, it’s just so delicious. I just wish we could do it together. I know, I know. It’s so good.
Speaker 3 46:50
It’s so good.
Speaker 4 46:51
Ah, all right, so i’m gonna just say the german master shows up the german master
Speaker 3 46:59
This is the German master, the German master who looks like a Tama Finland painting with a cigar, a hat, a leather jacket.
Speaker 1 47:08
Yeah, he also looks like he was at the blue oyster bar in police academy. That is exactly right. That is correct.
Speaker 3 47:14
He is a S &M prostitute, hire for hire, who works in Germany mostly. His name is the German master.
Speaker 4 47:27
okay and guess who’s
Speaker 1 47:28
Client a client of the German master. Yeah. Oh boy
Speaker 3 47:40
I didn’t see that part coming. Nobody did. When I got to this part of the research, I was texting Kim. I’m like, are you fucking kidding me? The German master? Like this, he just shows up. Where did he come from?
Speaker 3 47:49
He shows up in Scotland Yard. That’s exactly right. He goes to Scotland Yard and he says, look, I know I’m risking my own kind of life and anonymity and everything that I do, but I have to come here and tell her because I’ve been seeing this case.
Speaker 3 48:03
And I hear this guy saying all this stuff about his wife and this and that. And I need to tell you guys, Scotland Yard, he’s a client of mine. In the months leading up to the wedding, he hired me three times to humiliate him and all this stuff.
Speaker 3 48:19
And like the checklist he gives them, let me see if I can find this because it’s pretty incredible.
Speaker 1 48:25
Why are you going to hire somebody to humiliate you? You’re getting married. Oh, what?
Speaker 3 48:35
He specifically gives the German master a checklist. He says, I want to do bondage. I want to do boot licking, spanking, and dog training, not the kind of dog training you’re thinking of training actual dogs.
Speaker 3 48:48
He texts him and says, I’m more of a submissive than a slave, and I like to be used at group parties. And I want to lick sir’s boots top and under, I guess he means underwear, right?
Speaker 1 49:01
undercarriage. Ssssss. Oh.
Speaker 3 49:05
I’m just saying, I don’t know.
Speaker 1 49:08
Whatever. You can check my phone.
Speaker 3 49:13
Uh, you’re Italian master. So German master says, and even says to the scholanyard, he’s like, look, I know I’m not the most credible, like I’m a guy, uh, S &M guy for hire. So, but I’m just, I just want to share this information with you.
Speaker 3 49:29
And they agree that he’s not super credible, but they’re like, he’s got some evidence that Sri and
Speaker 4 49:35
How do you pay for that? Fourteen hundred dollars.
Speaker 1 49:39
card.
Speaker 3 49:41
I don’t know. I don’t know. I’m just saying.
Speaker 1 49:42
Like I wonder if there’s any kind of paper trail. Yeah, well the guy
Speaker 3 49:44
I had messages from Srianne. But then, right after that, because that obviously becomes news that the German master has shown up at Scotland Yard. So shortly thereafter, a much more credible witness shows up.
Speaker 3 49:58
A 53 -year -old political aide who works in London, like in politics, shows up and tells Scotland Yard. He has also had S &M encounters with Srianne at a London club called The Hoist. The Hoist. The blue oyster bar, AKA The Hoist.
Speaker 3 50:17
And so now, the theory emerges that Srianne, because he likes men, but he’s Hindu, that he didn’t want this secret to come out. And he would rather get married, murder his new wife. It seems, again, to me, this is like a little nuts.
Speaker 3 50:36
But that’s the theory. But this causes people to start bringing up stuff from the past, such as Amy, Annie’s sister, recalls that leading up to the wedding, Annie had wanted to call it off, saying that Srianne was being too controlling and crazy.
Speaker 4 50:53
and was just not happy, would complain about her. He considered her messy.
Speaker 3 50:59
And then it also comes out that and some of her family had known this that he had prior been engaged Right for several months to someone else and broke it off right and so then the theory became that she maybe Annie was unhappy and Was going to want to not be with him right and that Plus a broken off engagement from another woman would taint him and the family and so this was his way of trying to get out Right.
Speaker 3 51:27
What’d you think of all that Kim?
Speaker 4 51:29
You know, it was really hard to, it was so much to decipher, you know, because on one hand you wondered, all right, so maybe he’s in this situation and he’s obviously not an out gay man or even an out bisexual man living authentically who he is.
Speaker 4 51:51
And it would seem that getting married, having Annie as this beard, move forward, live life, was maybe something that he was like, oh my God, I can’t do that, I can’t do that, that’s crazy. But what is he gonna do?
Speaker 4 52:07
Is he gonna go say to his parents, so here’s the thing. I am bisexual. I could very well imagine someone being in a world where they can’t do that.
Speaker 3 52:22
can’t deal with living the right life.
Speaker 4 52:24
Right. Right. And can’t deal with the pushback of having to address the response from the family if he were to step back and say, I’m not going to get married. Right. You know, the whole
Speaker 3 52:38
idea of the marriage is you know you’re gonna have this family you’re gonna have kids that you raised right part of the Hindu you know religion and the family and so like the idea that he would have murdered his his wife it’s just sort of I don’t know it sort of cuts off all possibilities in a way I don’t know how to put it it just seems it didn’t seem it didn’t hit me as totally plausible or implausible
Speaker 4 53:03
right and that’s that was exactly my response it was pure ambivalence yeah
Speaker 3 53:10
That’s how I felt.
Speaker 4 53:11
It was pure, one minute I’d be like, yeah, he did that shit. And then the next minute I’m like, no, no, no, it was really, and it was really hard to read the material and connect to it in a way where I could say, where I could connect to the guilt or the innocence, because in many of our other cases, it felt so much easier.
Speaker 3 53:35
The fact that there was no sexual assault you’re like so why would they kill her and why would they have forced him out? And right forced him out, but he doesn’t have any right. He’s fine. He goes to the host
Speaker 4 53:45
He goes back to you know
Speaker 3 53:48
It’s like every time you think you’ve got a handle on this story, it sends you the other way.
Speaker 1 53:53
Well, I mean, I’m just sitting here listening to this and it sounds like a guy who had to get rid of his wife.
Speaker 2 54:02
Yeah!
Speaker 1 54:03
I mean for crazy reasons. I mean this is like but like just don’t get married
Speaker 3 54:07
Right like this thing like why would you go through at the wedding if you’re gonna get your wife
Speaker 1 54:13
murdered but like you said maybe he did it to try to have this beard and try to cover up this I mean it was trying to keep secret and then he realized he couldn’t do it
Speaker 4 54:23
I mean, and maybe it was just easier to be this newlywed whose wife was tragically murdered. Oh, well. Right. And then he can-
Speaker 1 54:33
go back to. And you can live the rest of your life, like I, you know, I’m too traumatized from that to ever get married. Right, right, right.
Speaker 4 54:40
right. Well, that’s
Speaker 3 54:41
True, too.
Speaker 1 54:43
He is you know that Hitchcock wasn’t alive to do a movie on this is incredible right would have been yeah, right up his alley But holy moly okay, so what?
Speaker 3 54:52
It’s not over yet. No, no, no. So so at this point, it’s the end of 2010. They’re trying to extradite him. He is hanging out at his family’s estate. Right.
Speaker 4 55:01
and the other men have sort of pointed the finger at each other right all the men except for one the south africans yes they had cop deals yeah um two of them cop deals
Speaker 3 55:17
Meaning they they agreed they let it they pled out they right they they took reduced sentences in exchange for Full cooperation and making the case against Sri Ann right right and then he didn’t pull the trigger though one of them No, he definitely did not but they really are it’s very important to the South African authorities That these they want to get that Sri Ann is Complicit in this the reason it’s important for them to make sure that Sri Ann is complicit is that if Sri Ann is complicit Then this is not a bad tourist murder in Cape Town,
Speaker 3 55:50
right? I mean, it’s very just a you could say it’s politically motivated anywhere, right? It’s a guy who hired people to kill his is what is a slight distinction slight But that is actually what’s motivating right the South Africans
Speaker 1 56:05
And we’re not just murderers, we’re murderers for hire.
Speaker 3 56:08
Well, right, but their point is it’s not like the idea that like two people could just randomly end up in this is much worse than saying
Speaker 4 56:17
if not for.
Speaker 3 56:18
Sriyen right this wouldn’t happen interesting right they’re quite transparent about this right no no I’m sure the point where they’ve even the deals they’ve given the guys uh -huh the reduced sentences are contingent on them Naming right Sriyen right and testifying as it does not make them super reliable credible, right?
Speaker 4 56:38
Exactly. Yeah. And the one guy who took his chances and went to court was found guilty. Which guy is that? Mr. X? Mr. X. Okay. Was found guilty. He was found, he was found guilty. Mm -hmm. Yes, yes. He was incarcerated.
Speaker 4 56:54
That’s the bloody thing you’re thinking of. He got the longest, he got the longest sentence because he didn’t plead. And then Monday, the guy who connected Zola Tonga to the killers, he got full immunity.
Speaker 4 57:09
So he didn’t do any jail time. Right. Was he even there? No, he wasn’t. And that’s why they didn’t arrest him. And what about that second guy? He took a deal. He took a deal.
Speaker 1 57:23
Yeah, so he got off. Yeah. Well, he got a reduce reduce
Speaker 3 57:26
Okay, but okay. All right. So then there’s this guy named Dan Newling who guys a journalist, right? Okay Oh, I see and he had happened to Talk to Sri and like within days of the murder and really took Sri and to be a distraught Recent widower.
Speaker 3 57:42
He just was like he did say that. Yeah, he actually
Speaker 4 57:45
wrote a book on this case called Bitter Dawn, in search for the truth about the murder of Annie DeWaney.
Speaker 3 57:53
Dan is haunted by this case. And so in February of 2011, he has a couple of questions he wants answers to. The first question is, how the hell was this hit on her arranged in less than 24 hours? Yeah.
Speaker 3 58:07
Right. Just in his mind, he’s like, that seems really fast. He brings that up and some reporters from the West Cape News, which is a local South African paper, agree that it seems quite unlikely. They’re not saying it’s impossible to arrange a hit.
Speaker 3 58:20
It’s just too fast. Right. So these West Cape News reporters actually go undercover to arrange a hit to see how long it’ll take. And they find guys, they find three guys willing to do it. But they’re like, this will take at minimum days, possibly weeks to work out.
Speaker 3 58:36
So that’s concerning that. Right.
Speaker 4 58:39
It was a matter of mere hours, it felt.
Speaker 1 58:42
Oh, I thought you meant it’s concern that they found guys willing to do it.
Speaker 3 58:46
That should be concerned, yeah, but but so then his next question
Speaker 1 58:51
You guys can’t work any faster? I really need this done quickly.
Speaker 3 58:54
No, yeah, like I need this is what can I pay for a rush, right? Expedited you have like assassination prime So Okay, so then his next question is why would this guy Tongo the cab driver who has no criminal record at all Right and whose fees for this killing whatever is a couple thousand bucks.
Speaker 3 59:16
Yeah are less basically less than a month salary So he’s like this is his cab. It was everything right? He’s like why would this guy for less than a month’s pay agree to participate in this? That’s very strange.
Speaker 3 59:28
Mm -hmm, but then you come up against the thing of like well, but there’s no sexual assault So why were they separated? Why would she kill right, right?
Speaker 1 59:35
So he I mean you could say that they killed her because I mean look the sexual assault obviously you think that they’re going to But if it’s more trouble than it’s worth and they can’t or whatever she’s fighting too hard.
Speaker 1 59:46
She’s right You could see like oh fuck it kill her and get rid of her. I mean, they certainly didn’t try to hide
Speaker 3 59:52
Yeah, but the thing is you’ve already let him go and he’s seen you so like why would you kill her right? It doesn’t make sense. Well
Speaker 1 01:00:00
I mean I could make sense of it, but that’s you know I’m just saying like you have a problem you have a person in the car right you’re gonna Let her go too like but yeah, it is weird that they let him go they let the cabbie go and They took her and then Just killed her and left her in a cab like didn’t try to I mean you could bury that body like you You know make it nobody finds her right and they didn’t they didn’t make any effort to do any of that so yeah It does feel very fucked up.
Speaker 1 01:00:30
Okay. Sorry I interrupted go
Speaker 3 01:00:32
So Newling is like, I’m just going to go. This guy just takes it into his own hands. He drives into the township during the day. And he goes to exactly where the van was found. He starts knocking on doors.
Speaker 3 01:00:46
Pretty quickly, he finds someone who answers the door and says, oh, yeah, I was here the day that happened. And I actually think she says my brother said, oh, my gosh, you have to come outside. They found a body in this van.
Speaker 3 01:00:58
And she came out. She says, yeah, I came outside and I saw it. And I saw this woman in the van with her dress pulled up and her legs apart and her underwear pulled down. And he said, so do you think that she was sexually assaulted?
Speaker 3 01:01:13
And the woman says, I can’t say for sure, but it certainly looked like that’s what had happened.
Speaker 1 01:01:19
but it could also have been staged. Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:01:21
Well, yes, but then sorry. So the police have been saying all along, right, that this was not sexual assault. It was a murder for hire, right? All this stuff like there’s no problem in South Africa, right?
Speaker 3 01:01:35
So then he goes and he pulls the pathology report. And in the pathology report, it actually says, despite the pathology report saying on top, like no evidence of sexual assault, it actually says that there’s contusions on the legs, on her legs, which is potentially indicative of assault.
Speaker 3 01:01:55
So now, Newling is like, okay, this is… Are they covering up a sexual assault?
Speaker 1 01:02:00
Yeah, okay
Speaker 3 01:02:02
and then like the next week right was it the next week that the lawyers for the guys are talking about how their confessions were obtained yes like it was like torture yes it was a big issue
Speaker 4 01:02:15
surrounding these guys who confessed right and that was forced yeah and coarse
Speaker 3 01:02:22
Turns out they were beaten, suffocated, until signing these pre -written statements about what they did and Sri An’s involvement, and it was all coerced under torture.
Speaker 4 01:02:38
Oh. The South African government really, really was trying to get Shrien extradited so that he would stand and face the charges for the death of his wife.
Speaker 1 01:02:52
Oh cuz you can make a case you could take Sri and totally out of it and Zola Tonga, right took them there Knowing that they would get attacked or whatever
Speaker 4 01:03:01
Right, no, but you know, that’s the thing too, because given the press coverage that this case was receiving, like it was kind of a situation where it was like, no, we need this resolved, we need it resolved quickly and favorably.
Speaker 4 01:03:17
We need an outsider to be- Exactly, like we can’t have it be dangerous, villains, thugs running around, carjacking and killing people, it can’t be that. It’s so much more tidy if it’s guy, right, exactly.
Speaker 1 01:03:37
I love that those are the choices, like, wow, we don’t want to be this ugly thing. How about this other, less, by one degree, ugly thing?
Speaker 3 01:03:45
And there’s a version of this where, you know, Tonga maybe had texted these guys and said, I’ve got rich people in my cab. I’m going to bring them. I’m going to convince them we should go do a township tour.
Speaker 3 01:03:57
Just be waiting by this exit.
Speaker 1 01:04:00
just drive without even telling them he could just because they don’t know when.
Speaker 4 01:04:03
They don’t know the fuck, yeah. Right.
Speaker 3 01:04:06
But it’s weird, like it’s always goes back to like every time you think you have a handle on this, you look back at stuff Sriyen did that was inconsistent, like first saying that Annie wanted to go to the township, then changing the story to Tonga wanted to go to the township.
Speaker 3 01:04:18
Yeah, yeah. And so every time you unravel, it unravels. Right, right. But again, you could say he was in an absolute state of shock and distress, and maybe he was just remembering things wrong. That is true.
Speaker 3 01:04:31
There’s even oh, there’s even this funny thing, Kim, you saw about like, how at the hotel, when Sriyen was talking to one of the cops and one of the dads, right afterwards, he gets up and disappears for seven minutes.
Speaker 3 01:04:43
Right, right. And during those seven minutes, they have him on video, going to another part of the hotel, giving handing off. Yeah, to Tonga, right before Tonga was taken. Wait, what? Yeah. So everyone was making a really big deal about this.
Speaker 3 01:04:57
Right. And they’re like, what is like, what is going on? Like, why is I never.
Speaker 1 01:05:01
paid for the ride.
Speaker 3 01:05:02
Well, that’s exactly what he said. He said, Tonga reached out and said, I’m a poor South African. I know this is horrible, but can you please give me the money for the ride? So.
Speaker 1 01:05:15
You know and then he went and checked the meter. Oh
Speaker 3 01:05:20
Yeah, and then oh then the text messages that he supposedly they were sending text messages during the ride the police They asked you know the defense who’s preparing to defend Shren says can you please give us these records of these text messages at which point the police have to admit there’s text messages between Shren and the cab driver from that day.
Speaker 3 01:05:43
Mm -hmm, but they don’t have the content of the messages They just know that they happen, but they have no record whatsoever of what was of any text during the drive Okay, so they were kind of making that up.
Speaker 3 01:05:53
Oh boy
Speaker 4 01:05:56
Oh, wow, okay. So it was February 2011 when extradition hearing was scheduled and Shreen failed to appear citing mental illness. Oh, wow. Yeah, because he had apparently was devastated and was even hospitalized and even did time in a psychiatric hospital because of the trauma.
Speaker 4 01:06:20
In fact, April 20th, 2011, Shreen was held at a Bristol psychiatric facility under the Mental Health Act and concerns were raised for his safety of a violent assault where he to go back to South Africa and spend time and due time in a South African prison.
Speaker 4 01:06:44
Right.
Speaker 1 01:06:46
And he could also just be freaking out because it unraveled and he’s being implicated for shit he did. Right. I mean, there’s the way.
Speaker 4 01:06:56
Right. So on August 10th, 2011, a British judge, Howard Riddle, rules that Shreen should be extradited, stating that he had the utmost confidence in the South African justice system. The order was deemed valid in September 28th, 2011.
Speaker 3 01:07:17
Then Sri Ann appealed the decision, Theresa May actually signed the extradition order. After Theresa May signs the extradition order to send him to Cape Town, he and his family appeal with the High Court of the UK and the court sides with Sri Ann and says, you know, it would be unjust and oppressive to order his removal because his mental condition is not up to snuff and he should be extradited as soon as he is mentally able.
Speaker 1 01:07:49
Reprieve for him. Okay, and now it’s a great reprieve for us to take a quick break. Mm -hmm
Speaker 3 01:08:00
Now we’re back. Yeah. So we’re at the point where South Africa is trying to extradite Shriana. Get him to pay the Piper. Face the music.
Speaker 4 01:08:09
The Piper. Yes. The African Dancing. Whatever. It’s going on.
Speaker 3 01:08:12
Exactly. And he has had his extra papers signed by the UK authorities and appealed. And he continues appealing all the way through 2012 successfully by, you know, his mental illness. He’s very mentally unwell since the murder, obviously, for whether whether you think that’s because he’s actually distraught over what happened or because if you think he made this plan and it’s unraveling, either way,
Speaker 3 01:08:40
he’s.
Speaker 4 01:08:41
He’s a mess. And he’s citing trauma. He’s citing PTSD. And he’s under the care of a psychiatrist.
Speaker 1 01:08:49
Right, but when you’re the one saying it, it makes it less Isn’t that the whole catch -22 right? You can’t say I’m too mentally ill to fly a plane If you’re if you’re have enough capacity to know you’re mentally ill well other people are saying it Okay, there’s doctors.
Speaker 1 01:09:06
Could he be acting or could he? I don’t know. I’m just well. This is the
Speaker 4 01:09:11
the question that Jerry and I was sort of like, uh… Oh, so you, yeah, you’re right. You ready to go back and forth? Right, right. This was, this case was interesting.
Speaker 3 01:09:18
interesting in that way. And this goes on. I mean, like, this is now 2011, 2012, now we’re into 2013, early 2013 they decide his mental health is good and he can go to South Africa. But then just before he’s about to leave, one of his doctors, Claire Montgomery, tells the court, unfortunately, he suffered a severe relapse and can’t go.
Speaker 4 01:09:43
And then in January 31st, 2014, the appeal was rejected and Judge Howard Riddles’ ruling was upheld.
Speaker 1 01:09:54
He’s…
Speaker 3 01:09:55
going to be extradited.
Speaker 1 01:09:56
Right. Okay, so all this back and forth back and forth. Yeah, now he’s being
Speaker 3 01:09:59
And by the way, this is so long right because this murder happened in 2010 Yes, so now we’re into 2014. Yeah for you So there’s enough time has passed that BBC’s panorama program, which is their big series in the end of 2013 Errors a whole documentary on this case in this case and specifically Pick it apart the forensics that none of it adds up They think then they’re they are definitely leaning the direction that Sri and his innocence.
Speaker 3 01:10:24
Yes. Yeah innocent and they just were attacked Yeah, yeah, and this just prompts Absolute mayhem mayhem and outrage from her family like how dare they the trial hasn’t even happened Right. He’s been in a mental hospital Their daughter is dead their sister.
Speaker 3 01:10:41
There’s their sister their cousin is dead and the BBC is putting out a documentary Arguing for his innocence right speaking when there hasn’t
Speaker 4 01:10:50
been a trial. Right, speaking to pathologists and gun analysts and meanwhile they’re like, but you didn’t see this case, you didn’t study the… Right, it’s all hearsay. Right, exactly.
Speaker 1 01:11:04
All right. But I’m guessing that her family is now convinced that he did it. A hundred percent. Okay. And that anything short of that.
Speaker 3 01:11:12
their her family is convinced because of all the inconsistencies that he write that he did it
Speaker 4 01:11:16
right? And the lies and the…
Speaker 3 01:11:18
You know, there’s just too many circumstantial connections between him and this cab driver and the texting and the fact that he got thrown out of a van or pushed out and isn’t hurt. And the the German master just.
Speaker 3 01:11:30
Oh, yeah. And obviously the fact that he’s been having a whole set of gay affairs.
Speaker 4 01:11:36
clearly was not, that was not information she was privy to. Right.
Speaker 3 01:11:41
So he’s been hiding and lying about stuff.
Speaker 1 01:11:44
was the german master in the documentary
Speaker 3 01:11:46
uh i don’t know but i’ll i would imagine he was he’s too because he’s a pivotal part of the story
Speaker 4 01:11:52
Right.
Speaker 2 01:11:53
It is.
Speaker 1 01:11:56
All right, so then what happens?
Speaker 4 01:11:58
Well, finally, finally, finally, finally, it happened.
Speaker 3 01:12:03
to me right in front of my eyes she ends extra dieting that’s yes
Speaker 4 01:12:13
Nice. And so on April 7, 2014, Shreen arrives at Cape Town and was arrested. He pled not guilty to the charges of conspiracy to commit kidnapping, robbery, with aggravating circumstances, kidnapping, murder, and obstructing the administration of justice.
Speaker 4 01:12:40
Not guilty.
Speaker 3 01:12:42
He pollutes. Not guilty. Right.
Speaker 4 01:12:43
Right. And he was flown on a private charter plane at the cost of approximately $161 ,000, which was the cost to rent it, and would stay in a private room at a psychiatric hospital in South Africa. Right.
Speaker 1 01:13:00
But Zolotango picked him up at the airport.
Speaker 4 01:13:03
No. Sriyan’s trial commenced October 6th, 2014, almost four years since Annie’s murder. Trial began with Sriyan’s counsel reading a statement written by his client explaining why he is pleading not guilty.
Speaker 4 01:13:21
He addressed his love for Annie, his three -year struggle with trauma and mental illness, his sexual orientation and admission to these encounters with the German master. He admits it. He does. He does finally come clean.
Speaker 3 01:13:38
his opening statement. Yes, yes. Which is very strategic.
Speaker 4 01:13:44
Oh, exactly. Yeah, it’s not it’s preach brother.
Speaker 3 01:13:49
I’ll preach. Can I preach? Preach, preach, preach, preach. So the reason he admits to his bisexuality and the stuff with the German master in his opening statement is because the South African prosecution, their entire case, rests on the idea that he was leading a gay double life and that the murder was to provide cover for him for the rest of his life, right?
Speaker 3 01:14:15
Like basically what you said, like kill her, I’m traumatized, I never get married again. He can go, still be fine, right? So that’s their whole case. So the way the judge running this courtroom interprets the admission of evidence is that you can only admit as evidence things that are not admitted to essentially, like things that are not already known, right?
Speaker 3 01:14:42
Right. So if he had not said all this stuff about his bisexuality and the German master, then they and the prosecution could have said, well, isn’t this true? Isn’t that true? And really paint him out to be a liar, this double life, force him to admit it, it makes him look really bad.
Speaker 3 01:14:57
And it’s a great case for them. By saying all this upfront, the judge then says, okay, so just so we’re clear for all the lawyers in the courtroom, nothing about his sex life can be brought up again in this case because it’s all out in the open now.
Speaker 3 01:15:10
So there’s no it’s it would just be conjecture rather than evidentiary proceedings.
Speaker 1 01:15:19
Well, yeah, but they can still use that.
Speaker 4 01:15:22
Well, they could, but the judge made a decision.
Speaker 3 01:15:26
She made a decision which is a very, I thought, very weird decision. Agreed. It felt like a, I hate to say it felt like a decision that was paid for, but if I ever saw a decision that felt paid for, that was it.
Speaker 3 01:15:40
To say, okay, well since he admitted to this thing that nobody, that his wife and family didn’t know four years ago, but since he finally said it now and he’s about to be tried, therefore it can’t be discussed in the case.
Speaker 3 01:15:50
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying, that’s crazy. It feels absurd. It does, it does.
Speaker 1 01:15:55
Okay, all right there. Okay, so then he mitts all that in the person. Let me just show you let me
Speaker 3 01:16:00
Just show you the judge just to say like this whole thing feels like a movie. This is the judge. Oh
Speaker 1 01:16:05
She looks a little like a crazy person.
Speaker 2 01:16:10
Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:16:12
So just a little bit. I’m not saying that his family bought the judge, but if you were ever gonna make a case that felt like someone bought the judge, it was this, to have someone say, literally you can’t talk about the thing.
Speaker 3 01:16:25
If there’s any motive here, right, for him, it would be to hide his gay life. Now, you also have to remember that there was actually evidence of potential sexual assault. There were not texts between him and Cab Driver.
Speaker 3 01:16:41
There are explanations for, his explanations for everything that’s happened, even if it all feels, at times, a bit sketchy. So her throwing this, blobbing this roadblock means that there’s no case. It’s taking off the table.
Speaker 3 01:16:56
There’s nothing.
Speaker 4 01:16:57
taken it off the table. There’s nothing in that case. Yeah, as a side note, Shreen did use a dating website for gay and bisexual men called Gaydar. It was reported that he had accessed that site less than 48 hours after Annie’s murder.
Speaker 4 01:17:16
Doesn’t mean he’s a murderer. Right. But it does mean that he was looking for sex.
Speaker 3 01:17:22
or just gay chat, or maybe a gay guy who makes a nice chicken vindaloo.
Speaker 1 01:17:29
Good point. Well, what about the statements by the other people, though?
Speaker 3 01:17:32
Because those statements were all coerced under torture and promises, they hold no water. And so the judge, you know, after she lobs this obstacle at the prosecution, so now the prosecutors are just like, stammering and struggling to make a case because, and she starts laying into them like, you’ve had four years to make this case, the judge starts laying into them.
Speaker 1 01:17:55
We’ll have to say something. I cut you off.
Speaker 4 01:17:57
No, I was just going to say that the judge had deemed the prosecutions mentioned, she didn’t want that mention, and that she had even noted there were serious inconsistencies in the testimonies of the three defendants, Zonga.
Speaker 4 01:18:14
Mr. X. Right. Mr. X and… Hwabe. Yes.
Speaker 3 01:18:18
Right, so the and the three of them their stories Have mild overlapping. Yeah, they don’t all there. There’s they’re all there’s in consistency Everybody says the other one did the murder this one. They just they’re all right
Speaker 4 01:18:31
It offered conflicting stories as to how Annie was murdered, each blaming the other for the shooting, citing different positions of where the shooting took place. It was very not clear -cut and dry.
Speaker 1 01:18:43
But I guess they never found a gun they never found who actually pulled the trigger
Speaker 4 01:18:47
of that. They decided that Mr. X was the trigger man. He was incidentally the one that went to trial, didn’t take a plea.
Speaker 1 01:18:58
Yeah, but he also said that it was Sri An, or he said that he was contacted by people that said that we’re going to be coming through with some people to.
Speaker 4 01:19:06
When he decided that he was taking it to trial, he was not cooperating with the state. So he wasn’t really saying anything. Oh, was he one of the guys that got tortured?
Speaker 1 01:19:16
Because you said he confessed.
Speaker 4 01:19:18
test. He retracted that confession and decided to go to court. He was the only one that didn’t plead out. He was the only one that, which changes the dynamic and even what testimony you can even pull from him at that point.
Speaker 4 01:19:36
I see. Wow, what a clusterfuck. Yeah, it really was.
Speaker 3 01:19:40
Yeah, and you’re kind of you’re kind of left that thing of like, okay, either either Sriyen did land and immediately asked this guy to help kill his wife. And that’s what happened. Or Tonga, the cab driver, like was like, Oh, I’m going to get these people in the township where my friends are waiting to rob them.
Speaker 3 01:19:56
Right. That’s option two. Option three is Tonga. None of them are in on it. None of them are in on it. And Tonga was like, All right, I guess I’ll take a risk and drive them in there. And then they got carjacked.
Speaker 3 01:20:07
Right. Right.
Speaker 1 01:20:09
Or, there’s no way that, you know, a rich guy from the UK can’t reach out to somebody in South Africa way before they go and get hooked up with this Tonga fellow.
Speaker 3 01:20:24
That that was a question I had was like, okay if you need days or weeks to arrange the hit How do we know he didn’t do that? No, there was a couple of articles I found that I couldn’t find any Firm evidence for this but I found two articles that reported that he had gone to Cape Town alone secretly a week before But I only found two articles and there was like not a lot of reliable source and I’m like Well,
Speaker 3 01:20:51
we’ll buy you a lot but the thing is I mean unless you went on a private plane and really were not registered like that’s a pretty easy thing for
Speaker 1 01:21:00
You mean like the way they got there both times? I guess so.
Speaker 3 01:21:02
that’s why they got there. So yeah, it’s possible he flew in there a week early and met up with this guy and then said, we’re flying on this flight, be outside, I’ll pick your cab and. Yeah, to your point.
Speaker 1 01:21:15
Like why would rich people not take the most elegant way to get from the airport to the hotel? Yeah, why would they take a random cabbie who then gives them the number and like right and I’ll be yours so many
Speaker 3 01:21:29
and there’s a lot of lot that doesn’t happen.
Speaker 4 01:21:31
Speaker 4 01:21:52
And so on December 8, 2014, Judge Traverso formally dismissed the case against Shrian, having found there was insufficient evidence which a reasonable court would convict citing many lies and inaccuracies undermining witnesses credibility.
Speaker 4 01:22:15
Wow. So he goes back. And lives his best life. With his hot new Brazilian photographer boyfriend.
Speaker 1 01:22:25
What yeah, not the German master
Speaker 3 01:22:31
He’s no longer with us. No the stress of all of this. No Caused him severe mental illness because he of all the attention that came on him and he unfortunately Committed suicide in 2016. Oh, wow
Speaker 4 01:22:47
Thirteen yeah, really sad 20
Speaker 3 01:22:50
of all this insanity. Holy shit. You never know who’s gonna be.
Speaker 1 01:22:54
affected by, and he brought himself into it.
Speaker 3 01:22:57
He did he was trying to be helpful and the attention that came on him was was a lot. It was a lot. Yeah
Speaker 4 01:23:02
And poor Annie, yeah, oh, you know, it’s her family and her family. I mean she was she was so incredibly Close to her family her and her dad had even written a book about it I mean, it was just heartbreaking.
Speaker 4 01:23:17
Yeah, just like you could just see you look in the faces of her dad and her sister brother and mom and you just the angst it’s it’s I’m an impasse. I’m an impasse. I just you could just feel it I mean, and honestly, I just I believe that Annie is and it’s so cliche, but I feel she’s in a better place This world sucks just people
Speaker 3 01:23:46
Suck like if he did do this It’s like just be a fucking man and just come out and be gay and like cuz that’s where you live your life By the way, that’s where you fucking ended up. Exactly. That’s where like that’s the other thing like
Speaker 6 01:23:59
Nobody dying
Speaker 3 01:24:00
you ended up you ended up out gay admitting it with a boyfriend and everything
Speaker 4 01:24:05
What is the takeaway?
Speaker 3 01:24:06
Yeah, come out, come out, wherever you are.
Speaker 4 01:24:10
be you
Speaker 3 01:24:12
Something to tell you. Oh, please. You would be so popular in the gay community, like you’re such a bear. Really? He is a bear.
Speaker 4 01:24:19
But he’s my bear
Speaker 1 01:24:25
Oh, God.
Speaker 4 01:24:28
Yeah, that’s the
Speaker 3 01:24:30
the takeaway from this I mean I don’t think there’s any there’s just as a horrible for her and her family but I think the takeaway for me is like just like if you’re gay just come out like like no matter how painful it is with your family find a support system if you can right now and I was saying we love you
Speaker 4 01:24:50
If your family loves you, it’s not gonna matter. Well, some families, it does. Yeah, but then you don’t need those people, because then those people are raggedy and… Yeah, but some people are in a situation where they do need them.
Speaker 3 01:25:03
for like, like financial support. So it’s like it’s not an easy way of the wand, you know, kind of thing. Yeah, if you’re like a really sad family. But in his case, it’s like, yes, I understand the Hindu religion is not supportive of that of that lifestyle.
Speaker 3 01:25:20
But he’s also in a position where he has wealth and an access to resources where if there’s, you know, I’m not again, I’m not like saying I’m in his mind. I’m sure there’s agony involved in coming out when you’re raised in that kind of religion.
Speaker 3 01:25:34
But like he had the resources. It’s not like he had to stay at home. You’re right. Because he couldn’t afford to live on his own or couldn’t afford.
Speaker 4 01:25:44
You know, and also, you know what I would say, because I know that during the course of even the courtship and the planning of the wedding, I know that Annie had at some points, several points, had second thoughts and had ultimately decided that she needed to go through with it, because apparently her parents had saved for, had been saving for this day since she were a little girl, and she didn’t want to disappoint them.
Speaker 4 01:26:16
My takeaway is, girl, disappoint them. You know what? Because they don’t, your parents, they do not want you in an unhappy relationship. They would rather have you than all the money in the world. And you should never, if you, if you, if your child comes to you and is saying, I don’t want this, I’m afraid, I, what parent is it going to be like, okay, okay, let’s calm down.
Speaker 4 01:26:46
Let’s prioritize you, your safety. That’s what’s most important to me. So let’s do what we need to do to make sure that you feel safe and that you’re making the best possible choice for yourself. And if it’s not marrying this person, that’s totally fine.
Speaker 4 01:27:03
It’s just, it’s so sad because it’s, it’s devastating.
Speaker 1 01:27:08
That sounds like that’s the takeaway you gotta you gotta follow your instincts
Speaker 4 01:27:12
And open up to your family, and even if it’s not your biological family somewhere… Someone.
Speaker 3 01:27:18
Yeah, right, right. Well, like I would love to hear this is my dream takeaway for this My dream ending for this one is like here’s my favorite version of this is that this was just a random Terrible situation that it wasn’t premeditated by again That he but that he you know, he could have regardless of that.
Speaker 3 01:27:36
He could have told her earlier. I’m bisexual or I’m gay Like is this isn’t gonna work. Yeah, like just be out and be on and then as a result of all of this trauma That he ends up out Anyways, right boyfriend, right?
Speaker 3 01:27:51
I would love to hear that. He has taken some of his Magillians of dollars and started some kind of foundation For gay kids, you know who are in religious families who don’t have the resources, you know It’s like quick just like up and leave and not be support by their family To provide some kind of support and counseling or something like that Brilliant, I don’t know if that yeah done that but like in my mind that would be right That’s the that’s the epiphany is like I gotta
Speaker 4 01:28:22
And what great way to sort of honor the situation and the circumstances. Yeah. Because no matter what actually happened with the community.
Speaker 3 01:28:31
crime, the murder, the pain caused by his inability to be honest about who he was. Even if they had gone on a great honeymoon and come home, eventually the secret would have eaten away at him and or Annie.
Speaker 3 01:28:47
Absolutely. So yeah, there’s no version of this where it’s like just figure like if you can help other people, if you’re in a position where you’ve gone through trauma or a situation that you thought was impossible and you lived and you came out the other side.
Speaker 3 01:29:01
OK, if you can help other people, if you’re in a position to help and it’s great if you can do that. Absolutely.
Speaker 4 01:29:09
And I guess that’s a great place to sort of end it. It’s a good one to go on. Right, exactly. It’s be you, do you, but don’t hurt nobody else. Words to live. Words to live by.
Speaker 3 01:29:21
Am I allowed to be like preach sister, or is that like cultural appropriation?
Speaker 4 01:29:24
No, you you come on baby. You can do it for each sister. Yes. All right Thank you for joining us guys. Thank you guys. We’ll catch you on the next
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