Ep. 14 Terror in Tampa (Part One)

Speaker 1 00:00

The worst one first.

 

Speaker 2 00:01

Well, that’s a tough one, bud.

 

Speaker 3 00:05

All right.

 

Speaker 2 00:07

How about the Jolly Rogers?

 

Speaker 1 00:09

I’m flipping a coin, I don’t even know.

 

Speaker 2 00:11

And also, are we reading any of our reviews about how horrible we are to Christians? We can.

 

Speaker 1 00:31

Pack your body bags, we’re going on a Slaycation. I am your co -host, Adam Tex Davis, and I am joined as always by my lovely wife, Kim. Hi. And my friend and business partner, Jerry. Hello, guys.

 

Speaker 1 00:46

And this is your one -stop shopping for murders that happen on vacation. And mysterious deaths, not always a murder. Sometimes a mysterious death, as Kim likes to tell me. Before we start, I don’t know, me personally, I don’t know the case.

 

Speaker 1 01:01

Kim and Jerry, they do the research. They’re gonna tell the case, I’m gonna learn along with you, the listener. It’s important to say that because you’re gonna wonder, why is that? Host not know what’s going on.

 

Speaker 1 01:11

So that’s the format of our show. Before we start, I’d like to do another edition of what have we learned on previous episodes of Slaycation? Except this one isn’t so much what we learned from an episode, as much as maybe something we’ve learned from our listeners.

 

Speaker 1 01:27

It seems some of you listening just really don’t give a shit who’s telling you these stories. You just wanna hear the case. As someone put, I’m paraphrasing, these cases could be great, except for all the mindless drivel and idle chit -chat.

 

Speaker 1 01:44

This show is about the cases, not about the hosts. Why are you making it about yourselves? Anyway, I might be combining two reviews, by the way. But that’s the basic gist. So first of all, I didn’t think we were making it about us.

 

Speaker 1 02:00

We’ve only done a couple of episodes. I assume people might wanna know who we are and why they’re listening to us doing the show. I certainly didn’t think it was idle chit -chat. Maybe I’m wrong. After all, who are we?

 

Speaker 2 02:12

What is idle chitchat like what is there non idle chitchat like I don’t understand the term

 

Speaker 1 02:17

Well, you’re not allowed to talk about anything but the case. I think I think anything but the case is idle chit chat. Well

 

Speaker 2 02:23

That that could be a great show for someone to start but our show definitely involves idol chit chat I mean, I think we’re kind of the kings and queens of idol chit chat

 

Speaker 1 02:32

know I think a lot of them do that we do but Kim isn’t isn’t that kind of par for the course with these

 

Speaker 3 02:36

Look, I listen to podcasts and I kind of like, I guess, idle chit -chat.

 

Speaker 2 02:42

And a lot of them have it. A lot of them. In fact, you know, some of the… How do you not have it? Like, Morbid has idle chit -chat. Um… Isn’t that what… Oh, I don’t know.

 

Speaker 3 02:51

Anybody? I like audiobooks, too, but…

 

Speaker 2 02:54

I think these people would prefer that we find like the Wikipedia description of the case and then just read it. Right there. It’s just.

 

Speaker 3 03:02

their podcasts like that. There are a lot of podcasts that aren’t there.

 

Speaker 2 03:05

There actually are. There are many of them. They’re available anywhere you get podcasts.

 

Speaker 1 03:10

Now, before I say like, look, you know, Jerry and I, we are Emmy -nominated TV producers.

 

Speaker 2 03:15

Oh, we are. We are not just Emmy nominated TV producers. Oh, we are Emmy nomination winning TV producers. We won an Emmy nomination. We did. We both won an Emmy nomination. Oh.

 

Speaker 1 03:29

Not Emmys but

 

Speaker 2 03:31

Lucas and and Brian and I were talking about Emmys or something and some Lucas was mentioning he had gotten one for the circus you got a nomination I said well that’s great we’re both Emmy nomination winning producers right and I think it’s a great term

 

Speaker 1 03:44

Yeah, it is pretty fun. And Kim, of course, was a social worker at a domestic violence shelter. She’s a true crime fanatic. I wrote the second funniest Ryan Reynolds movie. I once received a Christmas card from John Wayne Gacy.

 

Speaker 1 03:55

Sure, who hasn’t? But I’m just saying, you know, I don’t know. I feel like we have some resume to listen to us speak. I mean, Kim and I have been married for 25 years. Jerry and I have gone back 30 years as friends and partners, you know, creative partners.

 

Speaker 2 04:12

for us to be defending ourselves in this way at all. Honestly, if you don’t like our chitchat, switch it off. No one’s holding you down and making you listen to our podcast. I do have a question though.

 

Speaker 2 04:21

You wrote the second funniest Ryan Reynolds movie. Is that based on like an objective analysis of all of the Ryan Reynolds movies?

 

Speaker 1 04:29

He’s buried in the coffin for the whole movie is the funniest.

 

Speaker 2 04:32

That’s the funniest one. The second funniest one. No, I’m kidding. I think Deadpool is the funniest. Deadpool’s great.

 

Speaker 1 04:37

And then,

 

Speaker 2 04:38

You know just just friends you can say it. I can’t say it. This is what is it like something like like Bloody Mary Bloody Mary? Yeah, I don’t think if I say just friends three if you say three times Ryan will show up.

 

Speaker 2 04:48

I think so Okay, there is well Adam Adam did write just friends and it is a very funny movie and it does in fact star Ryan Reynolds There you go

 

Speaker 1 04:57

but you know what here’s the thing if you don’t like all that I get it some people just want to hear about a vacation and someone dying on it so for all you impatient slake haters out there we hear you and we started adding in the show notes the exact time code for when the case starts okay so you could just skip ahead you can just skip ahead enjoy all the slake hating without the mindless drivel that’s how cool and enabling we are we love all of you you’re welcome and you’re welcome you’re welcome you’ve also made more work for us now that we’ve got that off our chests

 

Speaker 2 05:34

has to listen to the show and figure out that the case starts at 5 .18, and then we have to put that in the show notes. So you’re welcome a second time.

 

Speaker 1 05:44

I, I, sometimes I like to just skip through the mindless dribble though and get right to it. You’re doing this for you.

 

Speaker 4 05:51

You know, sometimes I just feel like Adam’s like…

 

Speaker 2 05:54

I have to listen to these two. I’ve listened to Kim at home. I gotta listen to Jerry at the office

 

Speaker 1 06:01

my two wives. Speaking of, Kim, where are we slacating today? Josh, what’s the time code on that?

 

Speaker 3 06:11

Save me some work. Oh my God.

 

Speaker 1 06:13

All right, anyway, we’re good. Where are we slaking today, honey?

 

Speaker 3 06:21

Well today, our Slaycation takes us on a 14 -hour road trip adventure from rural Van Wert County in Ohio to the sunny state of Florida known for everblades, lean parks, and white sandy beaches.

 

Speaker 1 06:39

okay a trip from ohio yep a road trip not just yeah yeah who’s going on this road trip

 

Speaker 3 06:47

Let me just say it’s a family, and I’m going to say this wasn’t just a vacation, but a much -needed getaway for the Rogers family. To regroup, get their mind right, and just relax.

 

Speaker 1 07:03

Okay, the Rogers family. Yes, yes. How many people are, what is this family? Three. Three people. Okay, you got a mom, a dad, and a kid.

 

Speaker 3 07:10

Well, it’s a mom and her two kids, a mom and her two daughters.

 

Speaker 2 07:14

all, Christy are the daughters. Joan is the mom. Okay. Her high school sweetheart, husband and father to the girls, Hal did not come on this trip. He stayed back at their 200 acre farm in Ohio. Gotcha.

 

Speaker 2 07:26

Right. Right. Right.

 

Speaker 1 07:27

are they going to florida

 

Speaker 3 07:31

Okay, so there are jobs that provide mental health days as paid time off, and I would consider this, minus the paid time, a definite mental health respite, definitely.

 

Speaker 2 07:47

And we’re going to get into some of what the respite was from as we go through this. But it was basically the mom, the two daughters, just as Kim said, they needed a moment away. And, you know, Florida is such a heavy tourist destination.

 

Speaker 2 08:01

They’ve never left Ohio before, actually.

 

Speaker 3 08:03

It was an exciting adventure sure do we know we’re in Florida Just relax take a breath Okay, it was hard work. I mean there aren’t they’re working on a farm. It’s long hours. There are no days off There’s no sleeping in and the girls are up at the crack of dawn doing chores before heading off to school Can I ask how old the girls are?

 

Speaker 3 08:27

Yes 14 and 17. Okay, Joe

 

Speaker 2 08:30

Even works nights at a warehouse to help provide for the family a little extra money And it also gives them health insurance. So right but the family runs the farm. Yeah

 

Speaker 1 08:41

them.

 

Speaker 3 08:41

Yes, it’s their farm. Gotcha, okay. And Joe, as Jerry mentioned, has a second job where she is a forklift operator and works in assembly in a place called Paton’s Northern. It’s a distribution center.

 

Speaker 3 08:55

Okay. So you can imagine between work on the farm, husband, kids, everything else, she is just wiped out. Okay. In researching this case and looking at the photographs of the family though, you know, I have to say I could just feel like a warmth emanate from their faces and the smiles looking back at me.

 

Speaker 3 09:16

I’m no psychic, but you know, I could just feel kind of the affection between all of them for each other.

 

Speaker 1 09:26

And I’m no psychic, but unfortunately, I feel like something bad is about to happen. Yeah.

 

Speaker 3 09:32

Exactly. Oh, man. Yeah, we have a picture of the family.

 

Speaker 2 09:36

It’s very sweet looking family. They do.

 

Speaker 3 09:39

Now, I mean, it’s, you know.

 

Speaker 1 09:40

And the kids are younger in that photo, obviously. Yeah.

 

Speaker 3 09:43

Yeah. So, Hal, his wife Joan, who friends called Jo, and their two daughters, 17 -year -old Michelle and her 14 -year -old sister,

 

Speaker 1 09:54

But dad stays home to work on the farm.

 

Speaker 3 09:56

Right, right. Hal and Joe, as Jerry mentioned, were high school sweethearts. And by the time, by this time had been together, I would say maybe a little over 20 years, about 20 years, if not a little over.

 

Speaker 3 10:11

Joe gave birth to her beautiful Pisces girl, Michelle Lee Rogers on February 22nd, 1972. And a little over two and a half years later, on October 6th, 1974, Joe and Hal would welcome their Libra baby girl, Christie Eugenia Rogers to the world.

 

Speaker 3 10:34

Michelle was at a point in her life now where she really began to consider what she wanted to do with her life. She’s a high schooler and a solid student. And she was contemplating going to college and maybe studying veterinarian medicine.

 

Speaker 3 10:49

She was conflicted because there was a part of her that could see herself continuing her life on the farm, running a farm, raising a family of her own. And she was involved in a club at her school called Future Farmers of America and 4 -H Club, which I believe was a group of young people who were looking to fine tune their leadership and life skills to empower them for the future.

 

Speaker 3 11:19

Right, Joe.

 

Speaker 1 11:20

What are the four H’s?

 

Speaker 2 11:22

Um, it’s, uh, horticulture, hogs, happy, happy, uh, farms and, uh, hand service. Right. Okay.

 

Speaker 1 11:33

Let’s make it sure.

 

Speaker 2 11:35

What are the 4 -Hs?

 

Speaker 3 11:37

Oh, that’s a really good question.

 

Speaker 2 11:39

We have to look that up right now. It’s head, heart, hands, and health. These are the four values that members work on through fun and engaging programs. It’s a great program, by the way. 4 -H has always been around for a long time.

 

Speaker 2 11:51

I feel like I’ve, yeah, I’ve heard of it.

 

Speaker 1 11:53

it before, but I don’t know if it’s as big here in the east coast.

 

Speaker 3 11:56

Well, Michelle apparently was a part of that whole scene. And she enjoyed a sweet relationship with her high school sweetheart classmate, boy by the name of Jeff Feasebly, I believe it’s pronounced.

 

Speaker 1 12:09

That’s his full name? I have no idea how to say it. OK, let’s just say Jeff. Let’s just say Jeff.

 

Speaker 3 12:12

And indeed, you know, so indeed she had a lot to think about. Christy the baby was a cheerful, carefree and effervescent kid. She looked like she just oozed exuberant. She was athletic, practiced softball and loved to practice cheer routines for their cows.

 

Speaker 3 12:32

How freaking adorable is that? That’s so freaking adorable. The girls loved their cows, by the way, and really viewed them as pets. They would cuddle them. So was it a dairy farm? Yeah. Ah, okay. They would cuddle them and sometimes sleep with Rose and Betty.

 

Speaker 3 12:51

That was what they named him. Isn’t that adorable?

 

Speaker 1 12:54

the cows were named Rose and Betty. They just had two cows.

 

Speaker 3 12:57

Well, I’m sure they have lots of cows, but they.

 

Speaker 2 13:00

I don’t know. Do you think they were named Rose and Betty because of Golden Girls? That’s a good question. Does Betty White play as Rose?

 

Speaker 3 13:06

Could be. I hope so. Could be. That would be hilarious.

 

Speaker 2 13:09

The dog was named Blanche.

 

Speaker 3 13:14

But I’m not going to lie, I would probably be cuddling the cows too.

 

Speaker 2 13:19

You’re a cow cuddler.

 

Speaker 3 13:21

I know it. Yeah.

 

Speaker 4 13:28

Hey!

 

Speaker 2 13:29

today on a very strange episode of Slaycation.

 

Speaker 3 13:34

All right, so anyway, so.

 

Speaker 1 13:38

Milk me.

 

Speaker 2 13:39

That’s the line we were trying. Ah, we just yeah for age

 

Speaker 1 13:45

Just cross stage. 4HR. All right, all right, guys.

 

Speaker 3 13:53

So how the dad has a brother, he had a brother, John, and he also was on the farm. He lived in the trailer on the farm and helped run the farm. And he lived in the trailer with his girlfriend. He, by all accounts, was a fucking weirdo.

 

Speaker 3 14:12

Oh. Yeah, yeah, he would wear army fatigues and tell tales of missions with the CIA and his work with the Secret Service, just batshit crazy. Those are all made up.

 

Speaker 1 14:25

You’re saying.

 

Speaker 3 14:27

I guess if you’re doing that kind of work, you’re not in a trailer, on a farm, milking cows. And that’s just a guess. I mean, if I’m wrong, somebody in the audience will tell me. You know how Rambo 6 started?

 

Speaker 1 14:39

No, weird uncle with military fantasies living on the farm in a trailer with his girlfriend.

 

Speaker 3 14:46

They eventually break up, they break up, so she’s still living there, but their relationship is done. So she’s looking for a place to live. But one day, in May of 1988, while on her way home, she was jumped by a masked bandit, who brandished a knife, restrained, blindfolded, and raped her.

 

Speaker 1 15:08

cheese in the backwoods of Ohio or whatever it’s a rural space I mean there’s not a lot of

 

Speaker 3 15:17

Right. It’s not a lot of. Yeah.

 

Speaker 1 15:19

How far was it near their house or was it in the town?

 

Speaker 3 15:22

It wasn’t far. I mean, she was heading home. Very oddly. I’m not sure how the part managed this, but he videotaped the whole encounter. And the ex -girlfriend knew from the sound of the voice that it was John.

 

Speaker 3 15:39

It was freaking John. Wait, what? Yes. It was John. It was freaking John.

 

Speaker 2 15:45

John Rogers, her ex, has assaulted, has assaulted her. Gotcha.

 

Speaker 3 15:51

Yeah, so she calls authorities, makes a report and they obtain a warrant because of course she’s got, there’s a fucking videotape of this assault. So they go in and the police locate the video of the attack, but they also discovered numerous images and sexually explicit videos of assault on a young girl.

 

Speaker 1 16:26

a random young girl. His fucking niece.

 

Speaker 3 16:29

I knew it! His fucking niece. Yeah, the niece. His fucking niece. The younger one or the older one? The older one.

 

Speaker 1 16:36

Michelle.

 

Speaker 3 16:38

This piece of shit is and was threatening and molesting this child since she was 14 years old.

 

Speaker 2 16:51

In an interesting note, which Kim’s gonna get into a little bit more, but after John was arrested for sexually assaulting his ex -girlfriend, Hal Rogers, who is Michelle and Christy’s dad, and John’s brother, had agreed to post bail.

 

Speaker 2 17:12

Like, I think a $10 ,000 bail. That’s right, that’s right. And he promised he would do it, he promised the family, he’s like, I’m gonna help Uncle John, I’ll post the bail.

 

Speaker 3 17:21

Well, this was before he knew that his brother was a child rapist of his own daughter. Oh, I thought it was a- He’s fucking child rapist.

 

Speaker 1 17:30

Thought he was gonna do it so that he could beat the shit out of him cuz that’s what I would do well That’s the best get him out now. I could kick the shit out

 

Speaker 2 17:37

That’s a good thought. But initially, you know, the plan was he was going to post bail because John was arrested and charged with raping this ex of his, and then- But there was any videotape of him with-

 

Speaker 3 17:47

videotape, pictures, three years worth, mind you. And the girl never said anything, huh? He threatened to kill her. He threatened to kill her and her family. I mean, and he’s- No, I believe that. Raping her, so she’s probably like, well, if you could do that, you could probably kill your brother, your other niece, and my mother, so.

 

Speaker 3 18:09

Right, right.

 

Speaker 2 18:10

And so most people in this situation would say, well, I’m not going to post them. Forget about your bail. I’m going to actually want to kill you. Of course, because you’ve been not only raping this other woman, you’re sexually assaulting your niece.

 

Speaker 2 18:24

My daughter. Right. That is not what Hal Rodman said.

 

Speaker 3 18:27

That was just fucking disgusting.

 

Speaker 2 18:29

Hal says, I promised I would post bail for my brother and I’m gonna post bail. Even though he’s now posting bail for a guy who’s also accused, who’s not so accused, but the video of him raping his daughter, he posts bail.

 

Speaker 2 18:45

As you can imagine, this causes

 

Speaker 3 18:49

Made your family drama. Just drama. I mean, you can just imagine. Because you go back to living on the farm with them? Okay, so he’s in jail. Right. But he posted the bail. Right. And I’m sure he wasn’t staying with them there.

 

Speaker 3 19:05

But here’s just another really fucked up tidbit.

 

Speaker 1 19:11

Oh my god, this is like the but wait, there’s more case. Yeah. Yeah. No

 

Speaker 3 19:15

There’s a lot of that, so buckle up and brace yourself. I am.

 

Speaker 5 19:19

The Hargan women seem to have it all.

 

Speaker 6 19:22

From the outside looking in, we were blessed. My mom was amazing.

 

Speaker 5 19:26

But as detectives would soon learn there was a lot going on inside the Hargan household.

 

Speaker 3 19:31

and I have been calling my mom, Dan the house, Dan Helen.

 

Speaker 1 19:35

That one’s answering.

 

Speaker 5 19:37

63 -year -old Pamela Hargan gunned down in her own home. Her youngest daughter Helen lay dead upstairs.

 

Speaker 6 19:44

Patrol, when they arrived, assumed or thought that there might have been a murder -suicide.

 

Speaker 5 19:49

but for the detectives on the scene. There were things about the scene itself that were concerning to us on day one. Who would want to kill their mother and their little sister? There is no boogeyman here.

 

Speaker 5 20:01

It is exactly who we think it is. I’m Peter Van Sant from 48 Hours. This is Blood is Thicker, the Hargen Family Killings. Listen to Blood is Thicker, the Hargen Family Killings, wherever you get your podcasts.

 

Speaker 3 20:19

Cal’s mother, their mother, John and Hal, Irene Rogers. Well, guess whose side she’s on?

 

Speaker 1 20:32

Um… the… no. Really? She takes John’s side? He wouldn’t do such a thing? Is that what she says? Or is she…

 

Speaker 3 20:43

Apparently the pictures, the videos, three years of which wasn’t enough evidence for her.

 

Speaker 1 20:50

I mean, it was obvious, though, right? It wasn’t like, oh, it’s grainy. It’s the Bigfoot, you know, it’s like could be him.

 

Speaker 2 20:55

No, these were like we haven’t seen that we haven’t seen them recently.

 

Speaker 3 20:59

So no, I’m going to speculate. I’m not a, you know, investigator or, but three years worth of video content of assault. I’m sure that there was, if you’re going to say the grainy can’t quite make it out argument, there had to be one where you’re like, oh, be that as it may.

 

Speaker 3 21:23

It is completely insane to me to think that there are even sides in this.

 

Speaker 2 21:32

Yeah, but there shouldn’t be sides. I mean, look, people are innocent until proven guilty. But that’s not when there’s evidence, right, when there’s evidence. Well, that’s how you prove them guilty. Right.

 

Speaker 2 21:44

But it’s like, OK, there’s like videos, there’s pictures, there’s all this stuff. And to take a side is just just the whole family just getting torn apart, basically, by this.

 

Speaker 1 21:56

OK, so this is all happening. What year? Eighty nine. Eighty nine. Oh, so he’s got like old video camera. Oh, yeah. Just camera. Right.

 

Speaker 3 22:05

Right, which is interesting to think that like during You’re in the commission of a rape and somehow you’re videotaping this. I I was trying to hold cameras Yeah, no, really. I was trying to envision

 

Speaker 1 22:18

pioneer for influencers

 

Speaker 2 22:23

I don’t know the details of what’s on these videos, but there is a kind of sexual predator, sexual assault that can happen, especially with young girls, where it’s not, you know, where there’s like a grooming that happens and you hear about this where like someone sort of like tests the water.

 

Speaker 2 22:43

I’ve known women who’ve gone through this and then at some point they’re like, oh wait, this wasn’t consensual because I’m 15 or I’m 16 or it’s my uncle, I’m like 14, right? And it’s like, there’s a, you just see, so this could be one of those cases where, you know, who knows, maybe he was very open about having the camera out.

 

Speaker 2 23:04

I don’t know, I don’t know. But like these kind of sexual predators who do this kind of thing are, you know, they’re fucked up and they do really creepy crazy shows. So who knows what the situation was with the camera?

 

Speaker 3 23:18

I can’t even imagine doing that with your phone, much less a big giant. Well, what’s a phone? Yeah, right, yeah. I mean, that’s the- 89. Yeah.

 

Speaker 2 23:29

It’s not that hard to film yourself having sex with a phone, I mean that’s…

 

Speaker 3 23:33

No, no, but that’s what I’m saying it wasn’t a phone

 

Speaker 1 23:39

She said it phone and then I was like but also these cameras, you know, he’s got a tripod like

 

Speaker 3 23:45

Who’s the gaffer? I’m going to rape, but hold on just a second. Why? Like, what the? But anyway, it’s weird. I assume he is a auto -pig. He’s a fucking pig. Let’s all agree. He’s a fucking pig. And did you see pictures of him?

 

Speaker 3 23:59

I found a picture of him.

 

Speaker 2 24:01

No, I couldn’t find any photos.

 

Speaker 3 24:03

I did and let me tell you he looks like a fucking disgusting child rapist. He really does I mean, I just there is a look I think I need to take a breath

 

Speaker 2 24:14

Yeah, but anyway, so this is a scene, right? So this is where we’re at in 1989. The family is being torn apart by both the allegations and the fact that, like, bail’s being posted by the father of the girl who’s being raped by the brother.

 

Speaker 2 24:26

Like, the mother’s taken sides. So, so the Joan and the girls are like, we need to get out of here. And this, so this trip to Florida isn’t just a, as Kim said, it’s, you know, a mental health break.

 

Speaker 2 24:38

It’s also meant to be an opportunity to start healing, especially for Michelle, the young girl here who’s been the victim of a sexual assault. So it’s an opportunity to get away and just like have a different change of pace, you know, be somewhere fun and just at least start the healing process, right?

 

Speaker 3 24:56

so much to process because when you consider too that her grandmother has essentially turned on her and is now saying

 

Speaker 1 25:03

Oh, that’s all fucked up. They’re all, they’re all fucked up. So at least they get to go to Florida and have a nice trip, right? Oh, well, correct.

 

Speaker 3 25:08

They, they do. They do.

 

Speaker 2 25:10

They go to Disney World, SeaWorld, Silver Springs. Yeah, they have a great time. The girls have a great time. They take tons of photos of their time together.

 

Speaker 1 25:22

That’s great. Okay, so well, thanks for joining us on Slaycation. Yeah. No, no, no, there’s more. Oh, but wait, there’s more.

 

Speaker 3 25:31

Yes. So the brother was charged with sexual assault. The rape of his ex -girlfriend was given a sentence of seven to twenty -five years. They dropped the charges of his assault on his niece. Wait, what?

 

Speaker 2 25:45

Yeah, he he pled out they agreed if he pled guilty by reason of I think passion or insanity some crazy thing That they agreed if you pled out and took seven to twenty five years. They would drop all the other charges

 

Speaker 1 25:59

You know, regardless, like whether the years work out or whatever, it just feels like morally and ethically and like you’d want to be, you know, charge him for the niece and let the other one be the one, like, you know, he assaulted his ex -girlfriend or whatever, like the niece thing, you know, it’s an underage girl, it’s a relative, like, yeah, like charge him for that.

 

Speaker 1 26:24

Yeah. We try

 

Speaker 2 26:25

to figure out why the plea went this way because we agree. I mean, that seems like what he should have been charged for. Unfortunately, this is the late 80s. There just isn’t, you know, I think short of us literally going to Ohio and starting to go through boxes of stuff.

 

Speaker 2 26:39

Right. We just couldn’t find out why this was the way the plea plea went or even why he why he was allowed to play out. Right. So, but I totally agree. Also, seven to.

 

Speaker 1 26:50

25 that’s a big spread. That’s a big difference

 

Speaker 2 26:53

Seven years and it’s almost the same spread of girls that he likes to date Ages of girls

 

Speaker 1 27:01

25 way too old. Oh, well, maybe I guess his girlfriend ex -girlfriend. This guy sucks. Okay, so

 

Speaker 3 27:09

Indeed. After all this madness, you know, a vacation. But they have a good vacation. Yes. It’s what they need. Do they have to go back?

 

Speaker 1 27:17

Do they even have to go back? Yeah.

 

Speaker 3 27:19

Yes, they have a farm and they’re all a part of running that farm. And that’s why Hal unfortunately could not go and someone needed to stay man the farm. And plus Hal figured it would be nice for- Well, time with his brother.

 

Speaker 3 27:35

He figured it would be nice for his wife and daughters to have some time together and joy girls trip. Right.

 

Speaker 1 27:42

Of course. I mean, it feels like they were also leaving.

 

Speaker 2 27:46

They needed to leave. I think they leave him too. I mean, the way it gets spun in the stories a lot is that idea that like he had to stay on the farm. I suspect that Joan was like, we need to get away from you and your brother and your crazy mother and the whole family.

 

Speaker 1 28:03

Kim is like, I can relate, no, Kim can relate so hard to all of them.

 

Speaker 3 28:08

That’s not true. I love you, Dana.

 

Speaker 2 28:13

What are you doing right now? I don’t know.

 

Speaker 3 28:16

They had planned the vacation for weeks. They thought about going to Gettysburg, Virginia, but ultimately chose Florida. As Jerry mentioned, this was the very first time that the girls- Did off the farm.

 

Speaker 3 28:30

Yeah, and away on vacation. How long was the trip? It was going to be about a week. On May 25th, 1989, Michelle says goodbye to her boyfriend. They have a little emotional, you know, I love you, I love you, you know.

 

Speaker 3 28:49

And on May 26th, 1989, at about noon, Joe, Michelle, and Christy pack up the 1986 light blue Oldsmobile Callias and begin the four hour journey. What was that car? I don’t know if I’m saying it right.

 

Speaker 3 29:10

I don’t think it’s Oldsmobile. I’m just going to say Oldsmobile.

 

Speaker 2 29:16

make was, but it was a light blue Olds. I just heard him say a word. I’ve never heard of it. Kaleis, Kalei, I don’t know how to say it either. Yeah, but it might be a cutlass. I don’t know. No. It’s an Oldsmobile.

 

Speaker 2 29:29

Do they even still make Oldsmobiles? I don’t think so. That’s a car my grandparents had at one point. When it’s got old in the title. Olds.

 

Speaker 1 29:36

You’re already like, I’m old and mobile. Yeah, I need an old mobile.

 

Speaker 3 29:44

Yeah, so their journey was pretty much a straight shot on I -75. They stopped and they spent the night in Georgia, got back up early in the morning, and they arrived in Florida. Their first stop was Jacksonville, got their hotel and made their way to the Jacksonville Zoo.

 

Speaker 3 30:02

So they took pictures of the animals and the scenery and then off to Silver Springs, Florida, where they would take a boat tour. One of these glass bottom boat tours. One of those glass bottom boats?

 

Speaker 3 30:16

One of those glass bottom boats. Oh, nice.

 

Speaker 2 30:19

You can see through the bottom into like the stuff underneath the boat like the water and the

 

Speaker 1 30:23

the fish on the eels, the rocks, the sand, anything that’s under the boat, the occasional litter. Right. Dead body floats by. You can see that. Yeah. Great.

 

Speaker 3 30:33

And Joe sent a postcard back home. Yes to how and so now it was May 31st the plan now included Epcot Sea World and MGM Studios, so the Rogers family left Orlando. Yeah and arrived in Tampa on June 1st 1989 Well, they really covering, Florida.

 

Speaker 3 30:55

No, it’s a great. Yeah. No, this was I imagine a magical and fun much -needed respite from home and you know, just a just a way to decompress and Enjoy their time away and together. Yeah So now they were on their way to the next Hotel seen Joe may have likely got turned around on the highway Trying to locate this days in at Rocky Point, which was near the Tampa airport You

 

Speaker 1 31:34

Jerry, do you know the days in Rocky Point?

 

Speaker 2 31:37

don’t okay I know Tampa but I don’t know the days in okay but I know that Joan was lost oh couldn’t

 

Speaker 1 31:45

find. And this is before g

 

Speaker 3 31:47

Right, exactly. And I would constantly be lost if it wasn’t for GPS.

 

Speaker 2 31:53

But I do know Rocky Point is on the Gulf, which is the western side of Florida. And it’s Great Beaches, you know, that’s where they were headed. But yeah, Joan got lost, so she got off the highway, as you would do, before GPS to figure out where am I, ask somebody for help.

 

Speaker 2 32:11

Sure.

 

Speaker 3 32:12

Maybe not even ask, maybe somebody just appeared.

 

Speaker 2 32:16

Well, one can appear and a friendly stranger can appear.

 

Speaker 3 32:19

friendly also from Ohio.

 

Speaker 1 32:22

Or it could be a crocodile or an alligator. So they got lost. They pulled off the highway to ask for directions.

 

Speaker 3 32:29

Yeah, I think they were looking at a map, just get their bearings. Apparently from what I understand about that highway is it very quickly exits. There’s a confusing component.

 

Speaker 2 32:41

Okay. So they get off the interstate because they’re lost. Right. And when they get off the interstate, they meet a stranger, a helpful stranger. Wait. Right. How do you meet a helpful stranger? I believe it was at a gas station.

 

Speaker 2 32:56

Okay. So they pull into a gas station? Yeah. They pulled either as a gas station or somewhere where you would naturally stop. Right. And they… Announce that they’re lost? I mean, I think they probably looked lost or they were asking.

 

Speaker 2 33:09

But, you know…

 

Speaker 3 33:10

Yeah, I’m sure the Ohio plates in the car too may have helped sort of say, we don’t know where the fuck we are.

 

Speaker 1 33:19

Yeah. Right. And it’s that weird car that doesn’t exist except for the light blue volts.

 

Speaker 2 33:23

Right. So so a guy comes over who they don’t know, but she’s being helpful. And he’s being friendly. Turns out he’s from Ohio also. So they have a connection. Oh, you’re from Ohio. You’re from Ohio. They, you know, talk, talk, talk.

 

Speaker 2 33:35

And then Joan explains they’re lost and they’re trying to find this days in on Route 60. And he says, no problem. I know exactly where that is. And he actually takes a brochure that says Boy Scout Columbus.

 

Speaker 2 33:48

I’m not sure what that referred to. I think I think it was like like one of those brochures that you get at like a rest stop with like a local local attractions. And he wrote down directions map on this.

 

Speaker 2 33:59

You know, he wrote on a map that was on this brochure, showed them exactly where it was, drew line from I -275 to their hotel. OK. The other interesting thing is besides giving them these great directions, he says, you know, I’m from Ohio.

 

Speaker 2 34:12

Also, it’s great to meet other people from Ohio. I actually have a boat. If you if you ladies would like to come out on a boat cruise. Oh, no. You’re invited tomorrow night at sunset. Meet me at this location and we can go out on my boat and you can see Tampa Bay and the sunset.

 

Speaker 2 34:31

Right. Which sounds great. And this guy is being super helpful and nice.

 

Speaker 3 34:34

It’s a local. He knows his way around. I mean… Do we know how old the guy is? He’s about in his mid -forties.

 

Speaker 2 34:41

OK, now you are correct in thinking what the fuck, what the fuck? Like, why would you? But that’s only because we’re doing a show called Slaycaation, right? If you weren’t doing the show, right, you might say it’s the sort of kismet that you experience on a vacation where someone’s like, oh, right.

 

Speaker 2 34:58

I’m a local come to this thing and I’ll show you this thing. So you’re not you’re not necessarily, you know, having your alarm bells raised. Right. Also think, although I’m good.

 

Speaker 3 35:08

No, I was going to say also, I think, too, that you’re on vacation, your guard’s down, and also consider that they are typically in a very rural, not a very populated, dense area. So, I imagine that their sensibilities are completely different than…

 

Speaker 1 35:34

Happen and what they’re escaping from I would think that they would be a little more attuned, but also here I’m looking at it like okay. I’m the husband. I’m back on the farm You are the wife off with our daughter and an imaginary second daughter and you call me up and you say hey We got lost, but we met this really nice stranger, and he invited us on his boat And I’m trying to imagine a scenario where I don’t go Don’t go

 

Speaker 2 35:59

you would say don’t go yeah a hundred percent

 

Speaker 3 36:03

You know what? Maybe Hal would have too. I mean- No, no, no, I’m not saying he did say- No, I’m just, you know, I think the mindset honestly was just we are having so much fun. Everybody has been absolutely friendly and awesome and nice to us.

 

Speaker 1 36:22

Right.

 

Speaker 3 36:22

and it just made sense. What a nice way to sort of cap off this great journey, then a ride on a boat. And in fact, one of the last photos on the camera was a picture of the approaching sunset, was a picture of the sunset off the balcony.

 

Speaker 3 36:45

From the boat? No, from the hotel.

 

Speaker 2 36:49

Yes, they checked into the hotel. Okay, so they find the hotel. They find the hotel, they check in, and then they’re gonna go meet this guy two miles away. That same night? Yeah. That same night boat?

 

Speaker 2 36:58

Yeah. No, don’t go, don’t go. Sunset cruise. Right, right. And Joan writes the directions from the motel to the boat ramp on the days in stationary. Like we have all of these little scraps of paper on which she actually notes the description of the boat, what color it is, and all that.

 

Speaker 2 37:16

So they check into the hotel and they head out to meet this man at the boat ramp.

 

Speaker 3 37:24

I figure about between 8 .30 and 9.

 

Speaker 2 37:28

It’s it’s like they’re in Sun like they got a hustle because they’re supposed to get out there for some late sunset

 

Speaker 1 37:34

I guess it’s summer it’s summer. It might have been a little earlier. I don’t know exactly but still but the point is

 

Speaker 2 37:39

They’re meeting this guy for his Sunset Cruise.

 

Speaker 3 37:41

Right.

 

Speaker 4 37:43

So.

 

Speaker 1 37:45

Now on the S .S., what could go wrong? Right.

 

Speaker 3 37:48

Right. And so now it’s June 4th, 1989. Back then, you couldn’t text and say, hey, so we’re going to have some breakfast and then hit the road. Or literally, he’s just like, okay, so here’s when they’re going to come home and I’m going to see them later.

 

Speaker 3 38:08

And then they don’t show. And then consider also that there’s not easy access to phones while, let’s say, you’re in the car driving back. Yeah, you got to call the hotel.

 

Speaker 1 38:26

Am I right? Call from the hotel for $60 a minute, right, right, right. But he was used to them checking in, I’m sure.

 

Speaker 3 38:33

Well, yeah, but I think, you know, at this point it was like, you know what, she was due back to work. She’s pedal to the metal, on the road, got to get back.

 

Speaker 1 38:43

Right. He doesn’t hear anything from them. He doesn’t hear anything from them. And it’s past the date they’re supposed to be back.

 

Speaker 3 38:49

It’s getting getting later and later and later and and to the point where he starts to become concerned and starts reaching out to family members that he’s still speaking to and friends and you know nobody has has heard anything.

 

Speaker 2 39:05

And interesting side note, just to go back to something Adam had asked earlier, which is, do they have to go back to the farm, given everything that’s going on with the family? Yeah, you’d wonder. You’d wonder, right?

 

Speaker 2 39:16

So so how he actually assumed at first, initially, that that’s exactly what happened. He thought that Joan had taken the girls and that she wasn’t coming back. He thought they deserted him. So that was his initial assumption.

 

Speaker 2 39:30

That was his sort of panic, reaching out to people like, have you heard from them? Where are they? You know, he wasn’t necessarily thinking something bad had happened that he thought they’d left him.

 

Speaker 2 39:42

Right, right. He didn’t initially call the police because he he he really given given everything that had happened with him and the brother and the mother and the sexual assault stuff like he just he just assumed that that his wife and daughters had up and left him.

 

Speaker 3 39:57

Now maybe she was like, we gotta get away from these crazy people. So the housekeeper at the days in began to notice that there was no activity. Everything in this room remained untouched. Room 251, days in, and she went to her manager, and the manager called authorities, and this would be June 8th.

 

Speaker 2 40:23

And just to just to put one point in there, on June 6th, which is a couple of days after this trip to the Sunset Cruise, how how Rogers did actually call the Van Wert County Sheriff back in Ohio and say, I’m worried.

 

Speaker 2 40:37

Right. The problem with the Van Wert County Sheriff is that this is the same police department that’s been dealing with the brother. Also, turns out, Joan, the wife had had some affairs that people knew about.

 

Speaker 2 40:53

There had been some. Basically, what’s that out, honey?

 

Speaker 4 40:58

See?

 

Speaker 2 40:59

Just it’s just a side and it’s not an important point other than to say that the sheriff in Van Wert County was not immediately alarmed either. Right. Because their thought was they’re probably just taking either longer to come back because they just need some space or maybe they have left this guy like they know that this family is a mess.

 

Speaker 2 41:22

Right. So.

 

Speaker 3 41:24

I mean, and definitely I actually didn’t know about the affairs, but it makes sense in retrospect.

 

Speaker 2 41:31

Yeah, and that’s according to what I what I read from the from the sheriff’s office. Like this was their explanation Was knowing all of these things about her and the family and everything that this was like

 

Speaker 3 41:40

why they were not immediately alarmed.

 

Speaker 2 41:43

Right. They were concerned. They’re police.

 

Speaker 1 41:45

They weren’t like… With their history, I feel like it should be the opposite. Like they should be very alarmed because there’s a lot of shit going on with these people. Well, that’s…

 

Speaker 3 41:54

There’s one way to look at it, you know, but, but, eh, whatever.

 

Speaker 2 41:57

Well, one to that point, the Van Wert County Sheriff did briefly wonder if Hal Rogers should be looked at with suspicion. Exactly. It was that. I think so, yeah. Because they’re missing. Of course.

 

Speaker 1 42:12

Oh, they went on a trip. I don’t know what happened.

 

Speaker 2 42:14

and they haven’t come back so it’s like so so nobody you know just given everything going on with the craziness in this family nobody’s really like there’s no like fire lit under anyone to think

 

Speaker 1 42:25

that. Yeah, no, it’s funny. I would I would think the other guy think you’d have a second phone just for this family. Yeah, that’s a anyway. That’s all right. So he so right, right. So in Ohio, right.

 

Speaker 3 42:38

And so the there’s a sailboat called the amber waves that does journeys to Key West and then back Okay, and it was on such a boat that passengers Noticed Oh boy a semi nude body Floating in the water just underneath the sunshine skyway bridge in Tampa she was found floating face down in the water and with her arms with her arms back hogtied and blindfolded with duct tape or rather Face covered in with duct tape right mouth covered Jesus duct tape And this is off that sailboat.

 

Speaker 3 43:26

Yeah. Well, they noticed it passengers. I guess better

 

Speaker 1 43:29

that than the glass -bottom boat, but I could already feel my bum writing an angry letter.

 

Speaker 2 43:34

I’m writing an angry letter.

 

Speaker 3 43:37

Another body just north of the first one was noticed by another sailboat and just a few hundred yards away.

 

Speaker 1 43:45

up and all that. Yeah. Wasp -bound feet.

 

Speaker 3 43:48

bound. Each body was tied to a cinder block or a concrete.

 

Speaker 1 43:57

Then how are they floating?

 

Speaker 2 43:59

decomposition yeah causes gas to form the body fills the body with gas

 

Speaker 3 44:04

And it was warm, right

 

Speaker 1 44:06

Gotcha. So, okay.

 

Speaker 3 44:09

So, the Coast Guard would meet the police back at the dock. They conducted a preliminary examination of the already bloated and decomposing bodies.

 

Speaker 1 44:21

And all three were found? Yeah. Jesus.

 

Speaker 3 44:24

Yeah. And concrete blocks had been tied around their necks and their mouths were covered with duct tape. And the Oldsmobile was found locked on the Causeway boat ramp. Beside the car were a puzzle book, deck of cards, the game Uno, a half -eaten chocolate bar, and a brochure for Clearwater Beach.

 

Speaker 3 44:52

Ugh, this broke my heart. In commemoration of the cows that they love, a little cow toy, you know, stuck on the rear view mirror. Anyway, so they found the bodies, the autopsy, the postmortem exam, the ME couldn’t really determine the cause of death.

 

Speaker 3 45:12

In other words, there was water in the lungs, which is usually drowning. Yeah. Right. But it could have also been a fixation from having their mouths covered. I mean, and also the environment of the water also undermines any clues or the work of the ME trying to determine cause of death and what happened.

 

Speaker 3 45:40

And so now we have a triple murder or a triple death. Well, let’s say triple murder because yeah, it’s pretty true.

 

Speaker 1 45:51

think what else you would need to make it a murder it’s pretty cool it’s a murder people tied up and thrown into a thing with cinderblock

 

Speaker 3 45:59

And so a task force of about two dozen were comprised of investigators from Tampa, St. Petersburg, Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the Florida Marine Patrol.

 

Speaker 1 46:16

So, everybody’s.

 

Speaker 3 46:17

Everybody’s now trying to figure out what happened here. Investigators noted on the other side of the Tampa Bay map, where the vehicle was located, was handwritten instructions. So they came upon those handwritten instructions.

 

Speaker 3 46:33

Right, you said that earlier. And had to get to the… To the boat. To the… To the… To the… To the dock, or whatever. Right, and to the hotel. Right. And at this point, investigators had been to the hotel, had dusted for fingerprints, and was able to connect the women found in the water to the people that were staying at room 251 days in.

 

Speaker 3 47:02

Who had probably already been reported.

 

Speaker 1 47:04

missing by the hotel people, right?

 

Speaker 2 47:08

They’d called it and they weren’t worried. Yeah. The task force is trying to figure out what’s going on. Who did it? There is zero. There’s no breaks in this case, right? They can’t they can’t figure out.

 

Speaker 2 47:22

What the maps mean, you know, in terms of who they met. Right. There’s no because because this is before cell phones. There’s no, you know, tracking, there’s no tracking and saying, oh, that cell phone met them at the dock.

 

Speaker 2 47:33

So it must be that guy. There’s nothing.

 

Speaker 1 47:35

Right and we’re looking at this case with hindsight. So it’s like in the moment. It’s like you got three out of towners Show up. How do they wind up? Yeah, they’re dead in the water

 

Speaker 3 47:46

This is involving strangers are typically very hard to…

 

Speaker 1 47:51

Yeah, all the suspects are back in Ohio, like all the usual suspects, and they’re all suspects.

 

Speaker 3 47:56

Yeah, they were being looked at.

 

Speaker 2 47:58

They’re looking at John, of course, the brother, the rapist, they’re looking at the dad. But nobody’s seen them with anybody. Nobody knows them. They met this guy at a dock that wasn’t a heavily populated dock, so there’s no eyewitnesses saying, oh yeah, I saw these three women get on this guy’s boat.

 

Speaker 2 48:17

So it’s a leadless investigation. I mean, there’s just nothing. And of course they set up a tip line, which immediately starts getting crazy numbers of tips. I think at one point they were up to over 1 ,500 tips over the course of a year.

 

Speaker 1 48:35

Right. But all these tips are not yielding any.

 

Speaker 2 48:39

So the the investigators have a have an interesting someone on the and I couldn’t figure out who it was Who had this idea? but one of the members of the task force says well the only Identifying thing we have about whoever killed these women are these notes on the brochures.

 

Speaker 2 48:59

Yes, that’s a

 

Speaker 3 49:01

there did come a point where they began to realize that that was going to lead them to answers.

 

Speaker 2 49:10

that these these notes right the the notes saying here’s how to get to the hotel from the highway and then here’s how to get from the hotel to the boat right

 

Speaker 3 49:18

and their car was

 

Speaker 2 49:19

there and the car was there so they knew that whoever wrote this note was the person that invited them on the boat so they they have this idea let’s take the handwritten notes and blow them up onto the size of billboards and put these billboards all over Tampa where the guy theoretically lives or at least did this and see if anyone recognizes the handwriting oh wow and my

 

Speaker 3 49:43

Mind you, it was three years there was no movement on the case. I mean, the case sat cold for a while, and that task force was disbanded, and now we were down to just two investigators. It was an investigator from St.

 

Speaker 3 49:59

Petersburg. He had come upon a bulletin from Florida’s Department of Law Enforcement, and it addressed a rape that occurred approximately two weeks before the murders of these women. And the rape was, there was two Canadian tourists.

 

Speaker 3 50:25

Both women. Right. One of them went on a boat with a man who chatted them up at a local 7 -Eleven. It was like, hey, I have a boat. Want to see the sunset, bring a camera? It was interesting because they had gone on two boat rides with them.

 

Speaker 3 50:41

And the first one, a woman by the name of Judy Blair and her friend Barbara Matrum. Barbara hung back and was not interested in going on a boat ride. And her friend went and was uneventful. It was pretty.

 

Speaker 2 50:57

And this was a morning boat trip right right nothing goes wrong

 

Speaker 3 51:02

Right right and she’s like the setup right and he says hey next time let’s do a sunset and bring your girl like he was like get your friend to come only Judy returns and Barbara friend was like

 

Speaker 2 51:17

Yeah. I still add it to it.

 

Speaker 1 51:19

Now, I gotta say, as a friend, don’t let your friend go on boat rides with strangers. Yeah, that’s just a bad idea. You shouldn’t separate. It does feel like a bad idea. However- It feels like it-

 

Speaker 3 51:30

One friend doesn’t want to go, you have to just be like, yeah, you know what?

 

Speaker 2 51:33

What you should do is just neither of you go. Yeah, that’s what I mean. Separating, in this case, actually probably saved both of their lives. Saved both their lives?

 

Speaker 1 51:41

Yeah, because.

 

Speaker 3 51:43

Well, the thing was, was that … Oh, the girl gets away. Well, here’s what happens, okay? This is what happened. All right. You don’t know what I mean. So, she gets on the boat, and at first it’s kind of pretty.

 

Speaker 3 51:55

I mean, they’re looking at the sunset, they’re making idle chitchat, and … They were doing a podcast on the boat? I know, isn’t it crazy?

 

Speaker 1 52:03

That’s crazy. Okay. All right. So, right. Everything’s fine. Everything’s fine. Until…

 

Speaker 3 52:08

and then the sunset, darkness falls, suddenly the mood shifts and he starts coming on to her.

 

Speaker 1 52:17

Is this kind of like a werewolf? Like the sun, like the moon comes out and he… Well, there’s something. He’s a fucking animal. Yeah. So clearly.

 

Speaker 3 52:24

So he attacks the girl so he rapes her yes, and there’s some reports that said he had her swim to shore But she escapes Honestly, the only reason she escapes is because her friend could identify him and her friend didn’t go and Her friend would know oh

 

Speaker 2 52:44

friend had gone on the boat he would have killed them both right because the friend wasn’t there he sexually assaulted this girl but brings her back to shore so he can’t be accused of murder but can he

 

Speaker 1 52:56

to be accused of rape? Well,

 

Speaker 2 52:59

He, yes, he could be, he could be, but he was sort of counting on this awful, this is a thing that happens here in a lot of sexual assault cases, and you can, like a bully with a disability thing. A lot of women tend not to report these things.

 

Speaker 2 53:16

And especially back then, there was even more stigma attached to it. Right, definitely. You can talk a little bit about that from working with domestic violence victims, but that’s the thing that happens.

 

Speaker 2 53:28

And I think some men- Well, sexual abuse.

 

Speaker 3 53:30

Like it’s a part of it. I mean even today women will not report But she told her

 

Speaker 1 53:37

friend, I’m sure.

 

Speaker 3 53:38

She did she told a friend and they did go to the police and report. Yes, and the police didn’t believe it or no They did they took it seriously. I mean described him very clearly, right?

 

Speaker 2 53:50

even in his car. But again, the problem is because she waited a day to go, the forensics were gone. Like you can’t collect samples at that point. So unfortunately, as horrible as it is, if you are sexually assaulted, the best thing to do is to immediately go to the police and it’s unbelievably traumatic.

 

Speaker 2 54:11

It’s horrible, but you need to go so they can collect evidence.

 

Speaker 3 54:16

to keep all that ick on you. What did come out of this horrible encounter was a very good composite sketch of that guy. Of course, initially, it didn’t yield any suspects.

 

Speaker 2 54:40

But this investigator, now with this triple murder, sees this case of these two Canadian women.

 

Speaker 3 54:50

and says. The similarities.

 

Speaker 2 54:52

Sounds familiar, like a guy, a sunset cruise, a boat.

 

Speaker 1 54:56

Oh, so wait the guy when he you know, he’s actually supposed to girl like she can’t even say his name or anything Like they don’t even know who it is. They just have a random. Yeah

 

Speaker 3 55:04

He gave his name, it was David Posner.

 

Speaker 1 55:07

Posner. Yeah, OK. But he’s putting his boat in a different place and he’s, you know, obviously they don’t get back to the same dock and the boat’s there.

 

Speaker 2 55:15

right there’s no they don’t go back and see the right I see I see okay so they just have a rental and the other thing is the pictures that there was pictures that they took of them on the boat took the camera and threw it in the water overboard so there was no photos of him or the boat right

 

Speaker 3 55:31

Pro. She reported too that he started to stammer and at one point he threw up on the side of the boat. I don’t know what that was about, but he did let her go, ultimately.

 

Speaker 2 55:43

Right. So now what you have. So now you have the this rape on this boat that that all of the all of the details sound very similar to what happened to these three women that we know had gone for a sense.

 

Speaker 2 55:56

We know that they had gone for a cruise. Oh, that was the other thing is the University of Tampa was able to quickly figure out using weather patterns and right. And where the patterns jumped into the bodies were not thrown off a bridge.

 

Speaker 2 56:10

They were able to determine that they had to have come off of a boat. Right. Right. So now the cops know this happened at sunset. There’s this other case. Right. I hate to ask.

 

Speaker 1 56:19

This question, but like when they had the bodies recovered the bodies of the three of them Could they tell if they were sexually assaulted?

 

Speaker 3 56:25

They could tell, they suspected, and again, because it was in the body where D -Comp had set in and water compromises, but they were semi -new.

 

Speaker 1 56:41

internal injuries or or you couldn’t even tell from that no they

 

Speaker 3 56:44

At that time, I think by the time with… I gotcha, I gotcha. Okay, I was just curious. Okay, I think strongly…

 

Speaker 2 56:49

based on the circumstances and the clothing. They believe that they were.

 

Speaker 3 56:54

Oh, sexually? Of course.

 

Speaker 2 56:56

So, the police with this case with the Canadians, the more they looked into it, because they couldn’t find a record of anyone named Dave Posner with a boat, they couldn’t find anyone named Dave Posner at all.

 

Speaker 2 57:08

They couldn’t find him. He said he was a nurse. They find no person with this name who’s a nurse. The more stuff that comes up empty, the more the cops are like, this guy is the guy, right? Because he’s giving fake names.

 

Speaker 2 57:20

So, where we’re at now is we know that these three women were murdered on a boat. We have this guy who did a similar Sunset Cruise, raped, probably was going to murder this other woman on a boat, but what we have now is a composite sketch of the guy, right?

 

Speaker 2 57:38

And we have an identified vehicle, which is a Suzu Jeep or something. Jeep Cherokee. So, there’s more information about the Canadian, the guy who raped this Canadian woman, but the cops think this might be connected to what happens to these three women from Ohio.

 

Speaker 3 57:59

And the investigators had even, they had shared their case files with an FBI profiler who determined that it was likely male who is above average in intelligence, charismatic, charming, with good social skills, affluent, presents well like a regular guy, and blends into his surroundings.

 

Speaker 3 58:21

So definitely.

 

Speaker 1 58:23

Definitely not me. Okay, good. I’m off the hook.

 

Speaker 3 58:28

There was a neighbor of the suspect who recognized the composite and said, hey, that looks like my neighbor and was resistant to sort of, you know, call it out, like call the investigators and be like, I think it’s my neighbor down the, and she ended up speaking to a classmate of hers.

 

Speaker 3 58:51

She was taking a college course and there was a sheriff deputy in the same class with her and she had shared her suspicions with him and, you know, he listened, but nothing ever came out of that.

 

Speaker 1 59:09

tricky, right? You got a picture, like a composite, you don’t even know how accurate that is. And then, oh, it kind of looks like we saw people that we.

 

Speaker 3 59:19

composite of somebody. I was like, Adam, come in here. Right.

 

Speaker 1 59:24

like a friend of ours and it’s like

 

Speaker 3 59:26

Was like the most bizarre exactly like he came in and he said oh that’s

 

Speaker 2 59:32

Yeah, yeah, so anyway well just just also just a timeline thing because these things take forever, right? These investigations just go on and on sure this is we’re now Three years later. Yeah, right.

 

Speaker 2 59:43

So yeah, they’ve got you know, they put out these composites. They’ve gotten literally like 1 ,600 leads and It was I think in 1992 when they decided to put the handwriting right billboards. Okay, so this is like well

 

Speaker 3 59:59

First, it was a picture of the three women, and in red letters said, who killed the Rogers family? Oh, shit. And then the county commissioner had suggested, why not add that handwriting sample? Okay.

 

Speaker 3 01:00:17

I was wondering who it was.

 

Speaker 2 01:00:18

It was because it’s a genius idea. Yeah, it really

 

Speaker 1 01:00:21

What was the purpose of the first billboard? Who killed the Rogers fan? Like somebody’s just gonna like admit it? Well, you know. No, it was me. Like otherwise, how would anybody know?

 

Speaker 2 01:00:30

You know, you say that, but actually at that point, right, it’s already three years in, there was a bunch of people who did know, and we’ll get into that. But it’s hard to keep that a secret. Like if you’re…

 

Speaker 1 01:00:43

I mean, I used to see about keeping it alive in the in the in the minds of everybody to try to find this

 

Speaker 2 01:00:49

if you if you murder people and you come home people are going to people who are close to you and this is what happens in this case we’ll get into it but people who are close to you are probably going to notice that you’ve changed it’s very unless you’re

 

Speaker 1 01:01:03

Like I was gonna say these people though are psychopaths these people are sociopaths that they

 

Speaker 3 01:01:09

Yeah, but maybe you’re really exhausted and like, why are you so tired? Like, what the?

 

Speaker 2 01:01:13

You’re not sleeping. Maybe you.

 

Speaker 3 01:01:16

You make an aside to a coworker and you’re like, I have a date with three women. Like what?

 

Speaker 1 01:01:23

That’s what I mean, but yeah, if everybody that’s tired or you know, feels a little weird if I thought they were

 

Speaker 3 01:01:29

a composite sketch of somebody who, you know, you start to connect the dots. The composite sketch, yes.

 

Speaker 1 01:01:35

If the person lives in the community and it seems like this guy lived around there like you figure somebody would Recognize it but when you said that somebody did

 

Speaker 3 01:01:43

neighbor well the neighbor recognized the composite sketch and had mentioned it to this to to a classmate right a deputy nothing came of it and she kind of figured you know maybe maybe they didn’t find anything maybe

 

Speaker 2 01:02:00

The problem is they have so many leads. They’re getting like a lead a day, which is a lot, like it’s a lot to keep. So people want to solve this thing. Everybody wants to solve this. This is a horrible, horrible murder.

 

Speaker 2 01:02:10

Of course, yeah. And it’s like everybody wants to solve it. But when you’ve got 14, 1500 leads and you have to follow up on all of them, like yes, you could tell the deputy, your friend, I recognize this guy, he’s my neighbor.

 

Speaker 2 01:02:21

They might take them a month or two to, or three or four months to even get to that. So.

 

Speaker 3 01:02:27

Now it’s time is a ticking. They decide, okay, they put it in the media.

 

Speaker 1 01:02:36

The handwriting the handwriting sample is in the media and on billboards and on billboards all around Tampa and somebody recognized and

 

Speaker 3 01:02:42

That same woman that noticed the composite looking very eerily the neighbor. Mm -hmm. Yes Had reached out to another neighbor and essentially said That neighbor of ours. Did he do any work? Mm -hmm Would you happen to have I don’t know a receipt or a contract and the neighbors like, you know, I think I might Let me look She goes and voila she finds a Receipt or a contract with very similar looking hand, right?

 

Speaker 2 01:03:24

Nice. And this is in this is March 25th 1992. Right. This is lead number one thousand seven one thousand five hundred and seven. And this woman says two houses over this boat and truck matches the description of the boat and truck that that were involved in this whole situation.

 

Speaker 1 01:03:46

guy really just hung around huh he really thought he could hide in plain sight mm -hmm what a fucking that’s what I’m saying like that’s the sociopath mindset it is but they’re that

 

Speaker 2 01:03:55

actually even more he actually moved oh he not only moved there’s actually surprisingly a lot more to this I think this could be a two -parter yeah

 

Speaker 3 01:04:08

I guess this is imparted. And I’m exhausted. All right. Well, you need to…

 

Speaker 1 01:04:12

have a coffee girl because we got more. Yeah. Yes. Holy shit. Yes. You got the sleigh. Next week you’ll get the staycation. So thank you for listening. Be sure to subscribe and leave us a five star review if you like what you hear and we’ll catch you on the next.