Ep. 13 The Shove Boat

Speaker 1 00:00

Let me know when you’re ready, honey. I’m ready. Oh, sorry. Put your pants on.

 

Speaker 2 00:06

Oh fuck my pants are off again. Back on. The back of my pants is back on.

 

Speaker 1 00:13

wearing those pants that have the like the two buttons yeah a little flap little flap yeah they call that the

 

Speaker 2 00:23

all the

 

Speaker 1 00:24

Don’t it’s a callback

 

Speaker 2 00:32

That was the intro and I’m going to cut it right.

 

Speaker 1 00:47

Pack your body bags, we’re going on a slaycation. Of course, this is the show about murders and mysterious deaths that happen on vacation. I’m your host, Adam Tex Davis. And as always, I’m joined by my favorite two people in the world, I’ve got my wife, Kim.

 

Speaker 1 01:05

Hello, hello, hello. And my producing partner and good buddy, Jerry. Hello. Also to reiterate, you know, the way it works is I don’t know anything about the case. Sometimes I know the headline. Sometimes I know less.

 

Speaker 1 01:21

In this case, I know nothing. And so I’ll be learning right along with you. The listener is sort of like a proxy and very excited.

 

Speaker 2 01:31

How do you how do you avoid knowing anything about these cases given that you live with with Kim?

 

Speaker 1 01:36

I mean, it is actually harder for Kim because

 

Speaker 3 01:39

Yeah, it’s tough because I want to talk about it like I’ll come upon something and I’m like, oh my god

 

Speaker 2 01:45

Oh, you can always call me. Call me. I’ll always the crazy. I love talking about it. Thank you. Okay, good You’ve got me. I don’t like this. You know, I don’t I both don’t like true crime, but I’m kind of hooked on it now

 

Speaker 3 01:58

I can only see the look in Kim’s eye too.

 

Speaker 1 02:02

She comes downstairs and she’s like looking at me and I could see she wants to talk about it But she can’t right and it’s actually really funny, you know watching Watching my right. Yeah We have these funny

 

Speaker 2 02:15

Like what is up with this crazy shit? She’s like true I will say that from as someone who is just I’m fascinated by psychology and Neuroscience and the way the human mind works What doesn’t work? It doesn’t work.

 

Speaker 2 02:28

We’ve actually done a bunch of TV shows about this that angle of these stories has gotten me hooked And like just how our brains are capable of just really Crazy horrible stuff. I mean it’s and this particular case that we’re getting into is is both is both horrible stuff And it’s also just literally crazy crazy, right?

 

Speaker 2 02:46

insanity crazy

 

Speaker 3 02:48

people are out to lunch. Breakout. I love lunch. The anti -psychotic medication because yeah maybe we should just all be on that.

 

Speaker 1 02:59

Well, let’s pack our bags and and do it, right? Let’s let’s pack our let’s pack our lunch. Where are we slicating today?

 

Speaker 2 03:10

So, let’s actually start the story seven weeks before the 1979 siege of the American Embassy in Iran, when a young American fell into a life -threatening ordeal of torture and brutality, secretly held hostage by our ally, the State of Israel.

 

Speaker 3 03:26

Ah. Say.

 

Speaker 2 03:28

That’s not a good vacation. No, it’s really not a good vacation. In the waning autumn light of 1979, the world’s gaze was fixated on the simmering tensions in Iran. In a quiet American home, Scott Rostin, who was a young man, was making plans that would unwittingly entangle him in an international web of deceit and tragedy.

 

Speaker 2 03:51

That would reverberate for years.

 

Speaker 1 03:53

Stick on why are you guys talking like that? It’s like I’m hanging out with the dictionary or the encyclopedia

 

Speaker 2 04:01

So what’s going on? So the Israeli government extends an invitation to Scott and says, would you like to come over here and open a health clinic? The Israeli embassy reaches out and says, would you like to come open?

 

Speaker 2 04:11

He believes it’s the Israeli embassy, reaches out and says, we need to open health clinics in Israel. You’re a chiropractor. Come over here and open a health clinic. Help us.

 

Speaker 1 04:24

Right. So we’re going to assume chiropractic chiropractic chiropractic is

 

Speaker 2 04:30

Chiropractic is actual medical. Well whether you assume chiropractic is actual medical or not one thing We do know is that Scott had studied chiropractic, but was not actually licensed chiropractor So whatever your feelings about chiropractic are he was not technically a chiropractor so therefore

 

Speaker 1 04:48

Right, so he wasn’t even a legitimate doctor.

 

Speaker 2 04:52

So he goes with his parents to Israel at the invitation of Israel to open his health clinic, which they see as a great opportunity because he’s not licensed in the United States. They like the idea of being in Israel.

 

Speaker 2 05:06

They get, they like this. This whole thing feels like a new beginning for Scott, or a good beginning for Scott. So in 1979. How old is he again? He’s in his 20s at that point. So they go to Israel.

 

Speaker 1 05:18

He wasn’t a chiropractor, what was he? He was a…

 

Speaker 2 05:21

He was trained to be a chiropractor, but he was not yet licensed. Gotcha. They get to Israel, and according to Scott in his book that he later publishes called Nightmare in Israel. Called Not A Chiropractor.

 

Speaker 2 05:35

According to Scott, when he gets to Israel, he realizes it was not the Israeli government or diplomats that invited him, but a crazy, Hasidic Israeli person pretending to be a government official. Who had a bad back?

 

Speaker 1 05:48

Hahahaha

 

Speaker 2 05:52

maybe instead of being put up in this beautiful apartment they were expecting him and his parents are put into this horrible like rundown basically slum the health clinic fails to materialize and instead scott is they demand this guy who’s brought him over demands that scott marry this this woman try to force us into this marriage and neighbors neighbors knees or something right yes and scott uh as he tells it says no why not because it’s against

 

Speaker 3 06:26

to his principles. It’s not love, I don’t know.

 

Speaker 2 06:30

I’m an unlicensed chiropractor with a license to love, but that would be hell to pay, hell to pay. So he refuses. He is then so he backed out. He backs out, but he is then accused of committing a burglary.

 

Speaker 2 06:43

He had nothing to do with. He is then placed into the Israeli criminal justice system where he is swiftly brutally imprisoned. He realizes his only hope to get out of this prison is to pretend to be crazy, which he does and say he pretends to be insane and starts acting like an eight -year -old girl speaking in the voice of an eight -year -old girl child and sucking his thumb constantly, at which point they put him in an Israeli mental institution.

 

Speaker 2 07:07

Okay, time out. What?

 

Speaker 1 07:13

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, he gets a random email or a call, what is it, apparently you got a call? Tear scott. Right, a call. This never happens.

 

Speaker 2 07:24

but it turns out we have a need in Israel for an unlicensed chiropractor. Such is yourself.

 

Speaker 1 07:30

and he and he went with his parents yes and one of his parents

 

Speaker 2 07:34

What are his parents doing during this? They are- With him. They’re just there. No, they went to Israel. Right. So he gets arrested? Oh yeah, definitely got arrested and he definitely went to jail. None of this, I don’t think any of this actually happened.

 

Speaker 2 07:49

Oh, wait, what? This is the backstory of Scott Rostin. Scott Rostin, and he wrote a book about this. He did write a book. I’m gonna show you the cover of the book. This is all very, very important information for this story.

 

Speaker 2 08:03

So Scott-

 

Speaker 1 08:03

This is just the background to a later Slaycation.

 

Speaker 2 08:05

This sounds so on the money for right now. I’m so sorry, I apologize in advance to anyone. This is triggering for, but before the spying, before the hostages, and before the terrorism, nightmare in Israel.

 

Speaker 2 08:16

Oh boy. So this is our book cover of Scott’s book. He wrote about his 1978, 1979 experience. It’s a crudely drawn image of, I’m gonna say Israelis who look like their pictures were taken off of Nazi propaganda based on the size of their noses, holding this man down, who is apparently Scott and brutalizing him.

 

Speaker 2 08:37

Oh, okay.

 

Speaker 1 08:38

So, but they don’t have anything. It looks like they’re just like tickling them or something Tickle torture. Yeah, tickle torture is real. That’s what they do. Okay, hold on. All right, so

 

Speaker 2 08:49

Ask your questions

 

Speaker 1 08:51

Uh, no, I don’t know.

 

Speaker 2 08:53

What? Do you need a minute?

 

Speaker 1 08:55

I I’ve never seen you so flummoxed on the show. I yeah, it’s it’s uh, Where did he get the idea? I’m gonna be an eight -year -old girl

 

Speaker 2 09:03

suck my thumb he was in his cell in jail and he says that he he realized the only way out was would be to play crazy into a mental institution gotcha okay

 

Speaker 1 09:14

That is a very interesting choice, we’ll say that. As an actor, he made an interesting choice.

 

Speaker 2 09:20

Did it’s it’s not them not the most interesting choice that he’s gonna make during this. Oh great. Yeah, it’s an interesting choice

 

Speaker 1 09:27

I mean, look, it’s an interesting choice that he would even go and think that this is real. Right. And, you know, okay, so this is all.

 

Speaker 2 09:34

background background so the too long didn’t read the TLDR version of this is unlicensed chiropractor in his 20s in 1979 gets invited to Israel open a health clinic goes over with his parents there is no health clinic so trying to be forced into an arranged marriage he refuses subsequently framed for burglary put in Israeli jail and tortured and then pretends to be eight year old girl sucking his thumb speaking like a little girl to get out of jail

 

Speaker 3 10:00

Right, so just keep that in the back of your mind.

 

Speaker 1 10:03

Okay, I will. I will keep all of it. Nightmare in Israel. Jesus. Okay.

 

Speaker 2 10:10

So now we’re in the 80s. Now we’ve left Israel, we’ve left Israel. Now we are in the 80s. And I just would like to go on record before we go fully into the magical world of the 80s, is that Kim and I have talked about this Israeli story a bunch, this idea that Israel, a crazy orthodox man from Israel, pretended to be a diplomat and invited this guy over and lured him over.

 

Speaker 2 10:34

And his parents were like, this sounds great. My unlicensed chiropractor son’s gonna have a health clinic and a Jerusalem, none of it, it all sounds crazy. It all sounds made up. Even though he ultimately wrote a book about this experience, we’re questioning whether it even happened.

 

Speaker 1 10:52

I mean, there are books in the fiction section.

 

Speaker 3 10:56

Right, but they’re not screaming, it’s nonfiction. Right, right.

 

Speaker 2 10:59

His dust jacket on the book claims that this was such an important incident in terms of Israeli treatment of prisoners that it attracted the attention of Amnesty International and became an international incident.

 

Speaker 2 11:10

That is definitely not true. He believes this is all true. His parents seem to believe it as well. We just give you that as background as we enter the 1980s.

 

Speaker 1 11:25

Okay, I want to make that comment. So basically he’s saying like this is like the midnight express only of Israel and exposing this

 

Speaker 2 11:33

So yeah, it sounds to me like him and his parents went on like a trip to Israel to see the Holy Land and like had A bad time and we’re like we’re gonna burn this place down and write this book, right?

 

Speaker 2 11:41

We’re just gonna make up all this crazy shit like it just doesn’t none of it sounds plausible. Okay, but according to him Yes, it’s like Midnight Express. Gotcha. Okay cut through

 

Speaker 3 11:51

the 80s. Cut to the 80s, and Scott Rostin, a chiropractor, met Karen Waltz, a masseuse or massage therapist. She was employed at a place called Hunter’s Run, which was a resort in Florida somewhere. No, it was actually a resort in Boynton Beach.

 

Speaker 3 12:11

Boynton Beach. Boynton Beach. Boynton Beach. Anyway, he actually had begun seeing Karen as part of his physical therapy regimen following a back injury. He fell down some stairs.

 

Speaker 1 12:24

Oh the chiropractor sees the massage therapist. Yes. Oh, this is like a romantic comedy movie

 

Speaker 3 12:30

Well, you know, where it was, Scott was very taken with a pretty fit and athletic masseuse, whose body very likely reflected her ballet, modern dance, and tai chi training. At the time, Karen was already in a serious long -term relationship with someone, so initially, she didn’t take the flirtatious banter between her and Scott as nothing more than that, and not going anywhere.

 

Speaker 1 13:00

Massage therapists aren’t supposed to really date their clients either. So how old are these people Karen and Scott?

 

Speaker 3 13:07

She’s about 20, in her early to mid 20s and he’s early to mid 30s, maybe 10 years age difference.

 

Speaker 2 13:15

Okay. He does have a chiropractic practice at this point. So he’s successful.

 

Speaker 3 13:20

Scott has life together, where he sees her maybe twice a week for massages and physical as part of his bed. So a legit massage place? Underwear on. Seems Scott had his eyes set on Karen and sometime during the twice weekly session, Scott managed to make clear his interest in Karen as more than a flirty, fun time to be had.

 

Speaker 3 13:47

And she was taken with him as well, and eventually she was likely flattered by the attention of this older, seemingly established and educated gentleman, finally relented. She ended things with her long -term relationship.

 

Speaker 3 14:08

And thus began her whirlwind relationship with Scott. Okay. And, you know, Scott was very flamboyant in his displays of affection and, you know, he took her on fancy trips, bought her nice things, sure she very much enjoyed the wining and dining and the getaways.

 

Speaker 3 14:33

And shortly after they got together, Scott oddly decided to expand on his practice and go to California to open another practice.

 

Speaker 1 14:46

Oh, I thought you were going to say Israel.

 

Speaker 3 14:48

No, not Israel this time. It was California.

 

Speaker 1 14:51

They were originally in Florida, now they’re in California.

 

Speaker 3 14:54

She didn’t go. So now it’s a long distance relationship. For a brief time, they dated long distance and Karen would make the trip to Santa Monica where he was living to visit Scott every available opportunity.

 

Speaker 3 15:13

And in a little under two years from the time that they would meet, would have his massages, presented her much to her absolute delight with a pear -shaped diamond ring and proposed asking Karen to be his wife.

 

Speaker 1 15:36

Okay. Is there a reason you’re making this very dramatic?

 

Speaker 3 15:42

I’m telling you the story.

 

Speaker 1 15:43

Okay, I just I didn’t know if like there was some weird thing

 

Speaker 3 15:46

Look, if you’re hearing it for the first time. I am hearing it for the first time. So anyway, she said yes. Done February 4th, 1988, 26 year old Scott Ralston married 26 year old Karen Waltz. Okay. Sealing the deal and exchanging vows.

 

Speaker 3 16:07

Okay.

 

Speaker 2 16:08

No a rushed ceremony in Las Vegas. Oh Las Vegas, okay

 

Speaker 1 16:16

so they just did a little lopey thing and she wouldn’t have a proper way.

 

Speaker 2 16:18

wedding in June, right?

 

Speaker 3 16:20

Yeah, do the whole like, oh, so it was like wedding dress and whatever it is.

 

Speaker 1 16:26

important to him that he was like.

 

Speaker 2 16:27

Let’s do this now. Let’s go. We’re in California. Let’s go to Vegas. Let’s get married

 

Speaker 3 16:31

Mom, she was shading. Shading Scott. Shading so hard. Because of the elop-

 

Speaker 1 16:41

Oh, or just not in general. Just in general. She played in- Oh.

 

Speaker 2 16:44

In fact, she, moms always know, she said, I don’t trust this guy. She said every hair on his head is perfect, everything’s perfect.

 

Speaker 3 16:55

everything about him. He met her. He presented her with the roses.

 

Speaker 1 17:01

I thought you were going to say that.

 

Speaker 2 17:01

the book no but like it was everything is just like a little corny and too perfect so she actually yeah she didn’t trust him she didn’t trust him she actually took the ring

 

Speaker 3 17:14

Well, she told her daughter, she said, you should have this appraised.

 

Speaker 1 17:17

Yeah. Oh, like you did.

 

Speaker 3 17:20

Who told you that? I’m just kidding, I’m just kidding.

 

Speaker 1 17:24

The guy called he was like, do you want me to tell her the real price or should I make some shit up?

 

Speaker 2 17:29

So she was like, mom was like, this is a beautiful pear shaped diamond, but it might be a cubic zirconia. And was it? It was. Oh, God. Always. No. I was like, that is you running around town, tell everyone you got this beautiful diamond.

 

Speaker 2 17:44

And I don’t think it is. It’s not. And it wasn’t.

 

Speaker 3 17:47

It was a cubic zirconia ring, but fortunately for Scott, she loved it.

 

Speaker 2 17:52

She loved him. And in fact, Scott, during- I thought you could say she-

 

Speaker 1 17:55

I really love a cupid’s so proud of you.

 

Speaker 4 17:58

That’s my favorite

 

Speaker 1 18:00

Fake.

 

Speaker 2 18:03

He actually said she would rather have me and a cubic zirconia than not me and a diamond. Right. Oh, but also like you give someone the ring and you say it’s a diamond engagement ring and it’s not. I don’t know what’s more red flag than that.

 

Speaker 1 18:19

He only sold 18 copies of his book, I mean, it’s uh, that’s so that’s far too generous.

 

Speaker 2 18:26

generous. But we’ll get back to that. I am fixated on this book. You should be. And we’ll come back. All of the things you’re saying have meaning. Right. Oh, okay.

 

Speaker 5 18:35

All right, but they did. The Hargan women seem to have it all.

 

Speaker 6 18:38

From the outside looking in, we were blessed. My mom was amazing.

 

Speaker 5 18:43

But as detectives would soon learn, there was a lot going on inside the Hargan household.

 

Speaker 3 18:48

Ashley and I have been calling my mom and the house and Helen, no one’s answer.

 

Speaker 7 18:52

Thanks for watching!

 

Speaker 5 18:54

63 -year -old Pamela Hargan gunned down in her own home. Her youngest daughter Helen lay dead upstairs.

 

Speaker 6 19:00

Patrol, when they arrived, assumed or thought that there might have been a murder -suicide.

 

Speaker 5 19:06

But for the detectives on the scene. There were things about the scene itself that were concerning to us on day one. Who would want to kill their mother and their little sister? There is no boogeyman here.

 

Speaker 5 19:18

It is exactly who we think it is. I’m Peter Van Sant from 48 Hours. This is Blood is Thicker, the Hargen Family Killings. Listen to Blood is Thicker, the Hargen Family Killings, wherever you get your podcasts.

 

Speaker 8 19:36

Hi, I’m Matt Harris. Seton Tucker and I post the podcast Impact of Influence, which for two years covered in depth, Elick Murdoch, who was eventually convicted in 2023 of murdering his wife Maggie and son Paul.

 

Speaker 8 19:49

That story continues to evolve and we will cover that. Plus, we will tell you stories of other true crime events that have happened in the South. Please join us on Impact of Influence and give us a follow on the Impact of Influence Facebook page.

 

Speaker 1 20:05

Get married mom mom mom was not mom was not happy, but they are now married and then

 

Speaker 2 20:11

Their marriage was just just them as I understand it. Yeah, okay

 

Speaker 3 20:18

Potentially. Okay. So now they’re living rare. Like I said. Like I said. Like I said. You’re drunk.

 

Speaker 1 20:26

I can tell.

 

Speaker 2 20:27

All right, so they got married on February 4th 1988 in Las Vegas just them Okay, and then they go to the cruise is on February 6th. So two days later. Oh, that’s their honeymoon That’s their honeymoon.

 

Speaker 2 20:40

It’s gonna be a seven -day cruise from California down to Mexico and then back to California

 

Speaker 3 20:47

It’s a seven -day romantic sea adventure on the Mexican Riviera with stops in Cabasan Lucas de Vallarta. There’s another place, Altsun.

 

Speaker 2 21:00

That one I didn’t know I didn’t know that one.

 

Speaker 1 21:02

I think we’ve done episodes on two of those three probably anyway, okay, so

 

Speaker 2 21:07

It’s a it’s a you know, it’s your standard honeymoon honeymoon cruise gonna be romantic It’s you’re there to just like hang out and enjoy not have to worry about anything. Okay, that’s a great cruise by all accounts they have a good time except for People do notice that he gets weirdly upset with her at some of the dinners, right?

 

Speaker 3 21:30

was reports of tension at dinner. Apparently he was very irritated with her. Seems she didn’t know the appropriate silverware to use. And he didn’t seem to like that she enjoyed sweets. Yeah, I can relate.

 

Speaker 2 21:47

It was really interesting like he was upset about the fact that she was eating it here called petty fours it’s like a little dessert thing sure yeah but the but the waiter had announced they were gonna be bringing the waiter had announced they were gonna bring baked Alaska right which is that men flaming merengue probably only get served our cruises and like really old steak restaurants so he was upset because she was eating the petty fours even though the baked Alaska was about to come and he got really upset with her that she didn’t understand furious dinner etiquette and the other people at their table had noticed we’re like what the hell like because all through dinner he’d been upset she’s like you’re not using the right silverware you’re not using the right fork you’re not using the right spoon and

 

Speaker 3 22:30

And she was obviously embarrassing him very

 

Speaker 2 22:33

Yeah, to the point where he was, like, irate and raged with her. Ah! Okay.

 

Speaker 1 22:38

What a weird thing to be upset about. Not that you know which silverware to use, Kim.

 

Speaker 2 22:44

Listen, after you spent that much time in an Israeli mental hospital, every silverware man, I don’t know. So, yeah, so people noticed there was some tension, but other than that, it was a nice cruise, right?

 

Speaker 3 22:57

Yeah, I mean, you know, they enjoyed seemingly there in time together, you know, there was ping pong on the ship, which I thought was kind of odd that you could play ping pong on

 

Speaker 1 23:13

on a boat that’s moving.

 

Speaker 3 23:14

Yeah, but all right, look.

 

Speaker 1 23:15

Yeah, it feels like the kind of sport that you don’t want to look maybe it’s a big boat. You don’t feel the

 

Speaker 3 23:22

It could very well be.

 

Speaker 2 23:23

Interesting interesting weird fact about this boat is that it it began life in 1981 as the MS, Scandinavia Okay, and it was the world’s largest car ferry, right? So more cars could fit on this boat to be ferried wherever it was working than any other boat in the world and in 1985 or 1984 85 it had been retrofitted to become this party cruise ship the MS stardancer So they took out all the car ferry areas and turned them into into cabins But what that means which is what I’m telling you this is unlike a typical cruise ship that has different You know tiers and levels.

 

Speaker 2 23:59

This is just a giant box, right? So like everything is just like there’s no tears to it. Gotcha

 

Speaker 1 24:07

What’s it called? The ship, the star dancer, the star dancer, the star.

 

Speaker 4 24:11

It’s the same.

 

Speaker 7 24:12

Star Dancer.

 

Speaker 1 24:13

Why are you saying it like it’s a script club? It could actually be a good idea.

 

Speaker 2 24:17

name for a strip club.

 

Speaker 3 24:19

I don’t know, is there any other way to say Star Dancer? Star Dancer. Star Dancer. Star Dancer. No. Okay, that’s how you have to.

 

Speaker 1 24:27

That would be a good name for a strip club.

 

Speaker 2 24:28

So they have this nice cruise, it’s a 7 day cruise, other than him getting irate with her about soul wear and design.

 

Speaker 1 24:35

And that’s the only thing he got upset about. Well, that’s the only thing that people saw him get upset about.

 

Speaker 2 24:39

We don’t know what’s happening.

 

Speaker 1 24:42

That’s the wrong ping -pong paddle. That’s the wrong shuffleboard.

 

Speaker 3 24:45

It could very well be. It could very well be.

 

Speaker 2 24:49

Okay, that’s not how you wrap the towel around your hair. What are you? Exactly.

 

Speaker 3 24:54

So it would be the last day on the high seas and Scott and Karen figured they should take advantage of the jogging track because apparently there was a jogging track also. Okay. Yeah, a lot of boats have that, right?

 

Speaker 3 25:07

Yeah. Nice. And they would get in their last walker jog on the track in the brisk salty sea air before their cruise ends.

 

Speaker 2 25:16

Uh -oh, on February 13th, the day before Valentine’s Day, 1988.

 

Speaker 3 25:22

It was approximately 3 a .m. when a worn out and hysterical Scott reported two officials on the ship that his wife had gotten caught in a strong gust of wind. Lost her balance. Nice. And went over the three and a half foot rail and into the

 

Speaker 1 25:49

I got blown off the boat. Oh, it happens all the time.

 

Speaker 2 25:52

One of the most common things they warn you about on cruise ships is not being blown off by a stiff wind. That’s not a thing. Just to clarify, for you to tell me in the reviews that I’m crazy.

 

Speaker 1 26:11

Okay, so the I was wondering when we were gonna get to a cruise ship. Yeah, we’re there. We’re there.

 

Speaker 3 26:18

Here we are.

 

Speaker 2 26:19

All right. So a couple of interesting math problems. So she is five foot three, as Kim just said, the railing is three foot six. Right. Leaving about a foot and a half between. It’s it would be very you would need a very strong wind to like literally pick the person up and over the railing in order for that to happen.

 

Speaker 2 26:41

However, Scott did not consider apparently that cruise ships have very accurate and current weather conditions because they need that. Yeah. In order to run the ship. The weather at that point, according to the crew and all of the records, were just under five mile per hour winds.

 

Speaker 1 27:01

Right. I don’t know. Maybe there was a really targeted white squall or whatever that is. The trade wind came and.

 

Speaker 3 27:09

Well, he was confronted with that little detail, at which point he backtracked. And just said, look, all right, maybe it wasn’t the wind.

 

Speaker 1 27:20

Maybe it was me.

 

Speaker 3 27:21

We didn’t say well

 

Speaker 2 27:23

He had bruises and gouges on his face. Wow, and he told the crew. Oh, I hit this, you know, gangway Trying to rescue her as the wind was taking her over the rails And so they you know, they’re like, all right Well, let’s go look at the box and then sort of try and figure it out and they go and they look at this box

 

Speaker 1 27:41

Meanwhile, did they find her? Like what’s going on? We’ll get to her. Oh, okay.

 

Speaker 2 27:44

So they go and look at this gangway box and there’s there’s no Indication that a human has hit this box. There’s no protrusions. I would call any of these

 

Speaker 3 27:53

know, does anybody know what a gangway box is? Like, what is

 

Speaker 2 27:59

I looked it up and it just said, all I could find out is it’s a kind of control box that has control. So this sounds very vague. So apparently. I don’t know what it is.

 

Speaker 3 28:08

It’s a system that’s used to enable personnel and crew access to ship and shore. They are designed to follow the ship’s movements. So I thought, that’s interesting that he slammed his head on.

 

Speaker 1 28:28

Well, if it’s the thing jutting out of the wall and he’s trying to lurch forward and grab her, you could crash into something, so. Allegedly. But it doesn’t seem that feasible that you would sustain.

 

Speaker 2 28:40

So he was questioned at length by the ship’s doctor a guy named dr. Young besides being a medical doctor on this cruise ship Dr. Young an actual doctor. He’s an actual doctor. Yes, dr. Young asked him to crack his back because it was Dr.

 

Speaker 2 28:56

Young in addition being a doctor. He’s also a deputized law officer from Hawaii. So He seemed like the right guy to ask these questions both from the health perspective and also just legally right? so when the captain’s cabin dr.

 

Speaker 2 29:09

Young questioned him and Roston gave permission for the interrogation to be audio taped when the questioning ended they Were like this seems a bit sketchy. Yeah They weren’t convinced by any of his story right and they put him in a story Yeah, he because he’d switched he’d switch stories to say first that she was blown off deck and then she just fell Then he said she fell But she was like looking over and fell.

 

Speaker 2 29:38

Oh pretty quickly. They found her earrings about eleven and a half feet from the railing and They found some strands of her hair Which he was sort of trying to explain all this away is like I was trying to grab her and this and that but it just None of the geography of where things were found made sense Right the fact that he kept changing stories was concerning so they actually lock him in an unoccupied cabin Basically,

 

Speaker 2 30:02

you’re like, you know, right the closest thing to jail, but it’s not jail But it’s like we’re just gonna put him in there. We’re 20 miles offshore from California, right? So we’re gonna be at port pretty soon

 

Speaker 3 30:16

makeshift jail, if you will.

 

Speaker 1 30:19

how soon until he starts pretending he’s crazy. Not long. But wait, let me backtrack one second. This guy’s freaking out on deck. Oh my God, she fell off the boat. Does the boat stop? Does the boat circle back?

 

Speaker 3 30:36

Well, they try to locate her. You know, the Coast Guard is, of course, brought in. Yeah.

 

Speaker 1 30:41

They don’t find it.

 

Speaker 3 30:43

Well, they do actually do. Oh, they do.

 

Speaker 1 30:46

It’s not right away.

 

Speaker 2 30:48

uh but not that long after after now okay so he’s

 

Speaker 1 30:51

within like a half a day, they, oh, okay. So he’s in this, he’s locked in a room and they find the body.

 

Speaker 3 30:57

Right. Okay. So it was like the afternoon of February 13.

 

Speaker 2 31:01

The incident happened like two or three a .m. on February 13th.

 

Speaker 1 31:05

Oh, it happened at night.

 

Speaker 3 31:08

It’s like three o ‘clock in the morning.

 

Speaker 1 31:09

going for a jog around the boat at night at three in the morning.

 

Speaker 3 31:12

I think you’re on a boat, you’re hanging out, you’re…

 

Speaker 2 31:15

It’s their last night together on the honeymoon cruise.

 

Speaker 1 31:17

not going for a job you can just go up on the on deck and look at the right exam

 

Speaker 2 31:21

There’s nothing there’s nothing really unusual about that. Because people, you know, you’re on a cruise, you’re making your own hours. Like whatever. So later that afternoon, the afternoon, the 13th, the Coast Guard does find her body.

 

Speaker 2 31:32

 

Speaker 3 31:34

and she’s floating and they said that they noticed her by the white tips of her sneakers okay and because of the way that she fell and the way she landed in the water her clothes had sort of provided this parachute effect like a ballooning right so she was floating right so she was spotted I would say pretty quickly after he thought that he would you have a clean getaway of no body I’m just speculating here and the other the other just saying

 

Speaker 2 32:11

about fighting her in that way is that because she was floating, meaning her clothes were all filled with air, which meant she was either, this is an interesting point that I understand.

 

Speaker 1 32:22

Like she probably didn’t put her hands out or anything to stop the fall

 

Speaker 2 32:26

That means she was either dead or unconscious when she hit the water, because the second you start to try to swim, all the air would come out of your…

 

Speaker 1 32:34

Right, you know say she let’s just benefit of the doubt. She falls over. She hits the water hard enough to knock her out And doesn’t swim could that be?

 

Speaker 2 32:44

That’s possible, but then they do an autopsy.

 

Speaker 1 32:46

Well, first of all, how high is it from the rail to the water?

 

Speaker 3 32:50

You know, I don’t know the actual height, but I do know that it’s like a straight drop, especially since, like you said, the boat is kind of like a box, so there aren’t like these tiers. It’s basically from the top.

 

Speaker 2 33:02

deck of a cruise ship down. So I don’t know. Those are like usually like six or seven stories. Right. Okay, so it’s a significant drop. Yeah, it’s a fall.

 

Speaker 1 33:10

you could be knocked out.

 

Speaker 2 33:11

So meanwhile, they’re, they’re finding her body and noticing that she’s either was unconscious or dead when she hit the water. But at the same time, Scott is now arriving on land where he is immediately arrested on suspicion of murder.

 

Speaker 2 33:24

Right. Okay. So Dr. Young has called this in and said, there’s no way your story is just something’s funky here. And this doesn’t seem right. So he gets arrested and he gets placed into, um, terminal island detention center, which I mentioned by name because you have base.

 

Speaker 2 33:40

Remember when we shot, uh, for GE at the shipyard in Los Angeles, that area, that, that ship’s terminal, there is this detention center there that’s been there forever. Well, that’s a fun fact. Yeah.

 

Speaker 2 33:53

Fun fact. And the detention center and terminal island has held people including Henry Hill, Al Capone, Timothy Leary on LSD charges and briefly Charles Manson. Oh, so it’s an, it’s an interesting historical jail that he gets taken

 

Speaker 1 34:09

I can’t believe they all threw people off a boat.

 

Speaker 2 34:10

Yeah, right. So now he’s in custody. They have her body. Now he realizes, oh, I’m not getting away with this probably.

 

Speaker 3 34:19

And the corner, he finds there’s a hemorrhaging in her eyes. He noted a distortion in her neck, which is consistent with manual strangulation. And there is a, what they call a goose egg type bump on her forehead, dark coloration around her eyes and indications of blunt force injuries and abrasions.

 

Speaker 3 34:45

And oddly, a tiny puncture wound below her left breast. So she had a lot going on for somebody that just. Right. Just fell.

 

Speaker 1 34:56

Maybe it was a bad chiropractic session. He’s not very good.

 

Speaker 3 35:01

Maybe, maybe. Ah, okay, I see. They also find.

 

Speaker 2 35:05

Some material from the track, the jogging track was embedded in her clothes.

 

Speaker 1 35:12

like she was on the ground

 

Speaker 2 35:13

She was on the ground, but not just on the ground, but they said in order for this material from the jogging track to be embedded in her clothes, someone would have to be applying force against her.

 

Speaker 3 35:22

Yeah, like on top of her and- Like strangling her.

 

Speaker 2 35:26

Strangler right so there’s for example we have a guy who people have seen him being enraged because she wasn’t using silverware correctly He she wasn’t eating sweets in the correct order We have him telling two different stories about when she got blown off and then she fell over then we find her body she’s got signs of strangulation blunt force trauma and Force okay, so he’s it’s very hard to avoid the conclusion that he Murdered his new wife of nine days.

 

Speaker 2 35:56

Okay, the shove boat the shove boat. You just can’t help yourself. Wow Unfortunately

 

Speaker 1 36:04

MURDER AND

 

Speaker 2 36:07

However, Scott has a different story, right? Scott is like, I love this woman. I have nothing to do with this. No, he loved his wife. I loved her. This was gonna be my future. This was the woman that I was gonna spend the rest of my life with.

 

Speaker 2 36:23

She’s gonna be the mother of his children. Why exactly? Why are you keeping me here instead of looking for the real killers who are the operatives from the Israeli government taking revenge on me for publishing my book, Nightmare on Israel?

 

Speaker 2 36:38

Why didn’t I think of that? Which was so critical of the Israeli government that the prime minister has actually let people know that he’s afraid of me. And in fact, if you guys were doing your job, you would have noticed the two Israeli Mossad Secret Service that were on the boat.

 

Speaker 2 36:56

They were on the boat. And that is who killed my wife as revenge for my publishing, Nightmare on Israel, about what a horrible place Israel is.

 

Speaker 1 37:06

1. Wow, I’m sorry I take back the shove boat. Or maybe not.

 

Speaker 2 37:13

And by the way, this is not just a one time thing. If you look back, you’ll see that in March of 1978, Scott says my mother had reported to Palm Beach County when he to two Israelis in a white van tried to abduct him at a shopping mall.

 

Speaker 2 37:29

He was able to break free. Thank God he’d shot one of them before speeding away in his Toyota.

 

Speaker 3 37:34

one of them said.

 

Speaker 2 37:35

Thank you.

 

Speaker 3 37:36

Israel

 

Speaker 2 37:37

wants you.

 

Speaker 1 37:49

his wife. Yeah, not him. Not him. Right. But they didn’t take him down. Right. They just threw his wife overboard.

 

Speaker 2 37:56

So the two Israelis who were on board the ship, there were two Israelis, there were, unfortunately for them, there were two Israelis. Was it the guy trying?

 

Speaker 1 38:09

to set up a fake health clinic. You should have married the daughter. You should have married my neighbor. It was actually her and her father.

 

Speaker 2 38:17

Now, the funny thing is, like, okay, so we’re making light of this, but, you know, when you go online, the internet being the internet, this is one of these cases because it’s so crazy, right, that this guy is saying that the Israeli government has been after him for a decade.

 

Speaker 2 38:30

This is, they’ve waited till he had this one thing that he was finally happy with this woman. And they’re like, we’re going to take this from you the same way you took our reputation from us. So if you go online, you will find there’s quite a few people who are like, of course there was Israeli agents on board who did this and of course this was Mossad.

 

Speaker 2 38:48

And do you think all of the explanations that the Israelis, these two Israelis offered are exactly what you would say if you were an Israeli secret service agent trying to avoid being found out? It’s all batshit crazy.

 

Speaker 2 39:00

Okay. All of it. That’s your opinion. It’s batshit crazy.

 

Speaker 7 39:05

Hello, this is Dr. Grande, the host of True Crime Psychology and Personality. On my podcast, I explore and explain the pathology behind some of the most horrendous crimes and those who commit them. We discuss topics like narcissism, psychopathy, sociopathy, and antisocial personality disorder from a scientifically informed perspective.

 

Speaker 7 39:27

What is a narcissist? How do you spot a sociopath? What science can you look for to protect yourself from these dangerous personalities? It’s not just about the stories, but also the science and psychology behind them.

 

Speaker 7 39:40

So, if you’re interested in true crime or mental health, I’d encourage you to give my show a listen wherever you get podcasts.

 

Speaker 2 39:48

First of all, this is where this question you’ve had this whole time about the popularity of this book. Right. I got you. So the book was self published. Surprise, surprise.

 

Speaker 3 40:00

Surprise.

 

Speaker 2 40:01

Yes, thank you for that. Oh, that’s like a Brian Suarez favorite, by the way. He will love- I am with him. Oh my God. My husband loves Surprise, Surprise so much. So do I. I love it, I love it. So the book was self -published and the prosecutors were like, well, it’s pretty unlikely that the Israeli government was coming after you for revenge since there was one copy was sold.

 

Speaker 2 40:28

One.

 

Speaker 3 40:30

One probably by his parents, right?

 

Speaker 2 40:32

But probably they also say that demand soared as a result of the case to 78 copies, ultimately being sold.

 

Speaker 1 40:41

 

Speaker 3 40:43

It is a lot. Chimp bought one. That.

 

Speaker 1 40:45

is a lot. Oh, wow. This book that didn’t sell, well, one copy. Oh, they should track down who bought that copy.

 

Speaker 2 40:54

Well, it wasn’t me. I found the prime minister of Israel. And he was not a big one. Yeah, was the prime minister. I refuse to buy the book because I’m like, I’m not giving this guy my money. Right. It exists.

 

Speaker 2 41:05

It does exist.

 

Speaker 1 41:06

Nightmare in the latrino, right he’s changed it again and said I mean he he was obviously with her When this happened, he claimed he smashed into a box and has Wounds because of it now. He’s saying that there is massage agents Correct.

 

Speaker 1 41:22

Did he tell a story as in like they came and they grabbed her? Yes, he did Okay, so yeah, they came and they beat him up. Is that why he has wounds and beat him?

 

Speaker 2 41:31

He was trying to defend her right then they strangled her and they said we’re taking this from you and through her over

 

Speaker 1 41:37

Gotcha and he I guess he was afraid to say all that at first because he was afraid

 

Speaker 3 41:43

afraid for his. He said he was afraid for his family, for his family, for him and his family. Right.

 

Speaker 1 41:50

All right, well, it checks out. Can’t argue with that, right? Did you start writing the second book?

 

Speaker 3 41:57

No, but there was a murder trial. Of course, there was that began late february 1989 Okay, and his defense was The israelis did it yep, correct using the espionage defense and the two israeli men that were On board the stardancer the defense really was these things it sounds crazy But it really does happen

 

Speaker 1 42:24

And they brought in those two on winning Israelis. Yes.

 

Speaker 2 42:28

They did. They brought in one of them.

 

Speaker 1 42:29

And who were they? Were they two men? Two men. Yes.

 

Speaker 3 42:32

One of them was a wedding photographer.

 

Speaker 1 42:35

 

Speaker 3 42:36

and he was traveling with his companion and apparently he visited Disney World and Universal Studios. He said he’s not secret agents of the Israeli government and is not working on behalf of Israel.

 

Speaker 2 42:51

It’s a guy named Maurice Aziza, and he said, I’m a wedding photographer. I came over here to photograph a friend’s wedding. They showed the wedding pictures. And then with his buddy, Emil, you’re on, you’re on.

 

Speaker 2 43:05

They decided to finish their time in America with this cruise. And so the prosecution brought Maurice in to explain all of this. And the defense, really, their only defense was that this was an Israeli set up.

 

Speaker 2 43:19

I mean, they really just leaned hard into this.

 

Speaker 3 43:23

and these things happen.

 

Speaker 1 43:25

Right. They faked the wedding and everything for the photos. That’s I can’t believe you found lawyers who would go along with this.

 

Speaker 2 43:32

Well, he did, that’s what they did. That’s the defense.

 

Speaker 1 43:35

That was the difference.

 

Speaker 2 43:36

And so, as you can imagine, the defense did not go well. Right.

 

Speaker 1 43:40

No, really? No. I think…

 

Speaker 3 43:42

The jury didn’t buy this? The jury found Ralston. Incredibly guilty, Your Honor. Of second degree murder on the high seas. And Scott was sentenced to life in prison. Although the Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit remanded Scott for resentencing, upholding his conviction on November 1994, and resentencing him to a term of 33 years.

 

Speaker 1 44:14

Well, they reduced the sentence.

 

Speaker 3 44:15

Well, what happened was the appellate had noted that imposing a life sentence was more in line with first -degree murder, and he was charged with second -degree murder.

 

Speaker 1 44:29

Oh, yeah, so this wasn’t all a plot. Yeah, I was gonna say what is the motive of this? Well, that’s so this is

 

Speaker 2 44:35

the question we keep talking about. Yeah, we can’t figure it out. There’s no insurance policy, there’s no nothing, right? So it seems motiveless other than we do know that he had some rage with her about these silverware things and these, these desserts, but not like, like, why would that come up only on the cruise?

 

Speaker 2 44:58

There’s no financial motive. There’s, there’s nothing. There’s, and they’ve been married for eight days or nine days.

 

Speaker 1 45:04

You know what the defense should have been? The PTSD he suffered at the hands of the torturers.

 

Speaker 2 45:11

So they Israel so they they tried to bring this up actually the defense did say that and they said that he has Mental illness and mental problems from that and they requested the documents from the mental institution in Israel where he’d been held So that show that he was crazy.

 

Speaker 2 45:27

Now. Keep in mind two things. Number one. He was in the mental institution Because he decided and as he says in his book to pretend he was crazy, right, right? So he’s not really crazy But he pretended he was crazy right get out of jail

 

Speaker 1 45:41

But they were torturing him in jail.

 

Speaker 2 45:43

Correct allegedly correct. But what what his attorney says is no, no, no he was he’s crazy. He was in a mental institution But we know he was there because he was pretending right? But meanwhile neither the lawyer the court or anybody can ever Procure these documents, right?

 

Speaker 2 45:59

So this these documents don’t exist Leading one to believe that he’s made this whole That he was he ever in the jail. We don’t we have no there’s no evidence that he was ever in jail I’m not I don’t I can’t prove he wasn’t but we found

 

Speaker 1 46:15

Nothing nothing. So they couldn’t prove he was in jail because you could say like, okay the mental institution part Maybe you like why even say it’s he was in a mess like just he was Illegally arrested right and tortured and now he’s crazy

 

Speaker 2 46:30

So that’s a different argument because then you need a psychiatrist to attest currently that he’s crazy, right now We we are in America. We’re not in Israel. We’ve done we did what we could in terms of searching Jail records and criminal records in Israel granted It probably was not as thorough as it could be because we’re doing it from here and yeah We couldn’t find anything that indicated That he was in jail in this court and the end and his own defense could not procure any documents about this mental institution so he did try that strategy what’s interesting is so on the resensing Kim was just talking about the Defense at that point decided maybe we should stop talking about Israeli revenge He’s up on that let’s just stop talking about that and instead let’s talk about more conventional Legal arguments as Kim mentioned one was he was sentenced as if he did First degree,

 

Speaker 2 47:26

but it was second degree And so the so the the resentencing court was like we don’t see any evidence as to why he should have been bumped up to that however What’s really interesting is? His attorney says look the other thing we want to bring up is There was what they call in, California Sufficient evidence of provocation to arouse a reasonable and ordinary person to kill the deceased Right, I’m gonna read that again That there was sufficient evidence of provocation to arouse any reasonable and ordinary person to kill the deceased So the she was asking for it meaning that she had done something to provoke him Enough that a reasonable and ordinary person would kill her,

 

Speaker 2 48:15

right? Okay, so what did she do?

 

Speaker 1 48:20

She mocked his book sales.

 

Speaker 2 48:22

What did she do?

 

Speaker 1 48:25

One book, you sold one. I can see Kim doing that. One book.

 

Speaker 3 48:32

Your mom watch your butt

 

Speaker 1 48:35

You’re telling you’re telling everyone you’re an author you sold one book. I can totally see that I flipped the fuck out to you it right you would be in the water so fast grounds for murder

 

Speaker 2 48:47

god damn fast so so we need here

 

Speaker 1 48:52

and then I’d be beating up all the gangplanks and the gang boxes and…

 

Speaker 3 48:57

Happy Wednesday.

 

Speaker 4 48:59

Bye!

 

Speaker 2 49:00

Dr. Young. Paging Dr. Young.

 

Speaker 1 49:02

Exactly. Wow. So she they’re saying that she

 

Speaker 2 49:05

But what was the sufficient evidence you need sufficient evidence of provocation to arouse a reasonable in order person to kill the deceased So what did you what did she do to provoke him? We’ve discussed it in the case the forks the spoons and what else the metaphors.

 

Speaker 2 49:18

That’s correct. The defense attorney On resentencing pointed to the following evidence that there were some severe disagreements between him and his wife over her eating sweets at an inappropriate time and second

 

Speaker 1 49:34

Baked Alaska, to bake the last good defense. I’m sorry for laughing.

 

Speaker 2 49:37

This is actual this is their their argument and the second provocation was a Significant tension between them because she did not know how to use the complex silverware settings aboard the ship and that therefore That these were so provocative that any reasonable person would have killed someone Just lost their shit How do these attorneys do like do it with a straight face?

 

Speaker 2 50:03

I mean this law is forked Oh my god

 

Speaker 1 50:09

Oh, come on now, so that’s

 

Speaker 2 50:12

This is Christ. Surprisingly, that our

 

Speaker 1 50:13

So that leads to mental illness. If you’re that upset about the goddamn pedophores in silverware, you are crazy. Thus you get off or get, you know, you know.

 

Speaker 2 50:23

Well, the court, surprisingly, did not buy the argument. So close. So then they argued, well, his Miranda rights were violated. So they said he was questioned without his Miranda rights being read to him, the right to remain silent, the right to lawyer was not given to him.

 

Speaker 2 50:41

Which on the face of it, you’re like, oh, well, actually, you know, that is true. However, the court said the doctor who questioned him, Dr. Young, was asked to do so by the ship’s captain, who is not a law enforcement official.

 

Speaker 2 50:55

The captain and the doctor were both acting on their own initiative, says the court, with no government involvement. There was no government person there. And the fact that the doctor was a reserve police officer in Hawaii is just, as the court said, fortuitous and has no bearing.

 

Speaker 2 51:10

He was not acting in a capacity as an officer. He was acting as a ship’s doctor. And so therefore no Miranda warning was required.

 

Speaker 1 51:19

Oh, okay. Oh, because if they would have said he was actually a cop in his capacity there. If he was a cop, if he was acting acting.

 

Speaker 2 51:25

as a police, if he was like somehow a police officer on the job, he would have had to have read her Miranda, but he wasn’t.

 

Speaker 1 51:32

Okay. Wow. So they’re just bringing up, they’re just throwing shit at the wall.

 

Speaker 2 51:36

Yeah, the Maranda thing actually sounds at least like a reasonable argument the fact that they would even bring up this idea that like there was Sufficient evidence of provocation because she didn’t use the silverware right and she ate the little sweets before the baked Alaska that That’s like bonkers like that’s that’s like a

 

Speaker 3 51:54

In in their room. They did find like a thing of sweets. No. Yeah a dish with some Cake or or something. So what does that mean? I don’t know just means that Obviously she stole all the sweet sweets and it just shorted him out to the point like oh my god It’s everywhere.

 

Speaker 3 52:13

It’s here. Look at it Right

 

Speaker 2 52:16

What’s so weird is they’ve been together for like two years like what how did this stuff not come up before?

 

Speaker 3 52:22

Well, I guess they didn’t live together. It’s a whole different you know

 

Speaker 1 52:26

How many forks do you use at home? You just use the one. So like you’re on the ship and there’s seven forks. Right. You don’t know which one to use for. Yeah. Yeah. Kim is always using the wrong silverware when we go out.

 

Speaker 1 52:37

I do that.

 

Speaker 3 52:38

On purpose really you cut the stick with the spoon on purpose

 

Speaker 1 52:42

Right, okay.

 

Speaker 4 52:43

hahaha

 

Speaker 2 52:45

So, before we wrap this one up, a couple of interesting weird tidbits about the old stardancer. The old stardancer. So, stardancer was renamed a couple of times, and eventually becomes the Island Escape, okay?

 

Speaker 2 53:05

Yes, that’s right. Which, this ship became the setting for a 10 episode mid -2000s TV show, also called Island Escape, about the crew that works below decks on a cruise ship. And this 10 episode mini -dock became the below deck, okay?

 

Speaker 2 53:25

Final weird piece of trivia. May 25th, 2006, and Miki Kenosaki is on board the ship, where she is murdered by her ex -husband Lonnie strangled and thrown in the water. In the same way. In the exact same way.

 

Speaker 1 53:41

On the shove boat.

 

Speaker 2 53:44

Murders and dreams for all and that ship has yeah exactly the ship has since been decommissioned scrapped

 

Speaker 1 53:53

It wasn’t renamed the booty shaker and sent off with a bunch of strippers and no

 

Speaker 3 53:59

And Scott was released from jail in 2017.

 

Speaker 2 54:03

He got out. He’s out. He’s 75 now and he is out of jail. Cracking backs like nobody’s business. Right.

 

Speaker 1 54:12

Oh boy, look into your chiropractor, slash author.

 

Speaker 3 54:19

Actually, I wonder if he changed his name and went off the grid I couldn’t find him

 

Speaker 2 54:26

Look because we know exactly this prisoner number. We know exactly what they use from the Long Beach. I’m sure he

 

Speaker 1 54:31

I can’t believe you didn’t write another book.

 

Speaker 3 54:35

Well, I think he just wants to just…

 

Speaker 1 54:37

lay back

 

Speaker 3 54:43

Okay, guys, what do you say we-

 

Speaker 1 54:45

wrap this up. Hang on. Any take away?

 

Speaker 3 54:48

y ‘know

 

Speaker 1 54:50

Listen to your mom. I was gonna say that’s a good one

 

Speaker 2 54:53

Feel like the right take away for this because she she said I don’t think he had money I think this is all why you know mom’s Moms have good sixth sense about stuff, and you should I mean

 

Speaker 3 55:05

Look, here’s the thing. Not everybody has a mom that’s normal, so we have to acknowledge that.

 

Speaker 1 55:12

like our daughter.

 

Speaker 3 55:18

Um, but I, I will say that mom’s Jew into it in a way, unlike anybody else. And my mom, who I would categorize as kind of crazy when she would make a statement about somebody and I’d be like, you’re just nuts.

 

Speaker 3 55:44

She would be right. And I’d be like, God damn it. Well, the thing is.

 

Speaker 2 55:50

Yeah, like moms, even like, even if you if even if your relation with your mom is like tense or whatever, moms, with very rare exception, most moms do have your best interests at heart, right? Exactly.

 

Speaker 2 56:04

And a lot of times we’ll give advice or thoughts that you’re like, okay, maybe, maybe not. But when a mom has a spidey sense about something, as it relates, like, your mom’s job is kind of like your survival.

 

Speaker 2 56:15

Like, that’s her thing. Like, that’s what moms are like, you know, right. And so when mom has a spidey sense about something, listen to it. Yeah, you know, dad to dad to

 

Speaker 1 56:25

Not that, that’s not as much. Not that, that too. Not as much. If they involve dad, but not as much. But not, dad knows. But not as much.

 

Speaker 3 56:33

You know, this reminds me…

 

Speaker 1 56:35

You know what I was going to say, though? The mom is looking at the person, not through the veil and the sheen of love and lust and all that stuff. They’re looking at the person directly. The diamond was appraised.

 

Speaker 1 56:49

It was bullshit. It was a fake. And she loves the guy so much that everything is just shaded with that. Whereas the mom is like, I’m looking at it in the cold, hard light of truth. And yeah, this guy is shady.

 

Speaker 1 57:03

But how are you supposed to know that he’s that fucking crazy?

 

Speaker 2 57:07

Well, there’s also the thing with with some women like grow up wanting the perfect guy, right? They want the guy with like the the perfect job the money the perfect physique the perfect hair and the mom here her mom even thankfully

 

Speaker 1 57:19

Kim was not one of those girls.

 

Speaker 2 57:21

No, but Kim’s like Kim’s into like.

 

Speaker 1 57:23

you whatever that is

 

Speaker 3 57:27

here’s the thing and this is whatever this is this is what I say I’m still

 

Speaker 2 57:32

I’m a little confused, but I mean, you know.

 

Speaker 3 57:35

I think the advice really like when it comes to is Particularly when you’re a mom and you’re talking about a person and you’re advising your kid on some jerk that they may be dating You’re trying to encourage them to consider if you’re looking at this person as a life partner.

 

Speaker 3 57:52

Is this What that is? because a life partner conjures up very different Images at least you know when you consider I’m gonna marry this person I’m gonna spend the rest of my life with this person. We may raise children together We may like that’s a life partner.

 

Speaker 3 58:13

That’s

 

Speaker 1 58:14

Yeah, we might eat petaphors together.

 

Speaker 2 58:16

Well, and you’re also as a mom or dad, you don’t want to overly say like, oh, this person is not right for you. You should get away from him because that often has the opposite effect. Oh, 100% has the opposite effect.

 

Speaker 2 58:27

Because your kid’s like, oh, well, the last thing I want is to…

 

Speaker 1 58:33

That’s that’s the rule. You’re supposed to say I love this person. I think they’re perfect for you. That person will be gone Within the week within the week

 

Speaker 3 58:41

You know, there’s actually some truth to that because you know because really less is more and I think like really the takeaway is Just really consider like if if somebody is saying something about Maybe has she stopped and said no is this guy really a good life partner.

 

Speaker 3 59:01

He’s yelling at me because I’m having a sweet treat You know these little things in the larger scheme of things matter like am I gonna raise kids with this guy? Is he gonna be freaking out like?

 

Speaker 1 59:19

I do wonder if there were red flags like him being crazy or overly aggressive before the cruise and all that. I assume there was, but…

 

Speaker 3 59:27

Well, look, and to be honest, like even giving her a fake diamond. Now, while you’d be like, OK, well, that’s not a bit, it really isn’t. But if he would have said, look, here’s a ring, it’s, you know, diamonds are overrated.

 

Speaker 1 59:44

Yeah, but you know what? That’s a different kind of thing though. Like I thought like with the ring, I thought it was going to be like, oh, he’s a shy, sturdy guy who got life insurance. And you know, cause it’s like, he’s one of those guys and he wasn’t, it didn’t turn out to be like he’s mentally ill or something and prone to outbursts of violence and stuff.

 

Speaker 1 01:00:03

So that’s like a different type of thing. The ring, whatever, like, you know, a guy trying to not spend a lot of money on a ring and pull a fast one. That’s fine. I mean, it’s not, I’m not saying it’s fine.

 

Speaker 1 01:00:14

I’m just saying like that’s a, you don’t expect that person to be a murderer or to, to, to lose their shit over, over small things.

 

Speaker 3 01:00:23

out. Look, you know, every negative thing that my mother may have said about somebody, it wasn’t because she even thought like, oh, they’re going to murder you. But it was more like, what’s the character stuff?

 

Speaker 3 01:00:35

Right. Is this somebody that you, you know, is this

 

Speaker 1 01:00:39

Somebody wasn’t code for me, right?

 

Speaker 3 01:00:40

No.

 

Speaker 2 01:00:43

I think that giving someone a ring and saying it’s a diamond ring when it’s a cubic zirconia is More than a red flag. Like if you find that out you should go right in the other direction because Because just just be honest might just be honest about your finances be honest about by pick out a smaller diamond ring or just be okay, but like making unilateral decisions that involve lying and Pretend and convincing someone that something is something.

 

Speaker 2 01:01:10

It’s not that is a giant Field of red flags for the future that relationship

 

Speaker 1 01:01:18

All right, don’t get the ring of praise. All right, I think that wraps up another episode of Slaycation. Wow, you were right. This was crazy.

 

Speaker 2 01:01:31

Sorry, last question. Do you think it was him or the Israeli agents? Thanks for watching!

 

Speaker 1 01:01:37

Uh, I’m going to go with Israeli agents because they are everywhere.

 

Speaker 2 01:01:43

They’re everywhere. Yeah, Kim Are you serious? Israeli agents, right?

 

Speaker 3 01:01:55

You guys.

 

Speaker 1 01:01:59

went on the show of books, murder and dreams for all of the blood. I need to figure out the end of that song. All right. That’s another episode of Slaycation. If you liked what you heard, please leave us some five -star reviews.

 

Speaker 1 01:02:16

If you didn’t, don’t worry about leaving reviews. Yeah, don’t worry about the reviews at all. There’s plenty of other things to listen to. Remember, the Israelis are watching it. All right. Bye.