Speaker 1 00:12
Pack your body bags. We’re going on a slaycation. These are murders and mysterious deaths that happen while you’re on vacation. I am the husband, Adam Tex Davis, and I’m joined by the wife, the woman, the more Jim Davis.
Speaker 2 00:27
Thank you, honey. Bye, guys.
Speaker 1 00:30
And the always tolerable Jerry Culber. Hello.
Speaker 2 00:34
Jerry. Hi, Jerry. Hi, Kimmy. Always tolerable. Always loved.
Speaker 1 00:38
Thank you. So welcome to part two of passage.
Speaker 2 00:42
India yes let me just say if you have not heard the first part go back and listen to the first part well
Speaker 1 00:52
Where are we? We were, I think we should just dive right into it. Yeah, no reviews, no nothing. Also, by the way, just so you know, even though this is the next week, we’re recording this the same time as last week’s, so no movement on merch or anything like that, in case you’re wondering why we’re so lazy.
Speaker 1 01:06
But anyway, this is a great case and I am completely baffled. We left it with a great cliffhanger and where were we?
Speaker 3 01:17
We left off with Gerald Cotton and his wife were in India, right? He had complications from Crohn’s disease, which led to his untimely death at the age of 30. He died suddenly, yep. We’ve come back to Canada with the body, had a closed casket funeral.
Speaker 3 01:35
Closed casket, huh? Closed casket. Yes. Yeah. No, I always…
Speaker 1 01:40
bring that up because you guys had a moment.
Speaker 2 01:42
Well, we had a moment because it was only Jennifer, his wife and the doctors who saw his body. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 01:54
So Funeral, but on the sort of business side of things, there’s 70 ,000 plus Canadians who’ve invested money in Quadriga, which was Gerald Cotton’s company, up to his death. And Quadriga is a company that allows people to easily trade Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency.
Speaker 3 02:13
And there’s $250 million of funds that are locked up in Quadriga, only accessible by Gerald Cotton, who’s died. And nobody has any idea how to access this money or even exactly where it is. So typically with these exchanges, there is something called a Deadman switch, which is a system that kicks in.
Speaker 3 02:35
Usually it’s about 30 days after the master keys haven’t been used, which that’s sort of basic idea that if they haven’t been used in that long, someone has probably died.
Speaker 2 02:45
Usually it’s done where you have to regularly respond to maybe like an email and the system is to go in effect when the person does not respond.
Speaker 3 02:59
Does that require a second? It’s second, yeah, there’ll be a second in command who then gets sent a set of keys to access.
Speaker 1 03:05
So who is the second in the command? Is that partner, that shady guy? No.
Speaker 2 03:09
He had left. He’s gone. He’s gone. He is no longer part of the- Not sure? We’re not sure. Here’s the thing. It’s nobody because nobody gets any notification and they don’t get any information about the keys or the passwords.
Speaker 2 03:31
So you have all this cryptocurrency that people had given their life savings and just floating out.
Speaker 1 03:42
There I thought there was a notebook though sitting in a bank that was from the original version of Quadriga 2014
Speaker 3 03:49
Yeah, they’d updated it. What happened was once Bitcoin blew up and it went from handling $10 million to a billion dollars. We’re going to need a bigger notebook. Well, really what they were doing it on was some sort of digital spreadsheets, essentially.
Speaker 3 04:06
But you’re getting at a core point here when you’re asking who was the second in command, who was keeping track of all this stuff. There wasn’t really a second in command in the traditional sense because he was running this whole thing by himself alone off of his laptop.
Speaker 3 04:22
Just like nobody can ever say for sure that they saw his body back in Canada, nobody can say we’ve ever seen that he ever actually bought Bitcoin for anybody. You’ve heard of the accounting firm Ernst& Young?
Speaker 3 04:39
Sure. They do all the big audits and stuff. They’re brought in to look at the situation and try and figure out where is the money? How can we get to the money? They say, well, the biggest problem we have is that there’s no bank account, first of all.
Speaker 3 04:57
Even if you run a crypto exchange, you should have a bank account where you’re keeping customers US dollars.
Speaker 1 05:04
Sure. And people are giving actual money. Correct. So where is that money? That is the question.
Speaker 3 05:11
Oh, right. They don’t know there’s no because they can’t find a bank account. So then they’re like, well, let’s look at the company’s accounting records. That only works if the company has accounting records.
Speaker 3 05:20
And this company does not have accounting records.
Speaker 1 05:22
And that’s not unique to like crypto thing. That’s just they don’t have accounting records. Don’t they play taxes and stuff or?
Speaker 3 05:30
Not necessarily. Yeah.
Speaker 2 05:33
It’s not something that’s known for being, oh, what’s the word, above board? Above board.
Speaker 3 05:40
And this is a particularly egregious like, not having any bank account, not having employees, not having accounting records, but he had been, you know, not everybody who asked for their money, but many times when people ask for their money, they were able to get it would take weeks, right?
Speaker 3 05:59
But it was not, it wasn’t like over the course of Quadriga, he managed to like pay enough people often enough that it wasn’t ever flagged as being a totally bullshit situation.
Speaker 2 06:10
He was able to stave.
Speaker 3 06:12
Sort of stay one step ahead, I guess is the way you put it right
Speaker 1 06:15
Which is very Bernie Madoff -ish as well, right? Okay.
Speaker 3 06:18
So, meanwhile, I mean, let’s talk about some of the things that we know he did have, right? We know he doesn’t have a bank account or accounting records, but he did have 17 homes. 17? Some of them are rental.
Speaker 1 06:33
Okay. Something spread all around Canada and the U .S. Canada. Just Canada. He had.
Speaker 2 06:40
an airplane. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3 06:42
Yeah, he had a private plane. He had this, which I find interesting, he had a $600 ,000 yacht.
Speaker 1 06:48
$600 ,000 yacht. Why is that?
Speaker 3 06:51
I thought yachts were more than $600 ,000. I could afford a yacht at some point. I thought yachts were like more, $6 million. Suddenly a yacht seems affordable. He had an affordable yacht. The other thing he had was piles of cash laying around the house, everywhere.
Speaker 3 07:21
He explained it to the house. Which house? Their main house. The house that he lived with Jennifer. She had asked about that. She’s like, what’s with all the cash? He said, well, you know how banks are so averse to crypto.
Speaker 3 07:37
Which is true. A lot of banks will not open accounts like they won’t open account in the States because marijuana is legal, so you can’t open a bank account if you’re a dispensary. A lot of banks have that issue with crypto companies.
Speaker 3 07:49
But it sort of begs the question, the follow -up question is, why is there all this cash? Is that the people’s cash? Well, why does he have the cash? If it’s the people’s cash, it’s not like people were coming to their house and saying, here’s $1 ,000 cash, please give me Bitcoin.
Speaker 2 08:08
that he’s helping himself, I’m just saying.
Speaker 3 08:10
That’s what it seems to be, is that people are wiring in money to, I’m doing air quotes, the company Quadriga, and he is then taking that money out in the form of cash from wherever the money is getting.
Speaker 3 08:25
He did have this one ATM machine, did you see? Yes. The Bitcoin ATM, very suspicious. Somehow he’s converting the money coming in into cash, which is now laying all over his house. Like Scarface. I don’t have the picture.
Speaker 3 08:41
It literally looks like there’s the coffee maker, flowers, a stack of Canadian dollars. Stack Canadian money. Interesting. But she said I accepted that explanation because I knew that the banking system was averse to crypto.
Speaker 3 08:58
Okay, so there’s just cash in the house.
Speaker 1 09:01
plus Canadian money is so colorful, it like goes with our kids. It’s lovely.
Speaker 2 09:05
Before they took their trip to India, they had, I don’t know if they both did, but I know that he had done his will. And it turned out that when he died suddenly, Jennifer was, she stood to inherit an enormous amount of money.
Speaker 2 09:24
She would, she would be left the entire $9 .6 million estate. She was also named the trustee of his will. This estate included an airplane, like we just was talking about, a sailboat, 27 Lexus, real estate in Nova Scotia and British Columbia.
Speaker 2 09:49
And I think a Cherokee, I think they had a vehicle. Such a man, an Indian tribe. And a $100 ,000 trust fund for their two Chihuahuas.
Speaker 3 10:02
so that the Chihuahuas would be cared for in the event of his death. Okay, yeah. So thank God he was looking out for somebody.
Speaker 1 10:08
We know the names of the chihuahas. No.
Speaker 3 10:11
Cash and withdrawal.
Speaker 1 10:17
One is named Pongy, the other is named Perry.
Speaker 3 10:20
So she, so she was named, you know, basically his, what’s the term, benefactor, the trustee. So she would inherit everything.
Speaker 2 10:31
And this made everybody, particularly his clientele, very suspicious of her.
Speaker 3 10:40
because of the fact that when he died, there was $250 million of customer money at Quadriga. Like Kim said, some of these people, it was their life savings.
Speaker 1 10:51
unobtainable.
Speaker 3 10:52
Unobtainable because the cold wallet, the device that would allow you to access those funds and do the transactions was missing. He was the only person who would know where it was and he’s dead. And because Bitcoin and crypto is so secure, literally if you don’t have those keys, you can’t get the money.
Speaker 2 11:13
Right.
Speaker 1 11:13
And it didn’t help. That’s fucking crazy. Yeah. That’s fucked up. That’s fucked up. It is.
Speaker 2 11:18
Yeah, it didn’t help either that after he had passed away. They were still accepting deposits
Speaker 3 11:27
Right. Even after he died and after it became clear that this was missing. Right. Because they didn’t tell anybody that he was dead until 30 days.
Speaker 2 11:36
That’s right. Holy shit. January 14th, 2019. More than 30 days, like Jerry said.
Speaker 3 11:44
Their explanation for that is the lawyers for, for Quadriga and for her, their explanation was we thought there was one of these dead man’s switch, right? That within some period of time, but no longer than 30 days, somebody was going to receive the keys and automatically didn’t happen.
Speaker 3 12:03
And so at that point they realized, you know, as long as, so they didn’t, first of all, they, they didn’t necessarily know there was fraud at that point, right? She says she didn’t know why would lawyers wouldn’t know.
Speaker 3 12:14
Nobody can see there’s no bank accounts. His laptop is the only place where this whole business is run.
Speaker 1 12:20
laptop at this point.
Speaker 3 12:21
They have the laptop, but I’m not clear. It wasn’t clear to me that anyone could even get into the laptop because it was password protected. So she doesn’t know the password? No. I never saw anywhere that anybody could get into the laptop.
Speaker 1 12:33
you can.
Speaker 2 12:34
No.
Speaker 1 12:35
Laptops like Excalibur, whoever wields it is the king.
Speaker 3 12:39
Yeah, it’s like
Speaker 1 12:40
of Quadriga.
Speaker 3 12:41
So they were assuming that this key, that he had run this in some responsible way and there would be this second set of keys would show up somehow and they would be able to access and keep things going.
Speaker 3 12:53
But who would get them? That nobody knew. The lawyers were like, we don’t know, but there’s got to be somebody.
Speaker 2 12:59
Right, and they kept waiting.
Speaker 3 13:01
And then at some point they’re like, okay, keys ain’t coming. So then they have to tell everybody. And at that point, once they said, Oh, what’s that email?
Speaker 1 13:13
We regret to inform you.
Speaker 3 13:16
There’s no email because they don’t have access to any way to email. They had to just announce it on like Canadian news right through the news or the press.
Speaker 1 13:23
Everybody’s, yeah, right, everybody’s identity is-
Speaker 3 13:26
Everything’s locked up in the computer, and there’s no way to reach anybody about anything. Oh my God. So the announcement comes out, and people are obviously having fucking meltdowns, right?
Speaker 2 13:36
Right. And she’s getting death threats. Oh yeah. They’re coming after her. They are hating on her.
Speaker 1 13:40
I hate her right now. Yeah.
Speaker 3 13:43
Let’s assume she didn’t do anything. That’s true. It’s not her fault. It’s not her fault. But obviously you start saying that you really didn’t ask more questions about the cash. It starts to turn out that the cash was coming from third party processors.
Speaker 3 13:58
So Quadriga not only didn’t have bank accounts, didn’t have accounting systems, it actually had no way to actually process payments. So everything that it did, it was processing through third party processors.
Speaker 3 14:10
So you would send your money in and you thought you were sending it to, like if you send money to Citibank or Chase Manhattan Bank, they process the money. They put it in your account. They hold the money.
Speaker 3 14:21
When you want the money back, they process that transaction. Yes, there’s companies along the way that help with the transactions, but it all is happening within the bank system. With Quadriga, you sent your money in, but it was actually going to a third party processor who held the money.
Speaker 3 14:38
And so if he wanted, in order to get money from there, he could go and just take cash out because they had a bank account in one of his.
Speaker 1 14:46
many names, right? Oh, he had lots of names too. Oh yeah. Yeah. Here’s some of those names, Kim.
Speaker 3 14:55
was when it was like Dave Markey or something like they were really Michael Markey they were like really funny like very but they were like just very generic
Speaker 2 15:05
Right. I mean, it was nothing. Yeah. And he didn’t go in on them the way his partner did.
Speaker 3 15:11
No, he didn’t go and do legal name changes.
Speaker 1 15:13
So what was the point of having all the different names?
Speaker 2 15:16
Well, if you’re gonna be doing unscrupulous stuff, you’re not gonna use your real name.
Speaker 3 15:22
Like it would look weird if the guy running the biggest financial thing in Canada was like opening 20 accounts in his name to pull money out of these things.
Speaker 1 15:31
That’s how he’s doing it. OK.
Speaker 3 15:33
And they discovered he’d opened fake accounts and fake names on his exchange to move customer stuff into his account. Everything he was doing was just a shell game. He just kept moving things around.
Speaker 1 15:48
Once again, this completely restores all my faith in crypto and blockchain and Bitcoin. I can’t wait to get involved. How do I give them money?
Speaker 3 15:58
Quadriga .com. Thank you for our sponsor.
Speaker 1 16:02
still. All right. So yeah, I was curious about the wife. Like what is the story with her? I mean, she goes back to Canada. Obviously all this stuff with the money is happening. Is she actively trying to get the money?
Speaker 1 16:17
Is she just trying to go back to her life? Is she back on Tinder? What’s happening?
Speaker 2 16:23
Well, you know, she hires somebody, a cybersecurity specialist, to look into the situation. Like I said, she’s getting death threats and the people demanding their money are adamant that she’s involved or that she be investigated.
Speaker 2 16:42
And she was never formally investigated. And they are troubled by the fact that she didn’t have an autopsy done. Again, she was the only one along with the doctors that saw the body. One of the other things that’s interesting is there is sort of a cry to have the body exhumed.
Speaker 2 17:05
Just so they can pummel it. Just so that they can pummel it and get an identification.
Speaker 3 17:11
to his chihuahuas. Oh my God. Yeah, they want to try and do a DNA match because people are, okay. I mean, they’re up in arms. You asked on part one. Why India? Yeah. Why India? Why India?
Speaker 2 17:26
Why India Cherry?
Speaker 3 17:28
There’s an industry I’ve never heard of until we were looking into this case.
Speaker 2 17:31
believe it. I was like, what? Oh my God.
Speaker 3 17:37
I was called you. I was like, I’m sorry.
Speaker 1 17:39
What? Oh my God. An industry? An industry. An industry.
Speaker 3 17:43
Yes, an industry. Get ready. You’re going to want to write a movie about this shit. Yeah. There’s a whole industry called… Spill that tea, honey. The industry is called the death fraud industry. Death fraud?
Speaker 3 17:59
Death fraud. Okay. This is a big enough thing that it’s considered an industry particularly prevalent. Number one country for death fraud is the Philippines. Number two, India. Yes. And this part. Who’s number three?
Speaker 3 18:14
The particular part of India. Jaipur. Number three is Milwaukee.
Speaker 1 18:19
That’s what I was going to say.
Speaker 3 18:22
Nice. Thank you. I never get to say Milwaukee. It felt really good.
Speaker 2 18:27
Okay. But it’s a whole thing. Yeah, it’s a death fraud. Death fraud. Yes. Meaning…
Speaker 3 18:31
If you want to appear to have died, but not die, these are places where there’s whole systems of like doctors, officials, hospitals, funeral homes, that will- You could get fake documents. All of it.
Speaker 3 18:43
You could do like one -stop shopping. They will make it look like you’re dead and buried or dead and cremated, give you the certificates, and people can do this.
Speaker 2 18:53
thousand dollars you can even get a body
Speaker 3 18:55
Yeah.
Speaker 1 18:56
at a body. For only an extra thousand? For only an extra thousand? Which is a lot.
Speaker 3 19:00
in these countries, right? I mean, to that, right? So you could, if you wanted to go to India, pretend you died and have your body sent back to another country, it’s like, I think it was like eight to 10 ,000 total, is the cost.
Speaker 3 19:15
Wow. Yeah, and people do this when they wanna disappear because they’re being, you know, there’s a criminal case or they’re trying to get away from people or they’re doing insurance fraud. So it was very quickly noted on a site called Reddit.
Speaker 3 19:31
Right.
Speaker 2 19:33
Right, right. And the people that you would seek for these services are called facilitators.
Speaker 1 19:41
Death fraud facilitator. Yes. Now I want to say here. What kind of squirming do you need to get that job?
Speaker 3 19:47
You get a bachelor’s degree or is there a university of Milwaukee? We’re not saying that this is what he did, but this is a theory that came up almost immediately because someone said, it’s not just this current circumstance where he got a little head of his skis in terms of how much money he owed people versus how much he had.
Speaker 3 20:12
They said since he was 15, he’s been involved in things where someone he’s defrauded might want to come after him and kill him, right? Because of how much money he’s taken from people in these different Ponzi schemes.
Speaker 3 20:25
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 20:26
He was 15 when he started.
Speaker 3 20:29
Right. So there’s, there’s a 15 year history with him of like potentially pissed off people. Sure.
Speaker 1 20:36
So maybe this is why they went to India.
Speaker 3 20:38
This might be, this is a theory that he went to India and then someone’s like, well, but he had all these symptoms and they’re like, do you know how, you know, he had a history of Crohn’s disease?
Speaker 1 20:48
Did he even have Crohn’s disease?
Speaker 3 20:50
Well, so this is, that’s where my head went because the theory is like he had Crohn’s disease. So it’s very easy to obviously give yourself diarrhea and you pretend you have a cramps in India, right?
Speaker 3 21:02
Um, Jesus Christ. There goes our Indian rankings first location. Our ranking in India is non. We’re off the charts. It doesn’t matter. It’s non, non. Josh got it. Yeah. So that’s a theory is that, you know, it’s, it’s very easy to, to fake her death.
Speaker 3 21:26
And then, and then the fact that, why did they do it before the balloon trip? Oh my God. So then, you know, that theory right away, you go, well, that’s kind of crazy, right? But then you start to look at some of the things and it’s like, oh wait.
Speaker 3 21:43
So they did go to this hospital, but then she checked the body out of the hospital, back to the hotel, then took the body back to the hospital. They didn’t want it. And then she goes and pays to have it involved by a bunch of students at a, a smaller hospital.
Speaker 3 21:58
Right. And then a closed casket. So if you were trying to do a death fraud, these are kind of, this kind of screw ups though. Right. No, they’re not screw ups.
Speaker 1 22:11
But transporting a body back to a hotel and then running back to a school and- I know one’s seeing the body.
Speaker 2 22:16
There’s nobody that can back up what she’s saying.
Speaker 1 22:20
That’s a little Scooby -Doo -ish, right? You’re just running around with this body and moving, like, you know, it feels like- You’d be surprised at this. I’m surprised. I’m just saying, if you’re running a proper death fraud, like it should all happen at the hospital.
Speaker 1 22:31
They should embalm it. They should bring it back. It should all be one -stop shopping. And you shouldn’t have to schlep a body back to a hotel. They’d go to a school.
Speaker 3 22:39
Yeah, that is true and I’m not telling anybody how to run their death fraud business. I’m just, that’s fair. Well, I think that’s fair. That details them.
Speaker 2 22:47
murky. So that is one thing, right? The detail.
Speaker 3 22:49
hotels are murky. This is the most commonly reported version of it. But again, who’s telling us all of this? Who’s reporting this information? We’re not entirely sure, but where’s Reddit? Redditers. Reddit is so reliable, but where’s Reddit getting its information?
Speaker 3 23:05
So here’s the thing though, because I was like, all right, this does sound Scooby -Dooish. Why would the first hospital be like, take an unembalmed body back to your hotel? That just sounds crazy. Crazy.
Speaker 3 23:17
Right? And so someone had proposed a theory that the hospital had taken him in, and within a day, this young guy is dead, and his wife is like, I want to do an autopsy. I don’t want you to do an autopsy, right?
Speaker 3 23:35
And so they were like, great, that’s fine, because now the kind of onus is off of us. Because basically what they don’t want is to look like, because they’re a nice private hospital, and they don’t want to be known as the hospital where a young, healthy, rich American guy checked in and died in a day.
Speaker 3 23:54
And so by letting her take the body and sign the form, it’s not on our problem anymore. So that’s one theory as to why she was allowed to take the body. Sure. Okay. That makes sense. So that does not align with death fraud, obviously.
Speaker 3 24:12
No. Right. That aligns with grieving widow freaking out.
Speaker 1 24:17
Yeah, although autopsy, why not? Unless you’re like, I want to bring it home and autopsy there or. They didn’t do that. No, no, I know. I’m just saying.
Speaker 3 24:29
So wait, but you are getting to my next point, which is the question of why would you adamantly refuse an autopsy? And you know, you can have your reasons. You might have religious reasons. You might be like, you guys told me he died of sepsis.
Speaker 3 24:41
I don’t want to go through the whole autopsy in a foreign country.
Speaker 2 24:45
all of that.
Speaker 3 24:46
So there’s plenty of reasons.
Speaker 1 24:47
you could come up with for that. Right. So I mean, I, you know, look, this is location. So I thought there was the possibility that she killed them somehow or whatever. And she played a part in that, but this doesn’t seem like that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 24:59
Well, that’s not where the focus is. It’s certainly been brought up. It’s certainly been brought up. Oh, okay. Because I was thinking like, yeah, when the spouse refuses an autopsy, it puts a little suspicion.
Speaker 3 25:09
You could say, huh, he was having crazy gastrointestinal stuff, that she’d do something, but that’s…
Speaker 2 25:15
Or she’s in on it and is going to meet him in Honduras. Kim clearly thinks this is… I mean, I’m just saying. Right. Okay.
Speaker 3 25:22
Okay, so no, but to your point, like that was my next, my thought was like, well, was she in on it? But the thing is, he had changed his will, like, it was like just before the trip. Yeah, just before.
Speaker 3 25:33
Like right before.
Speaker 2 25:35
end of November to leave everything to her.
Speaker 1 25:38
Right where was it left before the Chihuahua’s?
Speaker 3 25:41
Oh. I don’t know. I have no idea. I don’t know. So it doesn’t, you know, it kind of doesn’t look like that, right? Right. And while a few people have speculated that maybe she had a hand in his death, it just didn’t, I don’t know, I didn’t see enough evidence of that.
Speaker 3 25:59
Did that seem like a?
Speaker 2 26:01
Yeah. I mean, you know, what was interesting too, was that she would end up forfeiting $12 million in assets. That is also a good point. Right. In response to these claims.
Speaker 3 26:12
to, yeah, she did not behave like someone who was, when she found out about all the fraud, she seemed genuinely like, what?
Speaker 1 26:20
Oh, okay. Like, hold on, start.
Speaker 3 26:21
Yeah, and as Kim just said, she had $12 million in the estate that she turned back to the bankruptcy court to try and distribute to the creditors. There’s really nothing here that would suggest she was at all involved or had a hand in his death.
Speaker 1 26:37
unless, of course, she gave a little bit of money to keep a lot more. We’ll find out after a quick break and a word from our sponsors. And we’re back. OK, so the wife, we feel.
Speaker 3 26:51
is, so the wife, look, she seems like a, this is my impression, she’s like a genuinely sweet person who got, the worst possible case here is that she was, is party to a faked death.
Speaker 1 27:07
So how did this play out? So she gave back a lot of money. She did. Yeah. But it’s not enough. No. To satisfy all the… Well, no. Oh, no, no, no. It hurts. It hurts. No, no.
Speaker 3 27:17
No, no, her, there was like 300 million. Yeah, there’s a rule.
Speaker 1 27:22
lot of money on the line. Did she sell the yacht back for $555 ,000?
Speaker 3 27:27
The world’s cheapest yacht.
Speaker 1 27:28
Yeah. Maybe that’s why they bought it. So it’s like, you can have it. Yeah. Did you sell off 17 or 16 of the 17 homes?
Speaker 3 27:36
Yeah, she forfeited most of the assets back to the court. One chihuahua. She was left with the wedding ring and $90 ,000. Really? Yeah.
Speaker 2 27:45
In fact, she forfeited $12 million and she kept $90 ,000 in cash, $20 ,000 in retirement, and a cheap Cherokee vehicle, and $15 ,000 in furniture and jewelry, including her wedding ring.
Speaker 1 28:06
I love that all the amounts exactly are all known.
Speaker 3 28:09
because it’s bankruptcy proceedings.
Speaker 1 28:11
I was gonna say that 90 ,000 in cash was their couch. It was just couch shaped piles of cash in their apartment. It’s like Cheech Chung.
Speaker 3 28:19
She did.
Speaker 2 28:19
You’d write a book, The Bitcoin Widow?
Speaker 1 28:22
coin widow. Yes. Okay.
Speaker 3 28:24
So, as part of this bankruptcy proceedings in which Jennifer forfeited all of these assets, they did have Ernst& Young, the accounting firm, was just trying to figure out, you know, where’s the money and how do we get to it?
Speaker 3 28:37
And the one thing, so they were able to look at five of these six cold wallets, these offline devices that store the accounts, and they said they can see the activity and these accounts in all of these drives were completely emptied out in the months, a couple of months before he died.
Speaker 3 28:53
And there’s one, the sixth wallet, that they can’t figure out what’s in it or where it is, and that’s the one that they think contains the access to the $250 million that theoretically is sitting in an account somewhere.
Speaker 1 29:09
Right. Well, if it’s not in the other five, it might be in the sixth. So these these called wallets are like like drives or drives. Gotcha. And where were those? Do we know?
Speaker 3 29:18
I don’t know where they found those. They did say that… How did they know there were six of them? They somehow found six of them. I don’t know where they were. Well, they found five of them. That’s right.
Speaker 3 29:30
They had five. The sixth one, as I understand, the sixth one is the one that they think still had activity. The one thing they did also notice is that all of the cold wallets they did find, which should have been in active use, had stopped having any Bitcoin deposits since like eight months before his death was reported, which is very strange.
Speaker 2 29:52
I mean, there, and there came a point too, where the economy of Bitcoin crashed, like it was losing money and people were freaking out and wanting their money.
Speaker 1 30:02
Yeah, they can’t get their money while they’re watching it go down legitimately go down right
Speaker 3 30:08
This is just a very simple math, because if Bitcoin’s going up and people are excited, and you’ve got, say, $300 million gets deposited in your Bitcoin bank, and then Bitcoin starts going down, and it keeps going up, so now it’s worth, say, that’s all worth $600 million.
Speaker 3 30:28
Right, so you’re leaving it there. Right. And now it starts to go down to where all of the Bitcoin in your bank is worth $500 million, and everyone’s like, it’s going down, we want all of our money. But that $300 million, maybe you never even used it to buy Bitcoin, maybe used $100 million of it to buy homes and yachts and live off of.
Speaker 3 30:43
Right, for a plane. So you only have $200 million, and you’re supposed to have $500 million. It just doesn’t work. And so that’s the situation that it seems like was happening here.
Speaker 1 30:55
Yeah. So they never did exhume the body.
Speaker 2 30:59
No, although I read somewhere that he was cremated. Yeah, I saw that too. I was like, I don’t know. What is going on?
Speaker 1 31:08
Oh, so there’s different accounts all over there.
Speaker 2 31:11
Yeah, which was very complicated and made trying to sift through all the information very complicated and it was just kind of perfectly designed to sort of keep you confused and make it harder to really get answers because you don’t know what the fuck is going on.
Speaker 2 31:33
There’s different accounts of everything.
Speaker 3 31:36
Because I was like, wait, someone said his body was cremated in India and someone else said it was cremated in Canada, but then most sources say that a body was flown from Canada. Right, right. But then of course the Redditors were like, ignore all the details of all the differing accounts.
Speaker 3 31:52
Just ask yourself if you were trying to create a confusing trail to disappear, wouldn’t you just cede the world with all of these differing accounts so no one can ever get to the bottom of anything?
Speaker 2 32:03
Right and bear in mind there is actually a name like it’s a thing. It’s called an exit scan. That’s a thing Yeah
Speaker 1 32:12
Exit scan. Exit scan.
Speaker 2 32:14
the store, run away. Right. Right. In fact, there was an interview with a gentleman by the name of Brett Johnson, who is like known as the godfather of cyber crimes. He’d been known to, he was a known shyster.
Speaker 2 32:28
Okay. And he had even suggested that the founding of Quadriga was a part of a big picture. It was a part of an exit scam. So it was always designed to get as much money as possible and then vanish.
Speaker 1 32:49
Now she is still, well, first of all, what does it say in the, in her book? Do we know? Like, what did she.
Speaker 2 32:55
And she, of course, denies any knowledge and is just as flummoxed as everybody else. Aren’t you still living in Canada?
Speaker 1 33:04
Yes. By herself? Yes. Okay. So it’s not like they rendezvous or whatever. So if she was in on it, it really was like a…
Speaker 2 33:13
But maybe she’s just waiting. No, I’m just kidding. Maybe somebody new comes into her life and, you know, they went and had plastic surgery and got a whole new look. And I’m just saying, I, you know, I’m not saying that that’s what’s happening.
Speaker 2 33:26
But what I’m saying is she’s denying it. She wrote a book denying it. Who knows? Who knows?
Speaker 3 33:34
She answers the phone, the journalist, she answers the phone now. So, journalists were saying when you call her, she answers the phone. Hi, it’s Jennifer, and I’m not on an island with Jerry.
Speaker 1 33:49
That’s how I answer the phone too.
Speaker 3 33:55
Same here. So they were able to figure out first some facts they were able to get to the bottom of for sure. They were able to figure out that he siphoned off 20 million dollars out of customer accounts to subsidize him and Jennifer’s lifestyle.
Speaker 2 34:13
And they lived lavishly.
Speaker 3 34:15
Very lavish. Except yacht -wise. Yeah. I meant to look up how much is a yacht. It feels like 600 ,000 just isn’t enough. Maybe they just bought it so they could play yacht rock on a yacht. I’ll look that up right now.
Speaker 3 34:25
How much is a yacht? How much is a yacht? Maybe I just have a very bad misunderstanding. Oh. Maybe it was a used yacht. Wow. You can often buy a small used sailing yacht for 15 ,000 or less. A small motor yacht is 50 ,000 to 100 ,000.
Speaker 3 34:42
And a larger motor yacht or a new 40 -foot day boat, I don’t know what that is, can easily run a million or more. I don’t know. I thought yachts were so much more. Oh, prices for new large yachts with motors can run from 6 to 15 million.
Speaker 3 34:59
That’s more what I was thinking. That’s what you were thinking. Yeah. Plus the running costs right now.
Speaker 1 35:03
Well, they didn’t want to, they didn’t want to look ostentatious. They want to, you know, they want the people in the marina to feel like they were trying to be.
Speaker 3 35:11
Big time, they didn’t want to Brewster’s millions it.
Speaker 1 35:12
Yeah, exactly. They got the 600 ,000. Just big enough to play some yacht rock and chill on the deck.
Speaker 2 35:19
to a little kettie audience. I mean, the interesting thing about this case, though, is that there really is a good argument to think that he could very well potentially be sipping pina coladas at some island he bought far away.
Speaker 1 35:36
I don’t know, is pina colada good for Crohn’s disease? If he even had Crohn’s disease. You can’t fake it.
Speaker 3 35:41
like Crohn’s long con. Yeah, you can. Stomach cramps. Ow, ow.
Speaker 1 35:47
All right, we’ll be right back with more of this perplexing case right after a quick word from our sponsor.
Speaker 2 35:56
And we’re back, and just as confused as we were before the break.
Speaker 1 36:00
OK, so India has a whole death fraud industry. Do they also have a new face face off? Do they have that industry as well?
Speaker 3 36:08
I didn’t see that, but I wasn’t looking for it. Really? I don’t know. You mean…
Speaker 2 36:12
plastic surgery and
Speaker 1 36:14
Yeah, just like someone who’s willing to like, you know, change your whole face.
Speaker 2 36:18
Look, I’m sure that there’s always a price, and he very well could have had some surgery done to change a look.
Speaker 1 36:29
And if he did, he could take that sixth hot wallet, take the money and just keep it. 100%.
Speaker 3 36:36
Yeah, nobody would even know it happened, really.
Speaker 1 36:39
Right. I mean, again, that’s the thing. Well, did I say hot wallet? I meant cold wallet. Cold wallet. Yes.
Speaker 3 36:44
Sorry. Where’s his laptop, by the way?
Speaker 2 36:47
That’s a very good laptop. Rudy Giuliani. I mean, his, his wife says that she had given it to a gentleman by the name of Alex as somebody that he did work with.
Speaker 1 36:59
like somebody he did work with. So that’s a weird name.
Speaker 3 37:03
Alex that he someone named Alex has the laptop somebody.
Speaker 2 37:06
There was somebody that she had reached out to that when he was in the hospital, she had reached out to somebody, and his name was Alex. But he did not have access, at least as far as I knew. So nobody could…
Speaker 1 37:20
You could get into this laptop.
Speaker 3 37:22
They did. They got the laptop. They got into the laptop. They cracked it. They found it. They cracked it. And? No trace of where the money is. 137 million.
Speaker 1 37:33
Searches for death fraud
Speaker 2 37:38
I mean, yeah.
Speaker 3 37:39
Yeah, they said we cannot, we can’t access the money or find the money. God dammit. Yeah, consider it a cold case at this point actually, I mean although technically the FBI and Canadian FBI, whatever they’re called, are still investigating, they have no idea.
Speaker 1 37:56
They are never going to find, they’re never going to find it. And so this was 2000 2018 and she has gone on to meet anybody or she’s by herself or single. Yeah.
Speaker 2 38:11
Does she still have the chihuahuas? I believe so. They’re living well.
Speaker 3 38:16
Yeah, they have $100 ,000. They’re the only, the Chihuahuas are the only one.
Speaker 1 38:19
90 and the drawers had a hundred. That’s crazy.
Speaker 3 38:26
You think they let her bother or anything? She’d gotten to the hospital a little faster with the laptop. Right. He would have given her.
Speaker 1 38:31
Well, she has more because each one gets 50, right? This is crazy. Yes. What do you think? What do you think?
Speaker 3 38:37
Because those are the three theories here are, number one, faked his death and then moved somewhere, right? So he’s, like Kim said, he got plastic surgery or whatever. That’s one option. The other option is he died, he actually died and lots of people were in on this fraud, did not expect him to die, and used his death as a perfect opportunity to kind of sweep everything under the rug.
Speaker 3 39:05
Yeah, and those are kind of the two theories. That three, those are the two.
Speaker 1 39:09
Gotcha. I mean, I guess there’s two versions of the first theory, which is, I mean, fake is death, wife in on it, fake is death, she’s not in on it. Right. So there’s like A and B. Right. It doesn’t sound like she’s in on it.
Speaker 1 39:28
No. The book she wrote, why did she write the book? Was it to sort of answer the questions and to try to deflect? I think it was to clear her name. Right. What did she call herself? The what? The Bitcoin wife?
Speaker 1 39:39
The Bitcoin widow. Bitcoin widow.
Speaker 3 39:42
Yeah, and she really does not want to ever exhume his body.
Speaker 2 39:48
She really is resistant to that, which I find interesting. What do you think?
Speaker 3 39:52
I mean, I wouldn’t want to exhume a loved one’s body. I don’t know.
Speaker 2 39:57
I would, I would, I would, I’m just saying, I would, I’d be like, here you go. That’s cause I don’t. That’s like, cause of this. I’m going to read her book. Right now? Not right now. I’m going to start reading it.
Speaker 2 40:14
I actually took it out of the library. You did? Yes, yes. Cause I want to read the whole thing. That’s awesome that you still go to the library. Well, it’s called the Bitcoin widow. Love, betrayal, and the missing millions.
Speaker 2 40:30
Oh, wow. But what do you feel about her resistance to exhuming the body? Do you feel that, uh, You isn’t.
Speaker 1 40:39
Jerry. Yeah, Jerry. Are you going to interrupt him while he talks or no? Yes, I am going to throw it.
Speaker 2 40:44
What do you think, Jerry? I want to know what you think. So tell me, what do you think?
Speaker 3 40:49
What do you thought? I think she probably has figured out that if you exhume the body and you test it, it’s not going to solve anything. That’s true. Because she, the way the internet works, even just in our research, the number of different versions of this story, like who’s the source of truth, right?
Speaker 3 41:06
Who’s telling us what happened with his body, with the hotels and the hospitals and the open casket or not? Who’s telling us what happened with the accounts and didn’t happen with the accounts and all like, there’s very few places in the story where you can put your finger on something and say it’s a fact and not have it kind of squirm away, right?
Speaker 3 41:24
So I think she has seen that the amount of attention this case has on Reddit is wild. I mean, it is an ongoing investigation as far as Reddit is concerned. Yeah, I want to check this out. And so she, I think, has figured out that if she exhumes and does the DNA testing, if it says it is him, everyone’s going to go, bullshit, she paid somebody to do that, or, you know, it’s some sort of scam.
Speaker 2 41:49
pay somebody to say whatever you want.
Speaker 1 41:51
Wouldn’t the government or wouldn’t, I mean, you said that this reached the level that the government was involved. Government is very involved. Was there ever any kind of like investigation going to India, talking to the doctors, talking to the students, showing a picture?
Speaker 1 42:05
Well, there was media. Media did. But not the government. Okay. But still, some journalistic outreach to try to, and they showed the picture, is this the person that came in? Is this the person? Yes, they did that.
Speaker 1 42:16
And they all said, no, that was him. Yes. Okay. So nobody is, nobody’s saying he didn’t go to the hospital. And nobody’s saying that that wasn’t the dead person. Right.
Speaker 3 42:26
Well, no, like lots of people saw him come into the hospital sick with Crohn’s disease. But once he died, he’s in a bag. No, but I’m saying somebody put him in the bag. Sure, but if the person who put him in the bag is part of the death fraud, they’re going to tell you they saw him go in the bag.
Speaker 3 42:43
So my point is like, whatever side of the story you want to believe is how you’re going to… That’s your perception. So the government went there and the guy said, yes, this is the picture of the guy put in the bag.
Speaker 3 42:53
You go, sure. They paid him $5 ,000 to say that. And if you could buy a body… You can buy it. You can pay a guy to say that.
Speaker 1 43:00
wouldn’t I would go you know death fraud comm I would say I want to do this and then I want to see who shows up and then like I’ll pay for the body and then like you’re bringing it Oh turns out this is the doctor
Speaker 3 43:12
Well, there was a whole case, a criminal case with lots of doctors around this issue, you know, in this country and in Vietnam and, you know, so these are, you know, the other side of it is, okay, she exhumes him and does a DNA test and it’s not him.
Speaker 3 43:30
Okay, now what? What does that solve?
Speaker 2 43:33
Well, it does make it clear that… Sequel to the book!
Speaker 3 43:38
Yeah, but who does that put more attention on? Exactly. That doesn’t solve her problems. Makes her problems worse. Did you? Yeah, I don’t think there’s any win. There’s no benefit. It’s like lose -lose for her.
Speaker 2 43:50
And you’re right. To your point, people are so entrenched in what they think happened that no matter what you do, they’re going to stick steadfast to what they believe.
Speaker 1 44:02
It’s interesting because this is the first I mean if it is a fake death definitely for first first leg
Speaker 3 44:08
Mm -hmm. We talked about that. We were like, is this we did know you and Kim and I were like, it’s not it’s not definitively a murder It’s a mysterious mysterious. It’s a serious category. Okay
Speaker 1 44:21
No, it’s great. I mean, great is in terms of a story, not it’s great that it happened and that everybody’s angry. Don’t come at me, bro. But it’s super intriguing. So what, like this orphanage and all that stuff that was supposed to happen, like is any of that
Speaker 3 44:40
So unfortunately, yeah, the orphanage guys kind of upset, you know, the guy who was running the orphanage in India, because they were supposed to be getting ongoing support. And because of all of this, Jennifer was not able to keep up the payments to help the orphanage.
Speaker 3 44:56
So they’re like missing doors they were expecting to have for rooms. It’s like half finished. They don’t, yeah, it’s, it’s kind of, yeah, it’s really sad.
Speaker 2 45:04
Right. Actually.
Speaker 3 45:05
I wish that we could actually put a link to the I think there might be a fund raising page for that orphanage maybe yeah
Speaker 2 45:12
In fact, I will post that.
Speaker 3 45:13
and post that in our slight caterers group and stuff. Because, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 45:16
in our regular, we get everybody to help.
Speaker 3 45:19
You know, but it’s like the orphanage that, you know, it’s certainly, I don’t want to say I have more compassion for the kids in the orphanage who got fucked because of this than I do for the investors who lost money because I actually equally feel for them because a lot of them were people who didn’t understand this and thought they were investing in like something legit and real, but we can’t help them.
Speaker 3 45:43
Right. Unfortunately, like we don’t really have that.
Speaker 1 45:45
They were over the age of 48. They were over the age of 40. Well, you know, there were.
Speaker 2 45:50
the older people that did try their hand at Bitcoin. It’s Nigerian.
Speaker 1 45:56
Princeton, get to them first.
Speaker 3 45:59
I mean, if you think about it, it’s like it’s one thing to have had your own cold wallet hard drive that had a bunch of Bitcoin that you’ve personally lost and feel horrible about that because you can’t get to your Bitcoins that have now grown in value.
Speaker 3 46:14
But this is like almost worse because it’s like you gave actual, lots of actual dollars to a guy and then you thought at the minimum you’d be getting your dollars back, right? If not grown and now that cold wallet has gone missing and you like, it’s like, you know, the money is there.
Speaker 3 46:32
It’s there somewhere, right? You just can’t get to it. That would drive me like I would, I don’t know how I would process that.
Speaker 1 46:39
Any way that AI or anything could ever figure out how to crack that thing and get that money, who knows? I don’t know.
Speaker 2 46:48
That’s the question. But we do know that there is a whole system in India and in this part of India that is dedicated to exit scams. If you want to disappear and have a new life somewhere, you can get a new birth certificate, a new passport.
Speaker 2 47:15
They can do that for you.
Speaker 1 47:17
But all right, we’ll put that information on this location website as well in case anybody’s interested in doing that.
Speaker 3 47:24
BestDeathFraud .com is the sponsor of today’s episode.
Speaker 2 47:29
No, it is
Speaker 3 47:30
with TripAdvisor, Royal Caribbean, and Milwaukee.
Speaker 1 47:33
Right. If you’re adverse to India, the Philippines is also a great place to do this.
Speaker 2 47:38
Yeah. I mean, and the thing is too, is that when you had mentioned about the people, those people that are facilitators, they don’t have a lot of sympathy for what they perceive as rich Westerners and their money investing.
Speaker 2 47:56
So they don’t have, they’re not conflicted.
Speaker 1 48:01
Well, we’ll be back after a quick break to give some takeaway and last thoughts.
Speaker 2 48:10
And we’re back. And what is our takeaway? Is there a takeaway? What do you think?
Speaker 3 48:15
I know what Adam’s takeaway is. Go ahead. Say it. I’ll tell you if it’s right. Adam’s takeaway is, I’m going to do your takeaway and then you can do my takeaway. Adam’s takeaway is, don’t invest in crypto.
Speaker 3 48:27
Thank you.
Speaker 1 48:30
Thank you. And Jerry’s takeaway is, Adam, don’t invest in crypto. Yes, exactly. Yeah. You know, I don’t want to be that curmudgeonly like, oh, these kids went there crypto and blah, blah, blah. I don’t want to be that guy.
Speaker 1 48:44
But at the same time, when it’s so… I mean, maybe it’s gotten better. But really, not really. I don’t know. It’s like you’re playing with imaginary stuff. And I know the case… Look, I was watching a battle on social media where people were like, oh, yeah, like the dollar is any better.
Speaker 1 48:59
The dollar is going down and the crypto is going up. So it’s like, you know, who’s the real…
Speaker 3 49:03
That’s an incredibly dumb art that actually that’s like saying yeah the dollar is going down But the price of Beanie babies is going up Beanie babies because Beanie babies and crypto are kind of the same thing
Speaker 1 49:16
I mean, I don’t know if people are getting money with crypto.
Speaker 3 49:19
And they’re only getting money with crypto because it gets pumped up by, insanely, by investor confidence or falls because there’s no investor confidence. There’s nothing … Well, she never is.
Speaker 1 49:32
anti -crypto.
Speaker 3 49:33
Yeah. Oh, okay. I wasn’t sure. No, I think crypto is good for the purposes that… There are purposes for it that makes sense, right? I agree with you. As a form of digital currency in cases where that makes sense because of the transactions or the people involved or the situation they’re living in in their country, right?
Speaker 3 49:52
Right. You could see someone in a country where you can’t open a bank account, but you have a phone and with that phone, you can get crypto and become part of trading with other people. That makes sense.
Speaker 3 50:03
That’s a good use of blockchain. But the idea that this…
Speaker 1 50:07
But is the stock market any less or more? Yes, because this is regulated.
Speaker 3 50:12
Well, it’s both, it is both regulated, right? And it can be tempered and not, but stocks also are, yes, there is a confidence thing that plays into the price, but stocks for the most part have underlying companies that actually make something of value, right?
Speaker 3 50:28
So they’re actually, they have, they’re creating jobs, they’re creating products that have value. The people use the products to make other, you know, do other things. So like Apple computers makes computers.
Speaker 3 50:39
Right. But like Bitcoin makes Bitcoin coins. And what is a Bitcoin? I do.
Speaker 1 50:45
when I hear like, mining a Bitcoin. This guy was mining Bitcoins. Yeah, it’s a thing. Yeah. No, I know. It’s just like, it’s a thing. Sounds crazy.
Speaker 3 50:54
Well, you mine the Bitcoins because the mining of the Bitcoins is what creates the keys and runs the system. And so by decentralizing that, letting people earn Bitcoin for doing that work. But that’s where you’re using crazy amounts of computing power that are actually bad for the environment because of the amount of power they use.
Speaker 3 51:16
Right. And so so it’s this weird thing where it’s like, what? Well, yeah, like so Bitcoin goes up. But why? And it’s just because lots of people want to buy Bitcoins. Right. And it’s so so that is what you call a bubble.
Speaker 3 51:33
Right. It’s like it’s a bubble and it’s a bubble. Because it’s connected to actual money and it’s not, you know, the tulip craze or beanie babies or Cabbage Patch dolls or whatever. It feels more real, but it’s actually.
Speaker 2 51:48
not. The interesting thing, too, is that it wasn’t lost on me that both the founders, Michael Petrine and Gerald Cotton, that they are shy story, that they have a history of conning people and taking their money and disappearing and just unscrupulous left and right.
Speaker 1 52:13
So not all crypto are common, but all common probably try to get into crypto.
Speaker 3 52:21
I guess I’d put it like this, banks sometimes fail, but when banks fail, it’s because usually someone was running a fraud, right, a scam. So like when the financial crisis happened in 2008, it’s because all of the big banks decided to willfully become part of a mortgage scam, right?
Speaker 3 52:39
That’s what happened, there’s no other way to put it. They all pretended they were selling mortgages that were backed by good loans and good homes, but they were hiding shitty loans and terrible loans inside.
Speaker 3 52:50
So that’s a scam. That happens once in a while. In the last year or two, well maybe the last three or four years, we’ve seen three crypto exchanges, Binance, FTX, and Quadriga all collapse, and all of them were basically run by a 30 -year -old with a laptop, right?
Speaker 3 53:09
You never hear of like, well Citibank collapsed today because the 30 -year -old with a laptop who was running it turns out was scamming everybody. Right. So it’s like, if you’re looking at a financial…
Speaker 3 53:21
More of a 60 -year -old. That’s right. But if you’re looking at a financial industry and you see like multiple quote unquote, air quote banks keep collapsing because it’s like one guy with a laptop who’s actually siphoning all the money off, like you gotta ask yourself like, is this a world that I wanna be part of?
Speaker 3 53:37
You’re rolling the dice, it’s not regulated, and it’s…
Speaker 2 53:41
I mean, you’re taking your chances, you really are. Like it is a true gamble because you literally are handing over your money. In some cases it was their life savings and just sort of rolling the dice.
Speaker 2 53:53
See what happens.
Speaker 3 53:55
Rolling the dice is the perfect way to put it, because people walk into a casino, and some people actually walk out of the casino with lots more money than they came in with, and some walk out with a lot less.
Speaker 3 54:04
Right. So, and that is, that’s crypto.
Speaker 1 54:08
What is your takeaway, honey?
Speaker 2 54:10
You know, my takeaway is that you don’t really know the character of the people that you don’t know their character. And that’s what makes me nervous. That’s what would make me nervous turning over my money, because who are these people?
Speaker 2 54:30
They are about that life of conning and taking that money and using it to live their best lives. They are going to live their best lives on your diet.
Speaker 1 54:42
So you think the whole marriage you think everything was leading up to this do you think like
Speaker 2 54:48
I think it would be naive to completely rule that out. I agree. I think it would be naive to completely think that he is dead and not somewhere living his best life.
Speaker 1 55:02
in this. Yes. Yeah. I like that. In terms of a story. Yeah. And they’ve never made a movie on this story. Been documented.
Speaker 3 55:13
documentaries, Netflix, there’s like a Netflix and a CBC. And you know what the.
Speaker 2 55:17
name is The Documentary on Netflix. Trust no one.
Speaker 3 55:25
No one. That’s funny. I mean, look, there’s also a version of it. And I watched it and it was. Was it good? Yeah. Did they talk about her being potentially in on it?
Speaker 2 55:34
I mean, they covered that. I mean, look, you know, the thing is, is that you’re just, it’s not naive to be suspicious because money makes people do things. Things they wouldn’t ordinarily do. They wouldn’t ordinarily do.
Speaker 2 55:49
And also, people will do a lot of crazy things if they will have a good financial return.
Speaker 1 55:56
especially if they’ve been conning people since they were 15.
Speaker 2 56:00
Yes, and his partner.
Speaker 1 56:02
Yeah, I got to agree with Kimmy here. I think, uh, yeah, it feels like this whole thing was a set up to get to India, get this thing, do this thing. The only thing that’s a little like, you know, refusing autopsies, refusing any kind of thing makes her look a little bit sus, right?
Speaker 1 56:21
But sus. Nice. But, uh, I don’t know, but it’s true. But otherwise it seems like, yeah, he did it. He did his scam and he got the money and he took the money and he ran and he’s somewhere else. I wonder, I mean.
Speaker 2 56:38
would I be shocked? No. This whole thing is set up. I mean, that there’s even a name. The exit scam.
Speaker 1 56:47
Right. Well, exit scam, death fraud, industry. Mm -hmm. Right.
Speaker 2 56:51
and that there’s a whole thing of like even how you would go about, you know, getting a different name, changing your identity.
Speaker 1 57:00
indicators only.
Speaker 3 57:01
The movie version is, this is like kiddos only. In the movie version, three years from now, she meets a guy and they fall in love and get married. She doesn’t know. She doesn’t know. So she sees that mole on his penis.
Speaker 3 57:14
How did you know about the mole on the penis? Exactly.
Speaker 1 57:18
All right. What a crazy, what a crazy story. Now. Thank you guys. That was really cool. We really covered a lot. I, I learned enough about crypto to know I’m not going anywhere near fucking crypto.
Speaker 3 57:32
crypto crypto’s like gambling in a casino where you’re not sure if the casino is gonna pay out it’s like it’s so many levels of It’s it’s like not even like I’m just gambling. It’s like you’re gambling in a place where you don’t even yet Is it even a casino right?
Speaker 3 57:44
Yeah
Speaker 2 57:45
Maybe it is a casino in a sense, because you give all your money, you don’t know if you’re going to come out with a return.
Speaker 1 57:55
Well, it’s kind of like podcasting.
Speaker 2 58:00
Oh my gosh, that is hilarious.
Speaker 1 58:04
Guys, this was an awesome ride and thank you for listening. Join Slick Haters Only or Slick Haters Only on Facebook. And my name is…
Speaker 2 58:13
out there, please feel free to show me what you’re making. Every time you say it, you know, I, I just, All right, got to end the show now. Bye. Bye guys. Bye.
