Ep 25. Survivor: Cancun

Speaker 1 00:00

Said is working they forgot to put butter on Kim’s roll and it’s fucking up our whole shit Kimmy where are we slaking today well

 

Speaker 2 00:09

Well, let me see, I need to pull it up.

 

Speaker 1 00:26

Pack your body bags. We’re going on a slaycation. These are murders and mysterious deaths that happen while you’re on vacation. I am Adam Tex Davis, your host and joined by my lovely wife, Kim. Hello.

 

Speaker 1 00:43

And my buddy and business partner, Jerry. Hey guys. And how’s it going? Good. Yeah.

 

Speaker 3 00:52

We’re back. It’s the first really hot day here in New York and I’m happy to be in this air condition studio.

 

Speaker 1 00:57

Yeah, that’s a good point. And look, you know, again, numbers are going up. People are listening to the show and enjoying it. We’re getting a lot of great feedback. Thank you for that. People are emailing us at slaycation .wtf.

 

Speaker 1 01:13

What does that stand for?

 

Speaker 3 01:15

Who’s actually slaycation at slaycation .wtf? Slaycation at, I forgot the I. I think, or wait, or is it info? We should probably find out. I think it’s info at slaycation .wtf. Oh, now you have to say info?

 

Speaker 3 01:28

Well, they can’t just email slaycation.

 

Speaker 1 01:31

Christian .wtf is the website. That is correct. And then they would click on a thing that says email us or contact us. I think that’s true. Okay.

 

Speaker 3 01:39

They could just email us directly by emailing info at like, I don’t know. I have no idea. I’m going to ask, I’m going to ask the webmaster.

 

Speaker 1 01:49

But get the people are figuring it out because we’re getting some great email, you know what?

 

Speaker 3 01:52

But you know what, it’s because they’re going to the website, and yeah, there’s a thing on the site. This is so fun. I love that we don’t know how this works. We did not design the site, so I’m going to just…

 

Speaker 3 02:03

We could… Right. This is clearly, we’re all very dialed into our process.

 

Speaker 1 02:11

This is why they gave us the WTF.

 

Speaker 3 02:15

Correct. That is correct. Okay, wait, wait, wait. I’m loading the site. Oh, it says contact us. Okay, if you go to slaycation .wtf and you press contact us, let’s see what happens. No, nothing. Okay. I just got an alert.

 

Speaker 3 02:29

There’s a little form. No, I’m just kidding. A little form comes up and you can enter whatever you want to tell us. So ignore everything I said about the email address. There may be an email address, but it appears that the best way to do this is to click contact us at slaycation .wtf.

 

Speaker 3 02:42

Yeah, there you go. Why is it called .wtf?

 

Speaker 1 02:46

Because we couldn’t get .com. No, that’s not. Oh, well we chose it.

 

Speaker 3 02:53

Well, we couldn’t get .com. That’s true.

 

Speaker 2 02:56

We don’t need it. We have WTF.

 

Speaker 3 02:59

I don’t remember how we found that WTF was even a potential main, like that’s how, that’s, I think we might be the

 

Speaker 1 03:15

the only one I’ve never seen it before. Yeah, I’ve never seen it. Well, nobody else wants it. Why would you want to be associated with WTS? I don’t know what’s wrong.

 

Speaker 2 03:21

with being associated with her.

 

Speaker 1 03:23

If you’re, you know, a brand, you know, it’s like, you know, they should all be that WTF.

 

Speaker 2 03:30

pretentiousness in the, I’m so above it all, it’s like, no, you’re not.

 

Speaker 1 03:34

life insurance, WTF. It doesn’t seem right. It doesn’t seem

 

Speaker 3 03:37

Metro Hospital, WTF.

 

Speaker 2 03:40

I don’t know, I kind of think it’s on brand. I mean, yeah, for us, for us, yeah. We are all.

 

Speaker 1 03:46

If you don’t know your website, you don’t know your email, yes, it’s perfectly on brand for you. Did you have a review you wanted to read, Jack?

 

Speaker 3 03:55

It’s funny there. So first of all, please keep reviewing the show if you if you’re listening review it helps us. Yeah only five stars

 

Speaker 1 04:03

There’s actually a distinction. There’s reviews, and then there’s people writing us messages, and the messages we’re getting are incredible. We love these emails from our RSV indicators. Thank you so much.

 

Speaker 3 04:12

But the reviews are great because they actually help get the show in front of more people. So if you haven’t left a review, or even if you have, leave another one or leave a good one. You know, but I always find the these reviews to be funny.

 

Speaker 3 04:23

Like there was one that just said, less Kim.

 

Speaker 2 04:31

That means more Kim, that’s what that means. That means more Kim, K -I -M.

 

Speaker 1 04:39

I think they were trying to say- Or Kim. That’s what that means. They were trying to say little Kim. That’s weird. And then they just fucked it up and they said less Kim.

 

Speaker 3 04:45

Well, because then the review is a little less came. I’m like, just stop saying less, just a little.

 

Speaker 1 04:50

You know, I saw that, I didn’t even bring it up to Kim’s attention because look, I love that you love the show, but why you got to fuck with my marriage?

 

Speaker 3 04:58

Well, that that’s what’s funny is like they say a little less Kim, please and thanks. Other than that, I love the show news flash. You can’t love the show. If you want less Kim, she, she hosts the show.

 

Speaker 3 05:13

Like she’s the backbone of the show.

 

Speaker 2 05:16

Who said that?

 

Speaker 1 05:17

Who said that? Yeah, I saw the less Kim won. I was not going to bring that to Kim’s attention. That’s hilarious. No, read it.

 

Speaker 2 05:25

That’s it. I know. Your reaction is exactly what I was hoping for. It just said more. It just said less.

 

Speaker 3 05:29

Kim. You read it as more Kim. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. More fucking Kim.

 

Speaker 1 05:34

Yeah, duh. I couldn’t believe that. I saw that. It was like, really? That is hilarious.

 

Speaker 2 05:39

That’s how I know I’m doing my job. Because somewhere, somebody’s like less of her. I’m like, no. Hey, somewhere someone knows your, someone’s.

 

Speaker 3 05:47

They’re calling you out by name also. It’s like, as Adam once pointed out, if they’re not using your name, they’re not listening, if they’re using your name. Right. They’re listening.

 

Speaker 1 05:56

Are you trying to ruin my home life? How could this help me? How could this possibly be a good thing for me? Oh, come on.

 

Speaker 2 06:04

Honey, you know we’re gonna laugh back.

 

Speaker 1 06:05

Oh, of course, of course, you know, nobody gets their feelings. You know what they’re like, when you’re going crazy at home, I could be like, yeah, have it a little less than him, please. Like you never said that, please and thanks.

 

Speaker 1 06:19

So the one that I liked, um, in a, in a, in a reverse way is, uh, somebody who wrote comedy is a gift. Try as they might. Some people just aren’t funny. Is it me? Am I that funny? And yeah, by somebody Bren, Elise, Bren, a less, I don’t know.

 

Speaker 1 06:38

And I was like, you know, what is also a gift having a sense of humor. You know, it’s not the same thing. Uh, you know, you don’t look, I’m sorry.

 

Speaker 3 06:47

That was the review? The review was, yeah. I thought they were going to say, comedy is a gift and these people have it. This show. That’s…

 

Speaker 1 06:54

Try as they might. Some people just aren’t funny.

 

Speaker 3 06:58

I thought that was gonna go on to say but these three people have said no that’s it. That’s it. That’s it That’s the complete I think I actually think the review got posted without the rest of it I want to say we have the gift.

 

Speaker 3 07:09

I was just I’m gonna go with that. I’m really hurt by that right

 

Speaker 1 07:12

I was I was a little hurt too because I was just like, you know, if you have no sense of humor, you write something like that. So I’m like, whoever this person is, I don’t think you’ve ever made anyone laugh intentionally.

 

Speaker 1 07:23

And I’m just like, you know what? You don’t have to think we’re funny. You don’t have to think the show is funny. But who writes that? Who writes

 

Speaker 3 07:31

that. Well, also why even write that? Yeah. Like if you’re not thinking it’s funny, go listen to something else.

 

Speaker 1 07:37

And who uses the phrase, try as they might?

 

Speaker 3 07:41

I don’t think I ever tried to be funny. Just comes naturally, occasionally.

 

Speaker 1 07:47

or we’re just having a conversation.

 

Speaker 3 07:49

That’s what I’m saying like we’re not we’re not trying right as we might I mean we’ve already spoken about this review longer than we need to

 

Speaker 1 07:57

Good point. Okay. So with all that in the rear view mirror, let’s have a little more Kim and say, Kimmy, honey. Yeah. Where are we slocating today? Well.

 

Speaker 2 08:10

Today we will be slaking in beautiful Cancun, located in the coast of the Yucatan Peninsula and one of the most popular tourist destinations in Mexico. Cancun, with near perfect weather year round, is famous for its stunning beaches, turquoise water, nature and ancient ruins.

 

Speaker 2 08:33

There is no shortage of things to do. Cancun, Mexico provides the perfect family getaway with its many family friendly, all inclusive resorts. We went to one. We did. Club Med Cancun. And it was so nice.

 

Speaker 2 08:51

But we didn’t go with a, it was just the two of us, which was nice.

 

Speaker 3 08:55

Does it allow children, or is that…

 

Speaker 2 08:57

I think they think that one did. Yeah. Yeah. But I don’t think we saw.

 

Speaker 1 09:02

do research to write a movie that takes place in a Club Med.

 

Speaker 3 09:06

Club Dead. It was Club Dread.

 

Speaker 1 09:09

But there is yeah Club Dead would be that’s the name of this episode by the way. Yeah. Well anyway

 

Speaker 2 09:14

reel it in, reel it in.

 

Speaker 3 09:16

Okay, sorry.

 

Speaker 2 09:19

Real it in. Real it in. Sorry. Anyway, so it seemed a perfect choice destination for a much -needed getaway with a very busy couple Monica and Bruce Beresford -Redmond to spend some quality time with each other and their children, five -year -old Camilla and three -year -old Alec.

 

Speaker 2 09:40

It was an opportunity to reconnect and a perfect excuse to celebrate Monica’s upcoming birthday and their upcoming wedding anniversary, which was April 8th. So the timing couldn’t have been more perfect, right?

 

Speaker 1 09:56

Yeah. So do you know how old she was turning 42? She was turning 42. So like a five and eight year old, you said, or a five and a three year old, a girl, a little girl was five.

 

Speaker 3 10:05

Even the little boy was still-

 

Speaker 2 10:06

have to say, vacations with small children don’t feel like vacations. I’m just saying, it may for some.

 

Speaker 1 10:14

But a lot of times these places inclusive places might have some child care

 

Speaker 3 10:20

And also he, so two things to mention about that, because I was wondering about that too. So I looked up what some of the family had said before, other relatives, mom and dad and sisters. And so Monica owned a restaurant in LA called Zabumba, which was like an LA, like nightclub, like clubby restaurant.

 

Speaker 2 10:38

on Venice Boulevard in Los Angeles. Why you have to say all the names.

 

Speaker 1 10:43

I’m sorry.

 

Speaker 2 10:44

I just I like it because I’m crazy. Okay, because I’m crazy

 

Speaker 1 10:49

unless Kim was right.

 

Speaker 3 10:51

Please and thanks.

 

Speaker 2 10:54

That’s why you’re going to get more Kim, just ruin everything.

 

Speaker 1 11:00

I’m glad you like the show because it’s over.

 

Speaker 3 11:03

So, she owned this restaurant, so she was working all the time. Bruce was the, he was a TV producer in Los Angeles. He was a guy who’d worked on a lot of survivor seasons, but he was best known for being the co -creator of Pimp My Ride for MTV.

 

Speaker 3 11:22

Pimp My Ride, nice. Pimp My Ride, yeah. With his childhood buddy that he went to high school with.

 

Speaker 2 11:26

and a three -time Emmy nominator.

 

Speaker 3 11:29

I mean, like us, an Emmy nomination winning producer or another way to put it, an Emmy losing producer like us.

 

Speaker 2 11:37

Three -time Emmy nomination three times Yeah

 

Speaker 1 11:44

It was going to be ironic that the show you worked on was Survivor.

 

Speaker 3 11:47

It actually might be. And he actually, so he, and the total side note is he created that show with a guy named Rick Hervitz who he grew up with in Woodcliff Lake, New Jersey. New Jersey. Which is very close to.

 

Speaker 3 12:00

Not that close. 20 minutes. Just saying, a lot of these murder people seem to come from, murder episodes come from your area. There was a New Jersey connection. Yeah, yeah, a lot of New Jersey connections.

 

Speaker 3 12:12

Anyways, so just back to my point is, so they’re both really busy people. Extremely. Extremely, and they just really, this was an opportunity not just for them to connect and be together, but they also had both expressed they wanted to spend more time with the kids.

 

Speaker 3 12:28

Right, I mean. And so, on the one hand, yeah, it’s like bringing two little kids doesn’t sound like vacation, but if you don’t, you know. But they also had, these people had a nanny, like that’s how busy they were.

 

Speaker 3 12:38

Yeah. So I think they saw this as a chance to. Exactly.

 

Speaker 1 12:41

any come on vacation with them? Not that I’m aware. Yeah, I’ve never seen them. And was he around the same age as her? Thank you.

 

Speaker 2 12:47

He was a couple years younger. Bruce would meet the beautiful Brazilian national and former beauty queen at the restaurant that we were just talking about. They met in 1997 and smitten with the lovely entrepreneur and the good food kept him coming back.

 

Speaker 1 13:11

good food I got one of the two that’s that’s that’s wait wait wait wait

 

Speaker 2 13:16

Wait, wait, wait, wait. What? Which- You don’t cook.

 

Speaker 3 13:20

You don’t cook that much. We all know you don’t cook.

 

Speaker 2 13:22

No, that’s not true. I look just because I don’t enjoy cooking doesn’t mean I don’t. What do you what do you I’ve never heard you say you’re cooking anything. What do you mean a hellofresh isn’t exactly cooking.

 

Speaker 2 13:31

Well, it’s not hellofresh, it’s green chef.

 

Speaker 3 13:35

that is cooking. Yeah, that is cooking. Thank you.

 

Speaker 1 13:38

and everything is there, there’s a card that tells you what to do. She does a great job with it. That’s cooking, dude.

 

Speaker 3 13:45

I’m gonna break it down. I’m giving you cooking

 

Speaker 2 13:49

Anyway, they would hit it off and realizing that they had a connection, they began dating. And the couple would marry two years later on April 8th, 1999. The pair would start a family welcoming their first child, their daughter Camilla in 2005.

 

Speaker 2 14:08

And two years later in 2007, they would welcome their son, Alec. And just as we were talking about, both Monica and Bruce were very busy professionals. And Monica was a very hands -on in the daily operations of her restaurant.

 

Speaker 2 14:25

And this, of course, meant a lot of balls in the air, juggling, a thriving business, children, a husband. And Bruce’s career, too, was flourishing. Like we just mentioned, he was a three -time Emmy -nominated producer on the hit show Survivor.

 

Speaker 2 14:44

And knee -deep in creating and developing a new reality game show called Crash Course. Have you guys heard of this before?

 

Speaker 3 14:53

It sounds like a hundred TV shows. I mean, it did sound familiar.

 

Speaker 2 14:56

very generic.

 

Speaker 1 14:58

is

 

Speaker 2 14:59

Was it a dating show? No, it’s essentially just getting two people together to drive a course.

 

Speaker 1 15:07

Oh, so like a driving competition.

 

Speaker 3 15:10

And you know how I feel about driving competitions, I love them.

 

Speaker 1 15:15

Did he have to go to, like, the island? Like, was he an on -set producer for Survivor? So, like, he’s probably gone for long stretches. Yeah, he was, he was, like, in Borneo or wherever.

 

Speaker 3 15:24

over there shooting. Yeah, he would come out, he was there, he would help come up with the challenges and produce them.

 

Speaker 1 15:28

Right. I wonder how it feels to be there like living in luxury while those people are all suffering because you get to go back to your like hotel or whatever.

 

Speaker 2 15:36

shock that they have contested. There’s not enough money that I’m gonna be in the wilderness roughing it. There just is not enough that you could offer me that that’s

 

Speaker 3 15:49

Really? So if you could win $5 million, you wouldn’t go hang out. No, I’m sorry.

 

Speaker 2 15:53

She wouldn’t I know that for a fact. I wouldn’t it’s like getting my sister on a roller coaster There’s no amount of money that I’m sure you guys have something that there’s no amount of money that is going to Remotely entice you to take part in whatever endeavor

 

Speaker 1 16:13

here I was I thought you knew us yeah I’m trying to think of what that would be I’m just trying to think of what the number is look there are things I don’t want to do but if the number is a

 

Speaker 2 16:26

right. Well, I guess there is a right.

 

Speaker 1 16:30

The thing, that’s a distinction though. Paying someone a lot of money to do something crazy is one thing. Going on a game show where there’s a good chance you’re gonna lose.

 

Speaker 3 16:39

Yeah, that’s the thing.

 

Speaker 1 16:41

you all that shit.

 

Speaker 2 16:42

You really want to be there. Yeah. I’d be there for five minutes, which is just another reason. Can we vote her? She would do the first contestant?

 

Speaker 1 16:48

to devote herself off the island. She would take that.

 

Speaker 3 16:50

that immunity stick and start beating herself with it. In breaking, she’s like, I don’t want it.

 

Speaker 1 16:55

She’d blow out her own torch.

 

Speaker 2 16:56

And leave. Yeah, no, that is correct. Where, Jeff? Yeah, see, that’s, my husband knows me. Anyway. Anyway, so suffice it to say that the couple was not seeing or spending a lot of time with each other.

 

Speaker 2 17:10

All right. And as with anything, if it isn’t cared for or attended to, it will begin to suffer. Right. And this couple- Oh, were they kind of going through a patch? Yeah, this couple was a really, really, really, really bad patch.

 

Speaker 3 17:27

Oh, in fact, neither of them would ever say they had the perfect marriage, but they were very much in love with each other According to them and people that knew them But it had come out just before this trip that he was a cheater Yeah, oh But so was she that’s oh so just to just to let that settle and I just want to throw Oh

 

Speaker 1 17:51

Why do you leave that out, Tim? That’s interesting, right?

 

Speaker 3 17:54

He is the worst. I’m like, she’s not wrong, but She went first. Yeah Unclear. That is multiples for both of them. Yeah multiples. Yeah

 

Speaker 2 18:06

They were not known to.

 

Speaker 3 18:08

Yeah, they’re not it’s not great this marriage

 

Speaker 1 18:12

That’s not terrible. Unless they just make a deal. Like, you know what? No, they- No, that didn’t feel like- That wasn’t bad.

 

Speaker 2 18:17

the understanding.

 

Speaker 3 18:18

So she but for some reason this most recent one seemed to have really triggered her

 

Speaker 2 18:23

think it was because it was a more long -term relationship. And I think that it seemed that he had been involved in this for some time. And that this person, they had had some history.

 

Speaker 3 18:36

What came out was she monica found some emails and texts that made it very clear that that’s a fair was happening he tried to apply it and then he had to admit it and she goes from

 

Speaker 1 18:47

or who’s on the computer.

 

Speaker 2 18:49

He’s e -mails, right?

 

Speaker 3 18:51

She saw it in his email. It wasn’t clear whether she was like digging or just randomly can’t, I don’t know.

 

Speaker 2 18:56

I mean, it was 2010 too, not that there were cell phones, but there wasn’t just

 

Speaker 1 19:02

time. Yeah.

 

Speaker 3 19:03

So that had come to light and so this was an opportunity to mend and just be close together and just try and move past that together. Or meet some new people. Or meet some new people.

 

Speaker 1 19:16

Okay, so it’s a family vacation so there’s a lot going on there’s a lot yeah, and the kids are are they aware of the

 

Speaker 2 19:24

five and they’re three. And I think they were aware insofar as what their cognitive development at that time their age would allow them. I think children definitely sense discord.

 

Speaker 3 19:39

They probably.

 

Speaker 1 19:39

And yeah, I don’t think they would have understood weird though. What kind of fight do you have when you’re both cheating?

 

Speaker 3 19:45

Well, they weren’t both cheating at that point. She had stopped. Yeah, apparently that stuff was in the past. And I think, again, I don’t have like this much insight into their relationship, but. The C’s fucking.

 

Speaker 3 19:58

The C’s fucking, yes, we call. The U .N. has called for a C’s fucking. So, the, sorry, politics, politics.

 

Speaker 2 20:12

I’ll see.

 

Speaker 3 20:17

The UN resolution calls for less Adam and a little more Kim.

 

Speaker 1 20:22

Hello, Kim. I’d like to rescind my list, Kim.

 

Speaker 3 20:27

So it seems like they had had these issues in the past and had decided let’s be loyal to each other and then the show would happen again with one of them.

 

Speaker 2 20:36

lot of the, sorry Jerry, but I think a lot of the issue too was the fact that he had agreed that he was going to end the affair. And then she had discovered, apparently from a conversation that she would have with her sister while on this vacation, that he was still in contact with.

 

Speaker 1 20:54

Yeah, I mean some affairs are hard to end I hear

 

Speaker 3 21:01

Oh my God, we’re never getting through this case. Sorry, sorry, I’ll stop. What is going on? So this affair had been discovered. They had gone on this vacation to try and mend things. And there was actually an argument that people in the room below them heard, which was a very loud argument between Bruce and Monica, which we can surmise was about the fact that the affair was still happening and that he was confessing.

 

Speaker 1 21:30

One question, they were at an all -inclusive resort type place?

 

Speaker 3 21:35

It’s called the Moon Bay Resort. Moon Bay.

 

Speaker 2 21:37

Wait. No, did I say that wrong? I think it was the Moon Palace Resort. Sorry. So it was the Moon Palace Resort, room 7816. you

 

Speaker 3 21:47

Okay. Yeah, that’s correct.

 

Speaker 1 21:49

So it’s like one of those big luxury five -star. Yeah, you never have to leave.

 

Speaker 3 21:53

eat there, you can go to the pool, take out the water activities and all that, take out water activities.

 

Speaker 2 22:00

Exactly. And just as Jerry had mentioned, there was a family below that was hearing commotion. Okay, to the…

 

Speaker 3 22:09

to the extent that, and this family was where they were, the Cook family, the Cook’s family from England, and they had actually complained to security about the noise they were hearing, which Bruce, when they came to the, security came to investigate, Bruce said, yeah, my wife and I had a little argument about the screaming and the crazy sounds they’re hearing.

 

Speaker 3 22:29

That’s just me and my kids were roughhousing. We play these roughhouse games, which all seemed and seems very reasonable. So the first, you know, I’ll just keep going on the timeline, Kim, jump back in with me here.

 

Speaker 3 22:43

So the first few days there were very much what you’d expect from a family on vacation in Cancun. Yeah, they go to like an eco park, an archeology park. They visit an aquarium called Zellha, I’m probably saying wrong, but they just did all of these different outings and they would come back and play at the resort.

 

Speaker 3 23:02

And by day four, which was April 5th, right, the family was like, okay, we need a break from all the running around.

 

Speaker 2 23:11

It’s sort of a low key.

 

Speaker 3 23:12

It was a quieter day. And they actually were, Bruce and Monica weren’t necessarily on the same page about what to do that day. So she actually decided she would go out, this is on April 5th, the fourth day they’re there.

 

Speaker 3 23:23

She said, I’m gonna go just have a me day. I’m gonna go just go into town, shop. Just have some me time. And Bruce actually was like, you know, that sounds great because he doesn’t get to see the kids as much as he wanted.

 

Speaker 3 23:38

So this is a chance for him to have some dad time with the kids, so they spent the day at the resort. They just hung out by the pool, you know, ordered some food, had a good time.

 

Speaker 1 23:47

This is before or after argument day after after so they were arguing like right day one. Mm -hmm. And

 

Speaker 2 23:54

A number of people had seen them, sort of arguing.

 

Speaker 1 23:57

it out, now they’re having family vacation. Allegedly.

 

Speaker 2 24:00

Yes. Yes. Yes.

 

Speaker 3 24:02

I mean, they’re having issues, but they’re working on it. But there was a family that reported hearing them argue from the room below. Later, there’s restaurant workers from the resort who say they saw Bruce and her arguing outside the restaurant.

 

Speaker 1 24:17

can ask, are they like literally fighting all over the place on the beach while they’re snorkeling, screaming at each other? Yeah. Okay.

 

Speaker 3 24:23

Well, the only specific reports we have are outside the restaurant that the worker saw, and then bickering, and then the people below have made that complaint. So she goes out, and she leaves. This is an odd detail, but she doesn’t take her passport.

 

Speaker 3 24:41

Yeah, that was strange for her phone. The passport, I’m like, okay, I guess you do that in the same way, but she doesn’t take her phone. And her phone, she doesn’t take because she was always breaking her phones, and her phone was cracked.

 

Speaker 3 24:53

So she’s like, I don’t need my phone. It’s cracked anyways. So she leaves without her phone. Now it gets later into the night, and she’s not back. Now, normally you might sound the alarm bell at eight or nine o ‘clock if your wife isn’t back, but because she is like a night owl who runs this like nightclub -y place, Bruce actually figures, you know what?

 

Speaker 3 25:14

She’s having more me time. She’s probably out somewhere, having her by and having drinks. She’s very social. She’s probably living it up. He’s like, let her have her phone, so he doesn’t sound any alarm bells.

 

Speaker 3 25:25

He does wake up a couple of times during the night, and she’s not there, and he actually goes out and looks around the property for her, doesn’t find her, and does this a few times. In the morning, when she’s still not back, at that point he’s like, he reports her missing to the hotel.

 

Speaker 3 25:39

Right. So on the morning of April 6th.

 

Speaker 1 25:41

Holy molly, the whole night. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, this man is a, no, he has a higher constitution than I do for this kind of stuff.

 

Speaker 2 25:51

You’re like, okay, I know she likes it also like leaving the phone oof pushes

 

Speaker 1 25:55

have a phone so it’s not going to reach you.

 

Speaker 3 25:57

She has a history of someone who likes to be out and hang out, so the reports are missing.

 

Speaker 2 26:02

But it was interesting because apparently he had reported first to the American consulate.

 

Speaker 3 26:08

Oh, I didn’t even, I didn’t see that.

 

Speaker 2 26:10

Yeah, it was I had read that somewhere and I thought that’s interesting that he would do that the next morning. Yes

 

Speaker 3 26:17

Yes. Well, I mean, I guess if you’re in Mexico and you’re an American, that might be your first thing, because maybe at least you’re going to someone you know. Right. That’s true. Right, because you don’t know the Mexican police and the hotel.

 

Speaker 3 26:29

But I didn’t know that. I could see why one might do that. But regardless of what order they went in, by mid -morning, the American consulate, the hotel, and the Mexican police were all aware that she was missing.

 

Speaker 3 26:42

The sisters, her two sisters, fly over to retrieve the kids, because the kids now are like, where’s mommy? We’re confused. So, and then Bruce calls his friend, this guy, Steve Smalley, who’s his best friend, and his wife actually is Monica’s best friend.

 

Speaker 3 27:02

So he lets him know, and Steve files a missing person’s report with the LA County police. Interestingly, at this point, did you see this? The sisters, when that report was filed, they shared immediately with the LA County police a letter from Bruce to the woman he was having an affair with.

 

Speaker 2 27:22

Did.

 

Speaker 3 27:23

Interesting, right?

 

Speaker 2 27:24

That was fascinating.

 

Speaker 3 27:25

Yeah. Like they were like, they right away wanted to be like, by the way, he’s, he’s a cheater. Yes. And then here’s this other letter he wrote to her saying, I’m a liar. I’m sorry. They did spill the tea.

 

Speaker 3 27:34

So they like, they were like, for whatever reason, still a little unclear to me. The sisters thought it was important to share those details.

 

Speaker 1 27:42

As in like, Bruce might be trying to get rid of Monica so he could be with this other one. That seems to be where they immediately were heading. That seems like a sister’s type of logic, I would think, you know.

 

Speaker 2 27:54

Because they’re like, especially if the sister didn’t like him.

 

Speaker 1 27:56

Yeah, well.

 

Speaker 2 27:57

I thought he was a cheating son of a bitch.

 

Speaker 3 28:00

And they did not like him. Right now.

 

Speaker 2 28:02

Not a fan.

 

Speaker 1 28:02

No. These are younger sisters, older sisters.

 

Speaker 3 28:05

I never saw the ages, so I don’t know. They actually are always just referred to as the sisters. It’s weird. I was like, I don’t know what their names are.

 

Speaker 2 28:13

there’s two of them we right I was just gonna say know that there’s two of them right

 

Speaker 1 28:18

that they’re they’re they’re helpful sisters they’re not like wicked sisters like step sisters are from like the fairy tales

 

Speaker 3 28:24

I think it depends on who you are in this story, whether you consider them. But point being, they were… Very anti -pris. They were very protective of their sister, of course, and protective of the children.

 

Speaker 3 28:35

So they’re being good sisters and good aunts, right? Okay, so they…

 

Speaker 1 28:40

take the kids and they leave Cancun yes okay yeah and Bruce stays yes and then the smallies come

 

Speaker 3 28:47

The smallies did not come to Cancun.

 

Speaker 1 28:50

Okay, so he’s just telling them what’s going on.

 

Speaker 3 28:52

He was just letting him know because they’re all so close. Gotcha.

 

Speaker 1 28:56

So what’s happening? We’ll find out right after this quick break.

 

Speaker 4 29:01

law. The Hargan women seem to have it all from the outside looking in we were blessed. My mom was amazing. But as detectives would soon learn there was a lot going on inside the Hargan household actually and I’ve been calling my mom in the House in Helen.

 

Speaker 4 29:17

No one’s answering. 63 year -old Pamela Hargan gunned down in her own home or youngest daughter Helen lay dead upstairs patrol when they arrived assumed or thought that they

 

Speaker 3 29:29

there might have been a murder -suicide.

 

Speaker 4 29:31

but for the detectives on the scene. There were things about the scene itself that were concerning to us on day one. Who would want to kill their mother and their little sister? There is no boogeyman here.

 

Speaker 4 29:43

It is exactly who we think it is. I’m Peter Vance, sat from 48 Hours. This is Blood is Thicker, the Hargen Family Killings. Listen to Blood is Thicker, the Hargen Family Killings, wherever you get your podcasts.

 

Speaker 1 30:04

All right, we’re back with more Kim.

 

Speaker 2 30:07

Let’s give people a break, Jerry.

 

Speaker 3 30:12

Uh, okay. Uh, I’ll just keep going. Um, jump in anytime.

 

Speaker 2 30:17

Thank you.

 

Speaker 3 30:18

Yeah. So, okay, now it’s three days after she’s disappeared, it’s April 8th. Right. He’s literally the guy, Bruce is just bouncing back and forth from the consulate and the police, he’s trying to find any leads, figure out what’s happened to his wife.

 

Speaker 3 30:29

And they’re questioning him. Right. Of course, of course they’re questioning him because they have heard there was arguments, the sisters have made everyone aware that there was this other mistress, and so…

 

Speaker 1 30:40

Please question the husband. Right, of course. As they say. But it makes sense.

 

Speaker 3 30:44

as they should. Kim questions the husband even if there’s not a murder or crime committed. So he comes back to his room at the Moon Palace, walks in, there’s three police officers from the three Mexican police officers and they say to him, we think you killed, we think you killed your wife, but we can make that go away if you just give us some money.

 

Speaker 2 31:07

Right, yeah. Right.

 

Speaker 3 31:08

He claims they asked him for money to, quote unquote, take him off the suspect list. At this point, no one has said to him anything about that his wife is dead. This is the first time someone, like of course he’s worried about that as a possibility, but this is the first time someone’s literally said those words out loud.

 

Speaker 3 31:25

So a female police investigator comes and gets Bruce and she walks him away from the room and she says, listen, we found Monica’s body.

 

Speaker 1 31:35

This is another Mexican, another Mexican invest. Yeah. Pulls them aside and says that we found her.

 

Speaker 3 31:41

We found your wife’s body. Oh, wow. She is dead. We found her body in a sewage well about 75 yards from your room here on the property. Whoa.

 

Speaker 2 31:52

Yeah.

 

Speaker 4 31:54

Yeah.

 

Speaker 2 31:55

was April 8th 2010 on her birthday. Her birthday.

 

Speaker 1 32:00

When’s their anniversary? Isn’t their anniversary like…

 

Speaker 2 32:02

April 8th, 1999. Wow.

 

Speaker 3 32:09

Yeah. So she, at this point, things are much worse, obviously, because you’re always holding out hope that you’re going to find the person. And at this point, it’s clear that something horrible has happened.

 

Speaker 3 32:23

Unless he killed her. Unless he killed her, right? But even then, you know, I mean, it’s- Well, you don’t want her to find her. Okay. They found her in a sewage. A sewage. Yeah. They call like a sister.

 

Speaker 3 32:35

It’s like the place where the sewage water goes into there. Right, right.

 

Speaker 1 32:39

It seems like it’s not like somebody disposed of it.

 

Speaker 3 32:42

No, it’s the complete body in this well, and it had been discovered by a hotel employee. So at this point, the suspicion on him escalates, and the Mexican authorities confiscate his passport. And he’s told…

 

Speaker 1 32:58

He didn’t have a chance to pay off those cops.

 

Speaker 2 33:01

too late. Missed that window. And he was told to stay in town.

 

Speaker 3 33:06

Yeah. Told. Now, just to be clear on that point, because I think it’s an interesting point. It is an interesting point. Because you see in a movie and they’re like, don’t leave town. And it’s like, well, you just told me not to leave town, but is that illegal?

 

Speaker 3 33:19

Is that illegally binding? Or are you just saying, we really like you to not leave town? It’s an important question that becomes very important to this because he’s like, all right. And town meaning what?

 

Speaker 3 33:34

Stay in Cancun. Cancun, I guess? They’re basically like stay in Cancun. Right. So he is like, okay. He’s like, I didn’t have anything to do with this. Like, I’m distraught that my wife is murdered. I need to go be with my kids.

 

Speaker 3 33:51

And so he- He goes back to the US. He goes to the US. And how do you go to the US? He just goes through the border with his license, because you can do that if you’re a US citizen. You don’t need your passport to come back into the United States.

 

Speaker 3 34:02

So he goes through the border with his license, and he goes through the border with his license.

 

Speaker 1 34:02

He’s cascading his passport to keep him there, and I don’t need him. Well. Yeah, well.

 

Speaker 3 34:06

What’s interesting is, you know, he gets back to the U .S. and when the cops in Mexico go to ask him more questions and they find out he went back to the U .S., they demand that the United States extradite him.

 

Speaker 3 34:19

Back to Mexico. To Mexico. To face charges. And his attorneys are like, what, like he’s not under, he hasn’t been charged with anything. And they’re like, well, we told him not to leave. And they’re like, so?

 

Speaker 3 34:32

Right. There’s no, you don’t have any legally binding, compelling reason for him to stay. And the Mexican authorities actually admit that. They’re like, yeah, I guess we did kind of just say it. We didn’t actually say we did not issue a formal demand that he remained, yeah, yeah.

 

Speaker 3 34:51

Oh well. Yeah, and that’s it. All right.

 

Speaker 2 34:56

But on May 31st, 2010, Mexico does issue an arrest warrant for murder.

 

Speaker 3 35:06

Yeah. They officially charge him with the murder of his wife.

 

Speaker 1 35:10

Okay.

 

Speaker 3 35:11

Based on? It’s based on a few things. I mean, their theory is that he somehow strangled her and disposed of her body in the sewer. Okay. Okay. They also, so in Mexico, to get a probable cause warrant, the bar is extremely low and it’s very low for extradition as well.

 

Speaker 3 35:30

It’s that you have to show probable cause. So they also say they have motive or potential motive because multiple people saw them arguing. Right. And they’re there.

 

Speaker 2 35:39

Penny had said something about them arguing before their trip about his infidelity, and she had heard him discuss getting life insurance.

 

Speaker 3 35:51

Yes. There was a discussion. He said we should have different life insurance.

 

Speaker 1 35:55

We’re going to fight like this. We should at least be heavily insured. It’s sure that we.

 

Speaker 3 36:04

Well, did you, by the way, Kim, did you see any evidence that I saw a few places say that there was talk of life insurance policies? Yes. Was there actually life insurance policies?

 

Speaker 2 36:14

I did read somewhere that there was apparently a $50 ,000 policy and a half a million dollar policy.

 

Speaker 3 36:25

So the probable cause is that there was these arguments, the nanny corroborates

 

Speaker 2 36:31

the resort had reported seeing them argue and even reports of him being aggressive.

 

Speaker 3 36:39

Yes. With her. To her, yeah. And then they say, the police say, we found some tiny traces of blood in their hotel room. There’s some footprints that might match his near the sewer well thing where she was thrown in.

 

Speaker 3 36:52

And he went in and out of his room like 10 to 15 times on the night of April 5th, is what the key card system at the hotel shows.

 

Speaker 1 36:59

Right, but he was like saying he was looking for yeah, okay

 

Speaker 3 37:02

But all of these taken together count enough for the authorities to say this is probable cause and we want them extradited.

 

Speaker 1 37:10

Okay. All right. That seemed like a tough challenge to get a body out of a hotel room in a popular resort and thrown in a sewer, but you know what? They do stuff like that on Survivor. It’s one, it could be a challenge.

 

Speaker 3 37:25

Yeah, so as Kim said on May 31st, 2010, the Mexican authorities have issued an arrest warrant and connection with the murder and they have initiated extradition proceedings to get him out of Los Angeles and back to Mexico.

 

Speaker 1 37:40

Right. Is that going to fly or they’re going to.

 

Speaker 3 37:42

Normally wouldn’t normally wouldn’t but for some reason whatever reason i couldn’t figure out why we agreed to it like and in november and.

 

Speaker 2 37:53

pretty, it didn’t seem like there was a big pushback. At least it all seemed to just go seamlessly. A lot of time did go by.

 

Speaker 1 38:04

And the producers of who wants to be a millionaire and dealer no deal. We’re like, yeah, take them

 

Speaker 2 38:12

He would be arrested by Los Angeles, he would be arrested in Los Angeles by U .S. Marshals though in November, November 16th, 2010. Oh, wow. Early into November.

 

Speaker 1 38:25

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Arrested and brought back to Mexico. Not yet. No.

 

Speaker 3 38:30

No, when you get arrested in the United States, you don’t immediately get sent to Mexico, like there’s a process for extradition. So as soon as he gets arrested, his sisters, the two sisters, her sisters, freeze Monica’s assets so that Bruce cannot get to them to use them for his legal bills.

 

Speaker 3 38:51

And one interesting thing to side note here is that right before the trip, when she found out about the affair, the cheating ways were still going on, she, before she confronted him, pulled all of their money out of their bank account and put it in her bank account.

 

Speaker 3 39:07

And she said to him,

 

Speaker 1 39:10

I’m laughing because Kim does that anyway.

 

Speaker 3 39:13

And her threat at that point was you can give me a divorce. Give me a divorce and we’ll split the money. Or I’m just gonna keep it all until we figure our shit out.

 

Speaker 1 39:26

Right. I mean, I love that their life is a game show. They’re literally living a game show.

 

Speaker 3 39:33

It’s like the golden ball, which is a great chance.

 

Speaker 2 39:36

told the she alerted the kids school that their kid was not to be dismissed to Bruce.

 

Speaker 3 39:43

Oh, yeah, she said some stuff about his behavior and stuff to make it that he couldn’t pick up the kids. Oh, wow. Yeah. So she was basically restricting access to the money and the kids until such time as she felt that things were…

 

Speaker 1 40:00

Correct. And all these obviously feel like things that would make a guy want to kill her. The same. Really? What? Why are you guys looking at me?

 

Speaker 3 40:09

I mean those are like basic like divorce proceeding things like I don’t think most guys in divorces are like maybe I should just kill her

 

Speaker 1 40:18

I’m not saying that she’s like, what? I’m just saying like, she’s really like, she’s taking all the money. This is why we’re WTF. She takes the money out of the account. You can’t pick up the kids. You can’t, I mean, she’s making him.

 

Speaker 3 40:28

I don’t think you jump from that to like, maybe I should murder my wife. Like that’s like, we got to work shit out or like figure it out. Like that’s like.

 

Speaker 1 40:35

Well, maybe this guy doesn’t think that way. Okay. I don’t know. I mean, she’s, she’s been killed or we don’t know. All right, all right, all right, all right.

 

Speaker 2 40:46

I am real.

 

Speaker 1 40:47

All right.

 

Speaker 3 40:47

All right, really, really, really. So point being, so all the money was in her account. So when her sister, and her sisters knew that because she was close to her sisters. So they’re like, let’s freeze all that shit.

 

Speaker 3 40:58

So like, he can’t use that for his legal defense.

 

Speaker 1 41:01

But some of that was his money is what I’m saying you go to your account and like you got to zero It’s all gone. You go to the school to pick up the kids. No, we’re not allowed to

 

Speaker 3 41:09

It’s like this is like the Michael Douglas movie of the game a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It’s everything is gone

 

Speaker 1 41:16

you open your book and it’s not a book, it’s just a pretend book. Like, you know, right?

 

Speaker 3 41:25

remember this guy’s, you know, he’s cheated a lot. Now she’s found out that he was cheating for a long time. And he was supposed to end it, but he didn’t. So she was justifiably, I don’t know if you want to say, I don’t know if vindictive is the word.

 

Speaker 3 41:39

We’re angry. She’s angry, but she’s also, she’s trying to pull the only levers she can with this guy at this point, right? Because like… But she didn’t come out and just say…

 

Speaker 1 41:46

I want a divorce.

 

Speaker 3 41:48

Well, she gave the ultimatum. She gave the ultimatum. Right. She said, if you want half your money, we’ll split the money if we get a divorce. Or if we’re going to work this out, I’m holding onto everything until we figure it out.

 

Speaker 1 42:02

I could be wrong, Kim, but it feels like if you’re that point, like guys several times said I’m going to end this affair, doesn’t end the affair, keeps it going, is lying to you continually, it’s just time for divorce.

 

Speaker 2 42:13

I agree, but when in situations that are very emotionally charged, it’s not uncommon that people will just be in complete touch with their worst selves, and they’re not thinking about, okay, what is a healthy way for us to resolve this?

 

Speaker 2 42:36

How can we move forward in the best interest of our children? That’s what you should think. But most times, it’s like, how do I make him suffer? How do I make her suffer?

 

Speaker 3 42:49

You know what, Kim? You just made me remind me of something we forgot to mention that may actually help. She also found out that he bought gifts for the girlfriend out of the money. Oh. So he had bought like a fancy watch for this lady.

 

Speaker 3 43:07

There was like a history, like while she was pregnant with the first child, he was like buying gifts for her. So I think that the money thing may have also been like, when you say like bringing out your worst self, okay, I’m just gonna show off your access to all of it.

 

Speaker 3 43:21

All of it.

 

Speaker 1 43:22

Wow, he was cheating as far back as five years. Mm -hmm. Oh, wow. Okay

 

Speaker 3 43:27

And, you know, I think also they were in love with each other. Like, I think they were really I think everything I saw seemed like they despite all the craziness that they actually did really love each other and wanted things to work out.

 

Speaker 3 43:42

Right. I mean, I guess I mean, look.

 

Speaker 2 43:44

It makes sense. Whatever it was between them, you know, maybe there was something. And, you know, I think like when passions run deep like that, as much as you love, you can hate and that can turn on a dime.

 

Speaker 1 44:02

Okay. All right. So let’s get back to the store. So he’s been arrested. He’s now in custody in

 

Speaker 3 44:07

Los Angeles. And so, of course, he’s going to fight the extradition, right? Yeah.

 

Speaker 1 44:11

So, he has no money to hire a good lawyer or he got money.

 

Speaker 3 44:16

There’s so many.

 

Speaker 2 44:17

I don’t know if it was his parents, friends. Right, but his parents are very, you know, they of course are there and they’re supporting him. Jeff Probst. And advocating.

 

Speaker 1 44:26

Is he helping? Any of the past winners? Of Survivor? No. Richard Hatch? Definitely not. That was a first season of Survivor. Tom Laidlaw. Tom Laidlaw was on Survivor, but he lost.

 

Speaker 3 44:41

from that podcast will change.

 

Speaker 1 44:44

Yeah, our friend’s podcast. It’s great. If you like hockey, check out Full Change.

 

Speaker 3 44:49

That will change. So yeah, so he fights extradition. Actually, first he fights bail. He wants to get out on bail. So two weeks after he gets arrested, LA federal judge is like, absolutely not. You’re not coming out of jail because of the probable cause stuff.

 

Speaker 3 45:04

And then back and forth, back and forth until mid July 2011. So gosh, like a year, I guess, after almost maybe more than a year after he’s picked up in LA, U .S. magistrate Jacqueline Schulzehn, I think I’m saying her name right.

 

Speaker 3 45:21

She determines that he should be sent to Mexico because there’s enough circumstantial evidence to show probable cause that he might have murdered his wife. And so the basis for that was that the U .S.

 

Speaker 3 45:35

federal prosecutors do a review and they said that the Mexican authorities showed enough sufficient evidence, such as the potential for collecting insurance money, sole custody of their children, and continuing extra marital affair, that all of these showed motive and they had a few pieces of probable cause.

 

Speaker 3 45:54

So let’s extradite him.

 

Speaker 1 45:55

Does exhibit drive him in one of the pimped out rides back to Mexico? Deep cut. Thank you.

 

Speaker 3 46:02

for that.

 

Speaker 2 46:03

So, on February 8, 2012, so this is actually two years after he was, yeah, picked up by the U .S. Marshals. And he’s claiming innocence the whole time? Yes. He’s steadfast in his innocence. So February 8, 2012, he is sent back to Mexico to face the music.

 

Speaker 3 46:28

Yeah. And the music’s not pretty. So they go in a lower, they take him in a low rider back across the border, right? Through a Mexican jail. Mexican jail is not, is not great, obviously. Like, and the way Mexican jail works, as he’s described it is kind of, you kind of work your way up.

 

Speaker 3 46:42

So like, it’s not a jail where like you’re putting a particular cell and like, stuff like, like he’s sleeping on the floor. He has to like find scraps of toilet paper to use. He actually does describe this.

 

Speaker 3 46:54

He’s like, I feel like I’ve, I’m in like the worst version of like a challenge that I would have created for, for, for Survivor.

 

Speaker 1 47:01

They should be survivor of Mexican jail. Yeah.

 

Speaker 2 47:04

And he was also on 48 hours sort of documenting his… Oh, the show 48 hours. Right.

 

Speaker 3 47:13

He was given, yeah, he was actually given permission by the Mexican authorities to talk about his experiences in the Mexican jail on television. Oh, wow. He was even given a little like GoPro camera, and then, yeah, it was weird, they shouldn’t have, and he obviously didn’t have, it just wasn’t a great thing for him to be doing.

 

Speaker 3 47:35

And then as soon as it aired, the like higher up Mexican authorities were like, what the hell? And we’re like, you shouldn’t have done this to him. And he’s like, you gave me permission, but they stripped him of all the privileges he’d earned.

 

Speaker 3 47:48

They took away everything, and he had to like start at the bottom again.

 

Speaker 1 47:52

He lost his Emmy. They took an Emmy.

 

Speaker 3 47:55

He never got to you, like us. Oh, right. He was an Emmy nominated. He wasn’t an Emmy winner. Like us, he tied with Oprah. So he’s in jail, and while he’s in jail, the rule in Mexico is that you’re supposed to like have your trial done within a year.

 

Speaker 3 48:14

But this case is so weird because the prosecution puts together this very specific timeline, and they say, when we found her body, there was a blow on her temple. There were scratches on her skin. There were marks on her neck.

 

Speaker 3 48:30

And so we believe that what happened is that he killed her early in the morning, about April 5th. Okay. She never went on spa day. That wasn’t a thing, right? Right, according to them. Like she was dead early in the morning.

 

Speaker 3 48:44

Gotcha. From a blow to the head and then strangulation.

 

Speaker 2 48:47

would say that it was unusual that she would be out that long shopping and that she didn’t particularly care for spas.

 

Speaker 3 48:57

They did say that, but then her friend Dana Smalley, Steve’s wife, I think her name is Dana, was like, no, she loved going shopping in Spa. So the sisters were painting a picture of her, like she would never want to be away from the kids that long, but her best friend was like, nah, that’s why she has a nanny.

 

Speaker 1 49:16

She’s in the 0 .001% of women who don’t love spas and shopping.

 

Speaker 2 49:20

Well, I think, you know, I think also too, your vacation self is different than your day -to -day self. Right.

 

Speaker 3 49:27

But also I would say to the sisters, she probably does like spas and shopping, but she’s also probably after four days with this guy who she’s been having issues with and the kids. Any one of them. It doesn’t feel far fetched that she would.

 

Speaker 3 49:41

Yeah. Okay. So the prosecutor, the prosecutor.

 

Speaker 1 49:44

I guess they couldn’t find any spa person who said, oh, yeah, she came in to, you know, I helped

 

Speaker 3 49:49

Look for you know, I don’t know if they looked for that I don’t know how they would even find that because it’s kancun’s a big place and she didn’t have her phone So there’d be no way to sort of

 

Speaker 1 50:00

out on the news and say, like, did anybody see this?

 

Speaker 2 50:03

find that a lot of things investigators could have done.

 

Speaker 3 50:07

Didn’t do. Dodge rack. Oh, all right. Sure, there’s lots of things like, I don’t know, collecting and keeping DNA, not having the room cleaned the next day. Yeah, just little things.

 

Speaker 1 50:18

It’s just little, little things. Little tiny things. It is Mexico, after all. Right, you know. Well, it’s not just Mexico. How about checking under the fingernails? Yeah.

 

Speaker 2 50:25

Check you under the fingernails. I’m just saying when you get the body. Check for, okay. So wait, wait.

 

Speaker 1 50:30

We’re jumping around. Yeah, sorry. All right. So wait.

 

Speaker 3 50:33

Let’s go back to he is in Mexican jail. Okay, and the case is being built again is being built by the prosecutors

 

Speaker 1 50:40

And you’re saying it’s supposed to take place in a year, but instead it’s taking much longer.

 

Speaker 3 50:44

Yes, because the first case they lay out is that they believe that he killed her early the morning of April, April 5th, blow to the head and then strangled her, something heavy, some sort of heavy object, and then strangled her and then put her body somewhere in the room and hit it during the day while he was having the day with the kids.

 

Speaker 3 51:05

So her body was somewhere out of sight of the children, hidden away. And then later that night when the kids went to sleep, he figured out a way to transport her body out of the room. So they say he either carried her two flights down the stairs, across several patios and public areas to the sewer, or they say he might have even thrown her body over the side of the balcony, then gone downstairs and then collected it and dragged it through the patios and public areas to the sewage well.

 

Speaker 1 51:37

What floor were they on? Two. Okay, so it wouldn’t be that. It’s still crazy. It’s still crazy. Of course, but I’m saying like.

 

Speaker 3 51:43

And if that was the case, you would find blood and other things. Yeah, on the ground.

 

Speaker 1 51:47

and smashed up.

 

Speaker 3 51:47

So, then they say he got to the sewer well, which had a cement block cover that weighs a little more than 250 pounds, which he single -handedly removed, according to the prosecutors. He then dumped her body inside, partially covered it up, and returned to his hotel room.

 

Speaker 3 52:06

Then he, while the children were sleeping, he cleaned up all of the blood, tissues, saw clothing that the murder had created, so the room was spotless. And then the next morning, he called the hotel, saying, my wife disappeared.

 

Speaker 3 52:20

And then the prosecutors entered the case by saying, the facts and circumstances surrounding this murder all point to Bruce Barrisford’s arrest.

 

Speaker 1 52:28

This is their case. This is their case. And somebody goes, this is stupid.

 

Speaker 3 52:33

Well, it’s not just somebody, it’s first the coroner, right? I mean, the coroner in Mexico says, well, first, by all indications, she wasn’t killed that morning. The coroner says she was probably killed around a little after 11 p .m.

 

Speaker 3 52:47

that night. Oh! Coroner also says it’s highly unlikely she was killed in the room, almost impossible, because her body shows no signs of, this is a thing called lividity. Yeah. Which I’d never heard before.

 

Speaker 2 53:01

Did you know that term? Yeah, well, if when you’re in a position, it’s where your body will start to discolor because the blood will pool and settle.

 

Speaker 3 53:11

because you’re just laying, the body’s in one spot, okay. So the coroner says there’s no signs of that, which would occur if the body had been laid in one place in the hotel room all day. So the coroner says, that’s out, yeah.

 

Speaker 3 53:22

So the coroner’s like, she was killed at or near the sewer well.

 

Speaker 1 53:28

tip if you hide a dead body in your hotel room go back every hour and just change the position a little.

 

Speaker 3 53:33

It’s a great tip, Adam. Thank you. We always give a great takeaway on the show. So then they’re like, okay, let’s also look at things like that there was scratches on Bruce’s neck, right? So the prosecution’s like, oh, clearly there was a fight and she was defending herself, but they did not bother taking any materials, Kim mentioned, from under the fingernails.

 

Speaker 3 53:59

And Bruce also says that those were scratches from some of the outings they’d done as a family. And the kid even testifies, oh yeah, the little girl says, I even helped Daddy put band -aids on those earlier.

 

Speaker 3 54:11

Right.

 

Speaker 1 54:13

He’s a sick guy by the way

 

Speaker 3 54:15

Yeah, he’s a big guy and he’s very fit. Okay.

 

Speaker 1 54:17

Okay. Yeah. All right. So he could potentially carry a body. He’s not, and he could potentially lift the 250 pounds. It’s possible. Okay. All right. I’m just, it’s not, it’s not impossible. Gotcha. It’s unlikely, but it’s not.

 

Speaker 3 54:28

of the realm of possibility.

 

Speaker 1 54:29

But the coroner is now disputing what the police’s case is.

 

Speaker 3 54:35

Yeah, so the prosecution hires a criminologist, and they’re like, the criminologist will put this whole arrest and will show that all evidence points to him, and the criminologist does their investigation, which takes quite a while, and they’re like, it’s definitely not him.

 

Speaker 2 54:52

Oh, yeah.

 

Speaker 1 54:53

Wow, really? Yeah. That’s crazy. And also a great time to take a quick break. And we’re back with more vacation.

 

Speaker 3 55:05

Now, during all this, and Kim, you can speak to this a little more, like, so we’re at the point where Bruce is in jail, there’s all kinds of motives that would indicate he’d killed his wife. There’s also a problem with some of the evidence.

 

Speaker 3 55:17

But Kim, the sisters at this point and the family, her family, are basically like, they’re putting on the pressure, they’re convinced that he did it.

 

Speaker 2 55:28

Now they are convinced of his guilt and they were very vocal.

 

Speaker 1 55:32

I got to be honest, I mean, maybe I’m jumping ahead, but it feels like, like in my head, I’m like, the Mexican cops who came and asked for money to not blame him right now, there are suspects in my head, they killed her, went to him, tried to try to get paid and they were like, we’ll frame the fuck out of you.

 

Speaker 1 55:50

That’s an interesting theory. We’ll frame the fuck out of you. That’s the first time we’ve all heard that theory. That’s good.

 

Speaker 3 55:55

I like it.

 

Speaker 1 55:55

I can’t tell if you’re being facetious or not. No, no, no. That’s really interesting.

 

Speaker 4 56:00

Thank you for watching.

 

Speaker 2 56:02

Yeah, but her sisters were pretty convinced of his guilt. And they could do interviews.

 

Speaker 1 56:08

There were, yeah. There’s such strong motivational evidence. That’s the thing.

 

Speaker 3 56:13

Well, they’re bringing up all that, like his, you know.

 

Speaker 2 56:16

Mentality

 

Speaker 3 56:17

spending money on mistresses the fighting

 

Speaker 1 56:20

Has her infidelity ever come up?

 

Speaker 3 56:22

Not from the sisters.

 

Speaker 1 56:23

No, I’m just saying if they’re, you know, there’s a history and pattern of both of them cheating. He’s worse though. He’s a worse cheater.

 

Speaker 2 56:34

Well, I think it felt like his infidelity was a full on relationship. In fact, yeah, that’s a couple of.

 

Speaker 3 56:41

It’s referred to, his is referred to more as an affair, and hers are just… Dalliances? Yes, it’s the 17th century princes from the next town. Try as they might. So yeah, so the sisters are just like really beating the drum that he did it, which you know, just adds more complication because if you think about what do the Mexican authorities not want in this case?

 

Speaker 3 57:05

What do they not want the outcome to be?

 

Speaker 2 57:07

They don’t want the outcome to be that some Brando could have done this. Right. I think he was talking to me.

 

Speaker 1 57:15

No, at all pace. But to your point, yes, that’s exactly what I was going to say. You don’t want people to feel unsafe coming to Cancun and that something bad, you will get murdered by an outsider. Not just murder.

 

Speaker 1 57:26

Not just murder.

 

Speaker 2 57:27

interested in having a tidy conclusion to this murder.

 

Speaker 3 57:32

And the salary of every single person working in Mexico, in this case, is essentially paid by hospitality, right? And here you have a case, it’s not just in Cancun, but at like a very nice, luxury, all -inclusive resort, right?

 

Speaker 3 57:46

And so the last, yeah, the last thing you want is, hey, come to Cancun where some random person might kill you while you’re out at night, walking around your resort.

 

Speaker 1 57:53

But the resort did remove metal poles from all the rooms. So they want the Mexican police and the thought, everybody in Mexico wants this to be him. Yes.

 

Speaker 3 58:03

It’s not anything they wanted, but it’s better for Cancun if it’s him and not a random occurrence. Okay, so the prosecutors after the criminologist says there’s no way it’s him, they’re like you know that actually that criminologist is terrible.

 

Speaker 2 58:23

He’s terrible, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

 

Speaker 3 58:27

And they’re like, we’re hiring a new criminologist. So they hire a new criminologist who’s like, oh, it was definitely him. So Bruce’s attorneys are like, all right, so the prosecutors are criminologist shopping.

 

Speaker 3 58:41

Why don’t we hire someone? The defense attorneys for Bruce, this guy, attorney Ken Chino, he hires a guy named Jose Jesus Zapeda Beltares, who is a very well -known investigator criminologist in Mexico.

 

Speaker 3 58:56

And he’s known to be very honest and fair. And this guy actually comes to- He’s the one in Mexico known to be honest and fair. He’s the one guy. Beltares goes to Ken Chino, the attorney, and to Bruce and says, I’m gonna tell you, my reputation is this, and I’m gonna say this to you guys, do not hire me unless you’re prepared, for if I determine that your guy is guilty, I’m telling the court, I’m telling everybody you’re guilty.

 

Speaker 3 59:19

So if you’re okay with that outcome, hire me. If not, then don’t hire me. Oh, wow. So they hire him. He finds no connection at all to Bruce, right? He says, not only that, but I believe that, he says I believe that she was killed by two people, based on everything he examines.

 

Speaker 3 59:39

And I think there are people who are familiar with the hotel property. He also says, based on, unfortunately, circumstantial evidence, he believes it started as a sexual assault and escalated to murder.

 

Speaker 3 59:50

Oh, God, okay. That she was assaulted on her way back.

 

Speaker 2 59:53

This is where DNA would have come in very handy. Super handy.

 

Speaker 3 59:57

The Mexican authorities are like, he’s like, so let’s get the DNA. And they’re like, we either lost it or misplaced it, but we don’t have that anymore. No rape kit was done, nothing. So there’s no DNA at all.

 

Speaker 3 01:00:13

So the judge is like, okay, so I got two criminologists from the prosecution. One says he did it, one says he didn’t. I’ve got this criminologist from the defense who says he didn’t do it. No way, Jose.

 

Speaker 3 01:00:27

No way. That’s actually the name of his company. I know. So the judge says, I’m gonna get another criminologist.

 

Speaker 1 01:00:37

Oh my God. What a boon for criminologists right?

 

Speaker 3 01:00:41

this case. So the judge actually hires another guy and this guy said nothing, three to one.

 

Speaker 2 01:00:49

Yeah. No.

 

Speaker 1 01:00:49

four out of five criminologists say and they even

 

Speaker 3 01:00:54

Do they even found blood? There was like blood in the hotel room. Right, and they found-

 

Speaker 2 01:00:57

that it wasn’t connected to her. Her, yeah, or him. Right, or him.

 

Speaker 1 01:01:02

And then… Is it random blood? Yes.

 

Speaker 3 01:01:04

Pretty much. Welcome to Cancun. Apparently, if you examine any hotel room, you will find random clothes. Oh, I think so, right, right. It’s like one of those tiny specks of blood. It’s like, who knows how it got there.

 

Speaker 3 01:01:13

Right.

 

Speaker 2 01:01:14

Yeah, yeah, there’s just DNA, it’s a hotbed.

 

Speaker 3 01:01:17

So, you know, it’s a tricky thing because now we’re at a point where like, you know, there is a woman, this man’s wife, she’s, she’s dead. They were fighting. There was insurance money at stake. There is this fair.

 

Speaker 3 01:01:28

So all signs point to him. Like your gut says he did it, but then there’s all this evidence.

 

Speaker 2 01:01:36

This crazy thing called evidence.

 

Speaker 3 01:01:38

And even the prosecution, so eventually this thing gets to trial and the prosecution even calls a witness about the footprints that were found near the well where she was dropped in. Remember those footprints were also used as probable cause to get him extradited.

 

Speaker 3 01:01:53

The prosecution’s witness testifies on the stand that the dirt that’s on Bruce’s shoes definitely does not match that area and that his shoe size definitely doesn’t match the footprints. This is the prosecution witness.

 

Speaker 3 01:02:05

Right. Okay. That’s right. Yeah. So I started on this one like he did it and the more I kind of was, you know, and the more you get into the evidence, you’re like, huh, unless he.

 

Speaker 2 01:02:17

It just really felt like they did not have, with everything that was coming back with the evidence and the testimony, they didn’t have enough to conclusively say, oh yeah, he did this.

 

Speaker 3 01:02:31

The other interesting thing is remember the restaurant employees at the resort who saw them arguing, they said, Oh yeah, we saw those guys arguing.

 

Speaker 2 01:02:37

That was found to not be true. Not be true.

 

Speaker 3 01:02:41

of the restaurant employees, Bruce, they’re like, and her, they showed like a picture, and they’re like, oh no, that wasn’t the guy we saw. We’re not sure if that was her, but that’s definitely not the guy we saw.

 

Speaker 3 01:02:51

So that wasn’t even true. And the family that was below them, the ones who complained about the noise that was used also as circumstantial evidence for probable cause, the police never spoke to them, never took a statement.

 

Speaker 3 01:03:03

But you’re gonna say they were deaf. I wish that’s what I said.

 

Speaker 2 01:03:13

God well on March 12th 2015 he would be convicted of murder what

 

Speaker 1 01:03:21

Wait, what the fuck is going on?

 

Speaker 2 01:03:24

and sentenced to 12 years.

 

Speaker 3 01:03:27

How? Josh is, Josh is, Josh is like literally like looking so, what is your question about all this? How is he sentence or why is it only 12 years? Right.

 

Speaker 1 01:03:40

He’s already been in jail for how many years at this point?

 

Speaker 2 01:03:44

She’s pretty much been in jail since 2010, in one way or another. It started off in jail in Los Angeles when she was picked up by the Marshalls in November of 2010. She’s pretty much been in some form of detention since that time.

 

Speaker 1 01:04:02

Is this a jury? Is this a trial by jury or a trial by judge?

 

Speaker 2 01:04:05

It’s a trial by judge.

 

Speaker 3 01:04:06

I saw nothing ever mentioning a jury.

 

Speaker 2 01:04:08

Yeah, no, and it’s interesting, of course, their system is different and it wasn’t determined by a jury but by a judge.

 

Speaker 3 01:04:18

So a couple of things struck me here. I’m like, A, so after reading all the evidence and stuff, and then I get to like, and he was convicted, you’re like, exactly that reaction. Like, wait, what? So let’s hold on that for a second.

 

Speaker 3 01:04:30

Because the other part of that, that I was like, wait, what was 12 years? Like you can murder. I know people in New York who are in jail for selling weed for longer than 12 years. Exactly. Like what?

 

Speaker 3 01:04:40

Like not anymore. Not anymore. But yes, that’s true. Yeah. So I looked up, I was like, all right, let me do a little research on this. So the Mexican rules on murder sentencing are absolutely wild. Okay.

 

Speaker 3 01:04:53

So in Mexico, if you murder someone during a fight, you can be sentenced up to 12 years, up to 12, up to 12 years. So like, intentionally or inadvertently, if you are having fisticuffs with somebody, some kind of physical fight.

 

Speaker 3 01:05:07

Right.

 

Speaker 1 01:05:07

12 years does it have to be both people fighting like if you just want to kill somebody and then you just start yelling and Making it seem like a fight

 

Speaker 3 01:05:15

No, it has to be best people. Best people, okay. If you murder a homeowner while invading their home for a robbery, 30 to 60 years. Okay. But then they have this other interesting one, where I was like, this kind of is a wild twist on homicide laws.

 

Speaker 3 01:05:31

So they have a rule, one of their laws is that if you murder someone while you’re mourning or in justified anger or sadness, two to eight years. So I’m gonna give you an example of this. It’s gotta be a bad day.

 

Speaker 3 01:05:46

Well, it’s gotta be a bad day. So I’ll give you an example. I was like, well, give me, I needed like an example of this. So there was a guy, I think he was a professional boxer or some kind of athlete, but his niece, his little niece, was like four or five years old, was the victim of child molestation by someone who ran a daycare center who had a history of sexual offenses.

 

Speaker 3 01:06:08

When that came out, he was so enraged and upset that he went and murdered this person. That falls under the murder during morning anger or sadness rule.

 

Speaker 1 01:06:17

Or the fuck that guy rule

 

Speaker 3 01:06:19

It was also known as the fuck that guy wrote, yeah. So anyways, they also have this other rule that in Mexico, also a crazy rule, that if you behave well during your sentence, as long as you behave, what’s the word, exemplary or exemplary behavior, you only have to serve, you get to be released after serving exactly 60% of your sentence.

 

Speaker 3 01:06:38

Okay. So he was sentenced to 12 years for the murder. He was very well behaved and was released to 60% mark, which is seven and a half years. Got it.

 

Speaker 1 01:06:50

So just to recap if you want to kill somebody in Mexico, do it after something as bad has happened to you Well the bad fight with them

 

Speaker 3 01:07:03

What’s the window of the morning? The thing is, the morning has to be related to the murder. So like, you can’t, like the guy who was upset about. Oh, you can’t say like, my mom died and then killed somebody.

 

Speaker 3 01:07:15

Yeah, like the guy who was enraged about this horrible person who you can’t just go kill someone else. Right. So it has to be connected in some way. I got you. So if someone killed, like if someone killed your, your.

 

Speaker 1 01:07:27

So, nope, bad juju from you.

 

Speaker 3 01:07:31

Okay. Okay. So back to the question of like, why was he, why was he convicted?

 

Speaker 2 01:07:37

him. You know, it was interesting. I was really surprised that he would have been convicted with such shoddy evidence.

 

Speaker 1 01:07:49

One criminologist out does three, including the most honest criminologist in Mexico.

 

Speaker 2 01:07:55

But it was rather shocking. And it’s not to say, I mean, you don’t know whether he did it or not, because you’re not there. So you can’t 100% say.

 

Speaker 1 01:08:08

Okay, so is this where this ends, or did they ever come up with anything else, or… Well…

 

Speaker 2 01:08:14

Well, they don’t come up with anything, but he is released under the 60% rule right and is able to go home.

 

Speaker 3 01:08:24

Well, he goes home and what was interesting to me, because I thought the story was going to go, he goes home and then gets charged in LA. Right. But he doesn’t, because I think the LA, I think the justice system here was like, there’s just no, like, not that there’s not evidence, it’s like all evidence points to he didn’t murder her.

 

Speaker 2 01:08:43

And it just wasn’t enough to say that he did. There wasn’t anything really. There was nothing really. No, it was all hearsay. Yeah. But also a lot of wrong.

 

Speaker 1 01:08:54

No, actually, I wasn’t sure.

 

Speaker 3 01:08:56

But it was actually wrong right bad bad evidence. I think now there’s like Adam You just said you know he didn’t there’s nothing that indicates that this man Murdered this woman right himself now. There is there’s the question of like did he?

 

Speaker 3 01:09:11

Arrange for it right was he involved somehow and I thought okay again Maybe like again to me it it just felt like a big jump

 

Speaker 1 01:09:24

What’s your price for doing

 

Speaker 2 01:09:25

Well, even if he did, let’s say for the sake of argument, he did hire somebody. That certainly was not from anything I’ve read, an avenue that was even explored.

 

Speaker 3 01:09:36

Yeah. But I did think about it. And the sisters actually… Are they conjoined? Because they’re always seemed to be together. They are. They’re together all the time. Okay. I just wondered. They’re actually nuns.

 

Speaker 3 01:09:50

Right. They’re like witches. They just keep showing up together. So they were like, you know, in this whole trip, he arranged this whole thing to do this. The whole thing was his idea. And they’re like, look, he arranged everything, blah, blah, blah.

 

Speaker 3 01:10:04

Premeditated. Premeditated, exactly. However, they looked into that and they found that she actually had… Not only had she ranged the tickets in the hotel, but that they were originally supposed to go to Dubai.

 

Speaker 3 01:10:20

And there was something went wrong with Dubai at the last minute. And she was like, I got it, honey. I’ll… I don’t know if I said honey, but I got it, asshole. Whatever she was saying. I got it. But how he sounds so much nicer.

 

Speaker 3 01:10:30

The trip in Mexico seems to be what happened. So you can’t even say that he… Nothing points to that he could have pre -planned any of this.

 

Speaker 1 01:10:40

Maybe he’s really crafty like in his emails to his lover. He’s like man. I hope just Hope we never go to Cancun because that place sucks. Never want to go there. She’s like, fuck you. We’re going to Cancun

 

Speaker 3 01:10:49

Well, I even went a step further on this. I was like, I was like, Ken Kuhn just seems like the kind of place where if anything bad happens to a tourist, you blame anyone but a rent, like it can’t be rent.

 

Speaker 3 01:11:01

Anything but Ken Kuhn. So here’s the thing, forget about Ken Kuhn. Let’s just talk about the Moon Palace Resort for a second. Let’s just focus on that. Did I share this with you?

 

Speaker 2 01:11:11

with you. No, but I know what you’re going to say. You know where we’re going with this? I know where you

 

Speaker 3 01:11:14

going with it. So this happened in 2010, right? And as the only honest criminologist in Mexico said, he thinks it was done- Not the only, the most. The most. He thinks it was done by two people who worked at the hotel and then it started as sexual assault and escalated to murder.

 

Speaker 3 01:11:32

In 2007 at the Moon Palace Resort, a Canadian guest fell out of the second story balcony that they were staying in and died. Jeff Taos. However, the family says that’s absolutely not even remotely what happened.

 

Speaker 3 01:11:48

He did not fall out the window. He was actually beaten to death by people that worked at the hotel.

 

Speaker 2 01:11:53

and thrown off his third floor balcony.

 

Speaker 3 01:11:57

June 2009, Julia Howard, a 77 -year -old grandmother from Scotland, who’s staying there with her family missing, they find her with a throat slit, three miles away in the jungle, like deep in the jungle, the hotel and the authorities say the family is negligent and it’s their fault that she wandered into the jungle and died and the family is like, uh, that’s absolute and seems correctly.

 

Speaker 3 01:12:30

It’s an absurd thing to say. Our grandma Julia would never even leave the property, let alone go into the jungle. Oh my goodness. April 30th, 2010, not even a month after Monica’s murder, a young woman is staying at the moon palace Emily Hamilton for her brother’s wedding.

 

Speaker 3 01:12:49

There is an attempted sexual assault on her by a hotel employee. Her father says we begged the local police to investigate and it was never investigated.

 

Speaker 1 01:13:01

Oh, I thought you were going to say they put it on Bruce too.

 

Speaker 3 01:13:04

One month after that, in May, sorry Moon Palace, this episode was brought to you by the Star Castle Resort, definitely not the Moon Palace. One month after that, I’ll stop after this one. This is fascinating, I’m kind of loving this.

 

Speaker 3 01:13:22

One month after that, in May 2010, there’s a family staying at the hotel, their children are staying in a separate room. After midnight, two hotel employees enter the children’s room. The children begin screaming.

 

Speaker 3 01:13:36

The parents are woken up and come in, and the demand an investigation which goes nowhere. The hotel makes up some weird thing, like they were checking on something and the parents were like, nobody’s checking on anything in her children’s room after midnight.

 

Speaker 1 01:13:51

their hiring practices are not the best yet. One star for the moon palace. The moon palace resort.

 

Speaker 3 01:14:00

Shit, I mean look, all these things sound like, the common thread to all these, they happen at the Minpals, but even more than that, is that in each of these cases, the investigators and the hotel either don’t investigate at all or concoct a story that it was the fault of the person, that nothing bad happens here.

 

Speaker 3 01:14:20

Right, the common denominator is very solved of responsibility. I don’t know. I don’t know, they don’t listen to employees’ names. But I’m reading this and I’m like, oh my God. Like, don’t go to, don’t go to, don’t go there.

 

Speaker 3 01:14:34

Jesus.

 

Speaker 2 01:14:35

Yeah, do we know anything about I cuz I couldn’t really find anything about his life I know he’s back he was living with his mom but it didn’t feel like he’s resuming his professional life.

 

Speaker 3 01:14:50

No, I have my understanding from the little I could gather was he was pretty much shut out from, yeah, from the community from the TV world. He like the problem is he was whether we think he was guilty or not, whether the evidence totally fails to show that he was guilty, he was actually found guilty, right?

 

Speaker 1 01:15:09

But if it was here, he probably would be alright.

 

Speaker 3 01:15:13

I don’t think that a jury here would have found him guilty based on this evidence. To be honest, I’m not even sure the prosecutors would have brought the charges. I think that the only reason he was extradited is because of the agreement between Mexico and the U .S.

 

Speaker 3 01:15:28

that you have to have probable cause.

 

Speaker 1 01:15:30

This is like improbable cause like these are all crazy

 

Speaker 3 01:15:34

But at the time, before it became clear what the evidence was, on paper, it did seem…

 

Speaker 1 01:15:40

Yes, for a second, I was thinking.

 

Speaker 3 01:15:42

We all were. It seemed probable, and he had motive, and they had like, oh, there was foot, there was, you know, footprints, and they might, they seem like they might match his. Also behavior.

 

Speaker 1 01:15:51

I mean, I know we don’t want to criticize the behavior of somebody who’s going through something, but like, oh, waiting till the morning, oh, she might be a night owl, and you know, and then like not taking the phone feels like the, you know, I don’t know, why wouldn’t you take your phone?

 

Speaker 1 01:16:08

You’re in a strange country, you don’t, you know.

 

Speaker 3 01:16:12

at the affairs and the fact they used against him, the fact that he went back to the states with his license. And he was like, I just was going home to see my kids. Nobody said, you know, there was no legal obligation.

 

Speaker 3 01:16:22

I wasn’t under suspicion.

 

Speaker 1 01:16:24

All right. So before we get into the takeaway, let’s take a quick break. All right.

 

Speaker 2 01:16:30

All right, we’re back. Guys, what is the takeaway?

 

Speaker 3 01:16:35

I don’t know. This one’s weird for me because it’s such a checklist of like he did it and then you or you understood you could make the argument for why he you think he did it. Right. But then you start to look at the evidence and it’s like

 

Speaker 2 01:16:50

But would’ve, could’ve.

 

Speaker 3 01:16:51

would’ve could’ve.

 

Speaker 2 01:16:52

Doesn’t mean.

 

Speaker 3 01:16:53

Right. And then the evidence starts to unravel, like the blood doesn’t match. The arguments weren’t real. Right. The footprints don’t match. There’s no, all the three of the four criminologists say…

 

Speaker 1 01:17:04

take away is that criminology is whatever you want it to be.

 

Speaker 3 01:17:07

Yeah.

 

Speaker 2 01:17:08

My takeaway is if you are having marital problems, maybe don’t go on vacation together. Oh, just work it out at home. Yeah, just work that shit out at home. Yeah, just, you know what? It just doesn’t feel like any good comes from a troubled marriage going on vacation, a couple in trouble and fighting, maybe no vacation, maybe couples counseling.

 

Speaker 1 01:17:35

That is such a great point, Cammy. That is very, yeah, like everybody thinks, like, right, this trip is gonna be magical. We’re gonna rekindle or whatever, and we’re gonna, yeah.

 

Speaker 3 01:17:46

It’s the same as when people are like, yeah, things are a little rough. But remember how great it was when we had that first kid. Let’s have another kid. No. That’ll solve it. Yeah. Uh, let’s get a dog.

 

Speaker 3 01:17:55

No, Kim, that’s a, that’s a good takeaway. Yeah. It’s just, I just feel, you know, I mean, this one, like, it’s such a fact. You should go.

 

Speaker 2 01:18:03

on separately.

 

Speaker 3 01:18:05

Right. Exactly. Like far away.

 

Speaker 2 01:18:08

for each other. Right. Maybe Zoom for an hour. Yeah. That’s a good point.

 

Speaker 1 01:18:13

That’s a good one.

 

Speaker 3 01:18:15

I mean this one also like I just I think with what got lost for me because there’s so many twists and turns and Evidence and this that you know and like the extradition. Okay, what got lost for me in this was like her, you know Yeah, like she was a she was like this really Like she was people loved her.

 

Speaker 3 01:18:33

She was like this ball of energy this like everyone loved her at this there at her restaurant Zambuba, she really built this herself, you know, she was one of these like Vibrant fun people that just everybody loved

 

Speaker 2 01:18:46

I feel sorry for the kids, though. I was going to say, I feel.

 

Speaker 1 01:18:49

The kids got raised by the ants.

 

Speaker 2 01:18:50

The parents had supervised custody, I understand, but the children were with Bruce’s parents. But yeah, I feel sorry for the kids.

 

Speaker 3 01:19:00

The kids, I feel sorry for the sisters. I feel sorry for him. But the kids. I got to say it. I don’t really.

 

Speaker 2 01:19:06

care about. I care about the kids. Oh, because you cheated? No, because I think like they’re just fucked. Like they’re the innocents. Oh, well, of course. They’re, you know, it’s like, you know, the adults, you can, there is a world where the adults should fucking adult.

 

Speaker 2 01:19:23

Right. But there isn’t a world where the kids can do anything but just be the kids. And they’re kind of just forgotten. Right. And just like, okay, well, the kids, the kids, they just get shuffled around and families fighting over them.

 

Speaker 2 01:19:40

And it just is always, I just hope that they’re okay.

 

Speaker 1 01:19:44

feel bad for survivor. It wasn’t the same once he went to jail. All right, we’ll be right back.

 

Speaker 3 01:19:52

yeah I listen I landed on I don’t think he did this I think he ended up losing a lot everything yeah everything he lost his wife

 

Speaker 1 01:20:03

If you’re having an affair and you say you’re gonna break it off, you gotta break it off.

 

Speaker 3 01:20:06

Well, that’s a good takeaway. First of all, maybe another takeaway is like, if you guys are cheating multiple times, multiple like entangled emotional affairs, maybe you just shouldn’t stay together.

 

Speaker 3 01:20:18

Not that that would have… First, no, but that’s true. But just as a general thing, like maybe that’s a sign of either you need to be in couples counseling and work it out, or maybe you’re just not supposed to be together, but…

 

Speaker 2 01:20:30

that these kids, maybe think about, okay, we got to raise these kids, we got to get them out of our house. Well, what are we doing here? And what will be the most conducive way in doing that? How can we create the most healthy environment in which to do this?

 

Speaker 2 01:20:46

Which isn’t always- As a couple living separately. Yes.

 

Speaker 3 01:20:49

I was gonna say, people often finish that sentence by going, well, we just have to stay together and model a traditional parental unit. That is the worst fucking idea. I cannot tell you strongly enough, if you’re not supposed to, if you’re feeling like you’re not supposed to be there, do not stay together for the kids.

 

Speaker 3 01:21:05

That is, the kids, it is the worst thing you can do for the kids. The kids do not wanna see modeled. I’m not speaking from experience here. The kids don’t. The last model for a week,

 

Speaker 1 01:21:17

Please tell us what we should be doing with our kids.

 

Speaker 3 01:21:22

Well, you’re the child of divorce. I’m the child of divorce and parents who, you know, I think in retrospect, probably from when I was a little kid, things were just not going to be ever great. But I do think my parents stayed together to raise us.

 

Speaker 3 01:21:35

And I think they would have been much happier people in the longer term if they had separated when we were younger, rather than like doing the like, we’ll stay together for the kids kind of thing. But I think also people make the best decision they can with whatever their own life experiences in the moment.

 

Speaker 3 01:21:53

So I don’t think, you know, you can’t really, it’s not even like a pointing fingers thing. I’m just saying, like, I think that there’s a reflexive, like, let’s stay together. Even the idea that let’s stay together for the kids and let’s take the kids on our rekindling, healing vacation in Cancun is kind of nuts.

 

Speaker 3 01:22:10

Like, having the kids there is not going to help you rekindle.

 

Speaker 2 01:22:15

No, it’s going to make it worse, in fact, because kids are stressful. And like I said, just know, just know.

 

Speaker 1 01:22:25

All right. All right. I think, uh, I think it’s time to put this one to bed. I hope that was the appropriate amount of Kim. There’s never enough. Yeah, please don’t tell us less.

 

Speaker 3 01:22:39

That’s insane. We should take their Apple podcast privileges away.

 

Speaker 1 01:22:43

Thank you for listening and we’ll catch you on the next one. See you guys. Bye.